the perfect multi-functional camera?? (1 Viewer)

Jhanlon · Jun 15, 2015

I have been using a combination of DSLR (Canon 1000D with a Canon 100-400mm zoom) and digiscoping (basic compact with a Leica APO Televid 65) both with fairly cheap cameras and I am due an upgrade on both fronts. In addition, I would like a compact bridge/ superzoom model for when I can’t carry a bulky camera & lens such as long walks with a ‘scope & tripod!

My question is…is there a camera that can do all 3 – use interchangeable lenses for DSLR, digiscope and perform on its own as a superzoom?

I don’t think there is, but wanted to check. But are there any good models that will do 2 out of the 3?

Thanks for any advice

Zackiedawg · Jun 15, 2015

Probably the closest bet would be something like Nikon's One series, or slightly less so a micro-4:3 camera. Both have larger sensors than P&S models, but slightly less than APS-C sized - the Nikon One has a 2.7x crop factor, so when paired with a 300mm lens for example, it has an equivalent reach of 810mm. And they can be scope-mounted. Micro 4:3 cameras have a 2x crop factor, so not quite as much but can still use a 300mm lens as a 600mm equivalent...and still more compact than most any DSLR. Even the APS-C mirrorless models like Sony E-mount, Fuji X mount, and Samsung NX mount are scopable, interchangeable-lens cameras, with 1.5x crop factors, IQ that matches DSLRs with the same sensor, and will generally be more compact and lighter than DSLRs - certainly so with smaller lenses, less so as the lenses get up to 300mm+. And they are all capable of attaching any DSLR lens via simple adapters (manual focus), with a few even capable of autofocusing through the adapter.

I shoot with a DSLR and mostly with a 150-600mm lens - not exactly small and light. But as a second body, I have been using mirrorless cameras for years now - and my current second birding/wildlife kit is a Sony A6000 paired with a good 70-200mm F4 lens, and if I need more reach, I have a 55-210mm lens with a 1.7x teleextender I can attach. The camera and lens combo weighs in at around 2.9-3Lbs, and less than 12 inches total length - and of course the body is a lot less bulky - so compared to my DSLR it's quite a relief to carry in the extreme tropical heat and humidity down here instead of the big DSLR kit, and still capable of great performance. I particularly wanted a mirrorless camera capable of solid bird-in-flight work, so I needed one with very fast tracking autofocus - there are a few mirrorless models out there with very good tracking at the DSLR level now.

Jhanlon · Jun 15, 2015

Zackiedawg said:
Probably the closest bet would be something like Nikon's One series, or slightly less so a micro-4:3 camera. Both have larger sensors than P&S models, but slightly less than APS-C sized - the Nikon One has a 2.7x crop factor, so when paired with a 300mm lens for example, it has an equivalent reach of 810mm. And they can be scope-mounted. Micro 4:3 cameras have a 2x crop factor, so not quite as much but can still use a 300mm lens as a 600mm equivalent...and still more compact than most any DSLR. Even the APS-C mirrorless models like Sony E-mount, Fuji X mount, and Samsung NX mount are scopable, interchangeable-lens cameras, with 1.5x crop factors, IQ that matches DSLRs with the same sensor, and will generally be more compact and lighter than DSLRs - certainly so with smaller lenses, less so as the lenses get up to 300mm+. And they are all capable of attaching any DSLR lens via simple adapters (manual focus), with a few even capable of autofocusing through the adapter.

I shoot with a DSLR and mostly with a 150-600mm lens - not exactly small and light. But as a second body, I have been using mirrorless cameras for years now - and my current second birding/wildlife kit is a Sony A6000 paired with a good 70-200mm F4 lens, and if I need more reach, I have a 55-210mm lens with a 1.7x teleextender I can attach. The camera and lens combo weighs in at around 2.9-3Lbs, and less than 12 inches total length - and of course the body is a lot less bulky - so compared to my DSLR it's quite a relief to carry in the extreme tropical heat and humidity down here instead of the big DSLR kit, and still capable of great performance. I particularly wanted a mirrorless camera capable of solid bird-in-flight work, so I needed one with very fast tracking autofocus - there are a few mirrorless models out there with very good tracking at the DSLR level now.

Wow, thanks for that detailed response. I need to make a few points. Firstly, I'm a novice with all this camera gear and consistently struggle to get my head round this whole new world and all its jargon. Layman's terms if possible, as my knowledge is cr*p I consider myself a complete beginner!

I reckon I can budget up to £1,000 or so (guess that's about $1200, haven't checked exchange rates!) but I don't want to buy extra equipment unless I can cover it within this budget. So - would any of those models work with my Canon 100-400mm? Are you saying these models will double up with existing DSLR lenses and a 'scope? (but not as a superzoom?) or that they can indeed be used for all 3 functions?

I will buy two cameras if cheap enough if I can get them to cover the range of use I need them for.

Zackiedawg · Jun 15, 2015

You're welcome. If you wanted to keep your current 100-400mm lens, and have it capable of autofocusing, then you'd have to go with one of three options: 1. Get a Canon EOS-M mirrorless model - it has the same APS-C sized sensor as entry-level DSLRs, and via a simple adapter can take all Canon EOS lenses. The camera & adapters would run you in the $500 or under price range. 2. Get a sony E-mount mode, also APS-C sensors, and a Metabones or Kipon autofocus adapter. They will work with autofocus and stability on Canon lenses, but are not very fast at autofocus, so shooting birds in flight would be out of the question. You can get very good models of these cameras like the A6000 for under $500 body-only, or $600 with a kit lens, and add the adapter for $250-350. Or 3. You can go with a Micro 4:3 camera body, and similarly use one of the Kipon/Metabones adapters for Canon lenses. Note that with the Micro 4:3 cameras (Olympus and Panasonic) you can get plenty of models for well within your budget - but some higher end models will exceed your budget. With the Sony or M4:3 cameras, you could get a kit lens and a moderate zoom (ie: 50-200mm) for well within your budget, and still have room to buy adapters for either telescope or scope use, or for Canon lenses.

Mirrorless cameras in general are known for their ability to adopt for use with any lens made - they have super-short registration distances between sensor and lens, shorter than any previous lens mounts made for rangefinder or SLR cameras - so all you need to adapt another manufacturer's lens to these cameras is a 'spacer' ring that places the lens the proper distance to the sensor to focus. Many mirrorless shooters adapt old film SLR and rangefinder lenses from the 1950s through 1990s - all manual focus, manual aperture rings. Newer lens mounts that have autofocus, like current DSLRs, can be adapter too, and some more expensive adapters have been made that incorporate the ability to autofocus and use the lens' stabilization too. As for how well they can 'double up' with DSLR lenses - that tends to be better when you stick to the particular manufacturer. So: When you buy the Nikon Series One mirrorless camera, they have their own adapter that mates it to Nikon DSLR lenses with full functionality...any other lenses you adapt will be missing metering, or autofocus, or aperture control, or something. If you buy a Canon EOS-M mirrorless, their adapter you can buy gives you full functionality with Canon EOS lenses. If you buy a Sony E-mount mirrorless, their adapters you can buy give you full functionality and speed with Sony Alpha or Minolta A-mount DSLR lenses. So while mirrorless cameras can take ANY camera lens from any mount, they tend to always work best with the adapters made for their own manufacturer's lens mounts, to maintain fastest autofocus. Any of them are easy to attach to a scope, as most of these mirrorless mounts have scope mount adapters. There are typically two ways to go with scope adapters...one is if your scope has a removable eyepiece, and typically would be a T-mount for adapting to cameras - you can get a T-mount adapter for your particular mirrorless camera body, and attach the camera directly to the scope via the adapter. Or the other method is to get an adapter that allows you to use the kit lens or a simple prime lens attached to the camera, then mate the lens to the eyepiece via an adapter that attaches to the lens' filter threads.

Hope that helps explain a bit. I think this type of camera can be a good versatile choice if you're looking for something that can attach to bigger, longer lenses when you need it to, shoot with small or prime lenses only when you want to keep it compact and portable, or attach to a spotting scope or telescope for specialty use.

Jhanlon · Jun 16, 2015

Zackiedawg said:
You're welcome. If you wanted to keep your current 100-400mm lens, and have it capable of autofocusing, then you'd have to go with one of three options: 1. Get a Canon EOS-M mirrorless model - it has the same APS-C sized sensor as entry-level DSLRs, and via a simple adapter can take all Canon EOS lenses. The camera & adapters would run you in the $500 or under price range. 2. Get a sony E-mount mode, also APS-C sensors, and a Metabones or Kipon autofocus adapter. They will work with autofocus and stability on Canon lenses, but are not very fast at autofocus, so shooting birds in flight would be out of the question. You can get very good models of these cameras like the A6000 for under $500 body-only, or $600 with a kit lens, and add the adapter for $250-350. Or 3. You can go with a Micro 4:3 camera body, and similarly use one of the Kipon/Metabones adapters for Canon lenses. Note that with the Micro 4:3 cameras (Olympus and Panasonic) you can get plenty of models for well within your budget - but some higher end models will exceed your budget. With the Sony or M4:3 cameras, you could get a kit lens and a moderate zoom (ie: 50-200mm) for well within your budget, and still have room to buy adapters for either telescope or scope use, or for Canon lenses.

Mirrorless cameras in general are known for their ability to adopt for use with any lens made - they have super-short registration distances between sensor and lens, shorter than any previous lens mounts made for rangefinder or SLR cameras - so all you need to adapt another manufacturer's lens to these cameras is a 'spacer' ring that places the lens the proper distance to the sensor to focus. Many mirrorless shooters adapt old film SLR and rangefinder lenses from the 1950s through 1990s - all manual focus, manual aperture rings. Newer lens mounts that have autofocus, like current DSLRs, can be adapter too, and some more expensive adapters have been made that incorporate the ability to autofocus and use the lens' stabilization too. As for how well they can 'double up' with DSLR lenses - that tends to be better when you stick to the particular manufacturer. So: When you buy the Nikon Series One mirrorless camera, they have their own adapter that mates it to Nikon DSLR lenses with full functionality...any other lenses you adapt will be missing metering, or autofocus, or aperture control, or something. If you buy a Canon EOS-M mirrorless, their adapter you can buy gives you full functionality with Canon EOS lenses. If you buy a Sony E-mount mirrorless, their adapters you can buy give you full functionality and speed with Sony Alpha or Minolta A-mount DSLR lenses. So while mirrorless cameras can take ANY camera lens from any mount, they tend to always work best with the adapters made for their own manufacturer's lens mounts, to maintain fastest autofocus. Any of them are easy to attach to a scope, as most of these mirrorless mounts have scope mount adapters. There are typically two ways to go with scope adapters...one is if your scope has a removable eyepiece, and typically would be a T-mount for adapting to cameras - you can get a T-mount adapter for your particular mirrorless camera body, and attach the camera directly to the scope via the adapter. Or the other method is to get an adapter that allows you to use the kit lens or a simple prime lens attached to the camera, then mate the lens to the eyepiece via an adapter that attaches to the lens' filter threads.

Hope that helps explain a bit. I think this type of camera can be a good versatile choice if you're looking for something that can attach to bigger, longer lenses when you need it to, shoot with small or prime lenses only when you want to keep it compact and portable, or attach to a spotting scope or telescope for specialty use.

Great Justin, thanks. You're selling me on the mirrorless camera concept. Just one more question - if I want to stick it in my pocket and use it without a big lens, is there a pocket-sized lens that may have similar reach to a 400 or 500mm? (no doubt at the expense of image quality which i accept would be the sacrifice i need to make as with a bridge camera)?

Has anyone else here had good experiences with this kind of set up?

Zackiedawg · Jun 16, 2015

None of the mirrorless will be able to produce that kind of equivalent reach with a pocketable lens...the larger the sensor, the larger the lens needs to be for long reach. The reason those little pocket cameras can produce 500mm equivalents with tiny, pocketable lenses is because the sensors on those cameras are smaller than a pinky nail on your finger! Even the 1" sensors of the Nikon One series are significantly larger...and the M4:3 are twice that size, APS-C nearly double M4:3. When you go pocketable, the focal length lenses that are compact (pancake or compacting power zoom lenses) will generally be 18-60mm range, rarely anything more. Adding the crop factors of the camera, that would give you roughly 90mm max on APS-C, 120mm on M4:3. The Nikon One's small lens I believe is a 10-30mm, which makes it 81mm equivalent. Anything that gets over 100mm is not going to be 'pocketable' on a mirrorless camera. However, it's worth noting too that the sensor sizes will usually produce good enough quality, and the sensors have high enough resolution, to allow for a pretty significant amount of cropping and still retain very good print quality or viewing quality...and that can make up for some of what you lose in focal reach.

As an example, I do some birding with my A6000 mirrorless, an APS-C sensor with a 1.5x crop factor. I typically will use a 200mm lens, which means I have a 300mm-equivalent reach...this is far less than the 900mm equivalent I can get on my DSLR. But the sensor has 24MP, and pretty good quality, so with the optical quality of the lens, I can safely crop up to 50%, which effectively doubles the focal-length equivalence of the crop to roughly 600mm...and still have enough resolution to print a solid 8x10 or display a high-res shot on a large monitor. It's not a perfect solution, but since the weight is less than half my DSLR, and the size several feet less long, the compromise is worth it for me...though nowhere near pocketable!

For an example, here's a bird standing on the same tree, and me standing in the same spot to shoot - so distance to subject was pretty much identical. With my 16MP DSLR, uncropped, I shot this at 300mm (450mm equivalent):
http://www.pbase.com/zackiedawg/image/158484852/original

They weren't shot on the same day or time, so the lighting is different, but here's my mirrorless camera, 24MP, at 200mm (300mm equivalent), but then cropped after the fact to roughly the same framing and roughly the same 450mm equivalent crop:
http://www.pbase.com/zackiedawg/image/159606156/original

Though I had to crop more on the mirrorless, it retains very good image quality and still leaves plenty of resolution to be printed large or displayed large. Again, the mirrorless kit used here is far from pocketable, but also a good bit lighter and smaller than my DSLR, even with a similar focal length attached - the DSLR is about double in weight and bulk and size compared to the mirrorless body. But I also think that somewhere a compromise needs to be made between DSLR and compact camera, if you want to cover as many bases as possible in one camera. Mirrorless cameras slot in between - generally smaller than any DSLR, and generally bigger than most P&S or compact cameras...but nearly as capable as DSLRs in image quality and low light acuity. The mirrorless range can go from the smallest on the 1" sensor side, to nearly the same size as a DSLR when you go to the full-frame 35mm sensors. For your purpose, the smaller 1" sensors may do just fine...better image quality and focus speed than P&S cameras, still much smaller than DSLRs...and still with the flexibility of interchangeable lenses and scope adaptability...you would just need to accept some compromise in pocketability, at least when you want more reach.

the perfect multi-functional camera?? (1 Viewer)

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