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New Zeiss Victory SF !!!!!! (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Chosun Juan
- Start date
bh46118
Well-known member
I've harped enough on here about my Minox BP that I'm surprised the moderators haven't thrown me off of the forum. :-O I recently compared them to the Kowa Genesis 8.5X44, and to my eyes the Kowa didn't stand a chance.
Except that you could do the same with a Porro, probably at significantly lower price, so that we could then in fact afford them
Cheers,
Holger
I think porro's are dead ,as far as, any new technology being applied to them. That is obvious. Kind of like "Dust in the Wind". Sorry Brock. This new Zeiss has killer specs and I know Zeiss does not like being 2nd place to Swarovski when it comes to optics. This binocular is going to be the new best.Except that you could do the same with a Porro, probably at significantly lower price, so that we could then in fact afford them
Cheers,
Holger
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Yes ,but the view of each bird is going to be really sweet.
ticl2184
Well-known member
This thread has gone in warp 10.
Just read the whole thing... Feel like I've just read a book.
Is a 42 mm bino which such a genuinely large FOV for both models technically possible???
And no rolling globe effect???
Surely it can't be done, or it already would have.
I did significant testing of the Zeiss 8x32 FL vs the 8x32 SV.
To my eyes the Zeiss FOV was about 15 percent less than then SV. Even though there should only be 1metre in it... Ie 140m for the FL and 141m for the SV.
Additionally I notice a 32mm version of the SF will be on offer in the future...
Are we looking at a 8x32 SF with a FOV of 150m plus ?
Cheers Tim
Just read the whole thing... Feel like I've just read a book.
Is a 42 mm bino which such a genuinely large FOV for both models technically possible???
And no rolling globe effect???
Surely it can't be done, or it already would have.
I did significant testing of the Zeiss 8x32 FL vs the 8x32 SV.
To my eyes the Zeiss FOV was about 15 percent less than then SV. Even though there should only be 1metre in it... Ie 140m for the FL and 141m for the SV.
Additionally I notice a 32mm version of the SF will be on offer in the future...
Are we looking at a 8x32 SF with a FOV of 150m plus ?
Cheers Tim
There has been no official confirmation of a Victory class 32 mm from Zeiss, and from what Mr Jensen said (I paraphrase " we need to get this 42mm settled-in before we start thinking about 32s") it doesn't sound like it will be this year.
Lee
ticl2184;3005877 I did significant testing of the Zeiss 8x32 FL vs the 8x32 SV. To my eyes the Zeiss FOV was about 15 percent less than then SV. Even though there should only be 1metre in it... Ie 140m for the FL and 141m for the SV. Cheers Tim[/QUOTE said:
brocknroller
porromaniac
Well, after seeing a photo of your hands, I can understand why!
Lee's hands
Live long and prosper,
Mr. Brock
brocknroller
porromaniac
Except that you could do the same with a Porro, probably at significantly lower price, so that we could then in fact afford them
Cheers,
Holger
Ah, true, but then they wouldn't be able to justify the fat profit margins.
Thanks for doing "Distortion of the new Zeiss Victory SF" study. Great stuff!
As Lee mentioned, it graphically shows why less people are bothered by RB in the 8x32 SV EL model than in the 8.5x model.
It also shows that some people who are sensitive to RB in the 8.5 SV EL might be able to use the SF without problems. Although the price is steep, if they could afford an SV EL, they could afford an SF.
I'm guessing if you added the ZR 7x36 ED2 to your sample group, it would be hugging the K=0 line. It has so much distortion that the straight road ahead of me looked like it was in a ditch. Most pincushion I've seen in a bin.
I'm also curious to see where the Kowa Genesis series fits in the scheme.
I hope that Arek from allbinos reads your study and understands that k = 0.7 is the target to shoot for, not 0.85, and that he scores his results accordingly, instead of merely deducting points for distortion.
Brock
Torview
Well-known member
What new technology do they need ?
You have to spend many times the cost of an EII on a roof to get near its performance, and most of that money went on solving problems intrinsic to sp prisms.
Honestly its like taking a Donkey and spending a fortune and many years trying to breed it into a race horse.
SzimiStyle
The Shorebird Addict
Probably for not too long! I am sure something is happening behind the scenes in Wetzlar's Red Dot company, just to mention one of top players.
brocknroller
porromaniac
Curiously, some people, Henry, for example, find the porro view unnatural! I can understand that at close focus where the view from both barrels can overlap and you have to cross your eyes slightly to stay focused on an object, but at medium to longer distance, a porro's view, to me, looks more natural than a roof's.
I don't recall Optolyth offering an 8x30 model in its current line of Alpins, so I went to deutscheoptik.com to make sure, and I found they no longer sell the Alpin series. That curious since the owner of Deutche Optik was the one who persuaded the "new" (then) owner to reissue the classic porro series. They still carry the Royal roofs.
I tried an Opto Alpin last year was not that impressed. I think it was the 10x40 model. It was a lot smaller and lighter than I had expected and the waffle pattern rubber armoring was very nice, but optically, I'd have to say that even the Nikon Action EX was better, and it costs a fraction of what they want for the Alpins. It didn't have any major distortions, b but the resolution wasn't as good as I would expect from a fairly expensive porro.
I've also bought roofs over the years and tried others including Swaros, and while there were a couple I really liked - 8x32 EL WB and 10x42 SLC-HD - the SE and EII are at least as good, IMO, and provide a way better bang for the buck.
But in the winter and for "iffy' weather where there's a mist or light rain, I wouldn't mind having a good quality roof to use with impunity. The problem is that the SE and EII spoiled me. To get as good a view, I'd have to spend multiple times more.
Brock
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Chosun Juan
Given to Fly
Brock, "graphically" ??! ...... is this to say that parental guidance is recommended !! 8-P
I'd also like to see where the Nikon EDGII places on that distortion chart - nicest "field" characteristics I've seen. If that can be applied intact to a 70 degree AFov, along with all the other goodies I mentioned (on Bruce's best you've seen thread....), then we are really talking! |
|Chosun :gh:
Chosun Juan
Given to Fly
o
Yes, thanks again Holger for doing that study, and also the "How to measure your individual distortion" http://www.holgermerlitz.de/globe/test_distortion.html
Have you done this test Brock? What did you score? Go-rrn .... tell us !! :cat:
I seem to be something just a smidge less than 0.8....
Arek from allbino's would still have to set the bar around this mark, as he's after the holy grail .... A benchmark that may not have been produced symptom free (visible mustachio etc) yet.
It will be interesting to see what field characteristics the SF produces, as well as the actual field width, and ER.
Chosun :gh:
Yes, thanks again Holger for doing that study, and also the "How to measure your individual distortion" http://www.holgermerlitz.de/globe/test_distortion.html
Have you done this test Brock? What did you score? Go-rrn .... tell us !! :cat:
I seem to be something just a smidge less than 0.8....
Arek from allbino's would still have to set the bar around this mark, as he's after the holy grail .... A benchmark that may not have been produced symptom free (visible mustachio etc) yet.
It will be interesting to see what field characteristics the SF produces, as well as the actual field width, and ER.
Chosun :gh:
bh46118
Well-known member
I just looked at the 8.5X44 again this morning. Sharp to near the edge but not like the SV I saw that was sharp completely to the edge. Pincushion is so minor that you would have to be really sensitive in that area for it to matter. Ive seen the latest SV and I own an ED2, so I feel fairly comfortable in my assessment. Globe distortion while panning is not at all pronounced like I noticed in the McKinley. Unfortunately I was so mesmerized by the EL 10X42 SV, I forgot to pan around and experience the famous rolling ball.
NDhunter
Experienced observer
BH:
This is a Zeiss SF thread, so it does seem to have some discussion of
flat field optics. The globe distortion does not seem to bother very many
users, I suspect less than 10%, there are no firm numbers on this issue.
You seem disappointed that you did not see the rolling ball in the SV, but
saw it in the Mckinley, now I don't know what to make of that. :eek!:
Binocular mfrs. would not be making these unless it is a positive development in binocular design. They all have tested the feature.
Any seller can check the blanks on the order form and have one made in China, and have it shortly.
Zeiss has made the decision to offer this feature, and I do like that.
Most binoculars users love the wide undistorted to the edge view, and that is a progression in optics, as I see it.
Jerry
Pinewood
New York correspondent
Tim,
My attention has been caught! That would match my 60 year-old 8x30 Leitz Binuxit.
Happy bird watching,
Arthur
Holger Merlitz
Well-known member
Hi Jerry,
I have used the 8x32 EDG and I have experienced a globe effect (not too disturbing though). Problem is, in order to calculate the relative distortion or the k-value, I need exact specs for the apparent angle of view, and Nikon, like most other manufacturers, don't tell them (Nikon just use their standard ISO formula to calculate the apparent angle, and this formula always yields zero distortion and k=1). Only Swaro, and recently Zeiss with their SF seem to specify the correct apparent fields which I need for my analysis.
Cheers,
Holger
NDhunter
Experienced observer
Holger:
Thanks for the reply, I did not think you would post an article and test findings with numbers just using mfr. provided information.
Distortion and the globe effect are complex issues. I thought these would
be hands on evaluations you have completed.
It is good you have tried to clear this up.
Jerry
bh46118
Well-known member
I happen to to have on hand, and looked through the Kowa Genesis this very morning. So I thought I might respond as best I can, maybe not that well since I'm just a high school graduate from central Indiana :brains:, to Brock's curiosity about their field performance. If you go back and read what I said about the SV more carefully, you will understand that I DID NOT think to pan around with them to check for rolling ball, so therefore I don't know if I could see it in them or not. I had the McKinley for over a month,the SV for five minutes in a parking lot. Have you made it your life's work to nitpick everything that comes before you ?:-O
