Egretta garzetta ssp in Sumatra (1 Viewer)

Valéry Schollaert · Jan 27, 2019

Hi all,

According to HBW Alive, E. g. nigripes if the subspecies of Little Egret in Greater Sundas, that must include Sumatra AFAIK.

Description given is

Race nigripes is also white and similar to the nominate, except feet are black, occasionally with yellow soles, while the eyes may become red during courtship

Indeed, some birds I've seen on Smatra have obviously reduced yellow on feet, although I didn't see a single one with entirely black feet. However, at least 50% of the bird I met around Lake Toba are like the bird shown here, to me eyes as regular garzetta.

Can I considered them as wintering E. g. garzetta or is E. g. nigripes variable ?

Thanks.

BobbitWorm45 · Jan 27, 2019

From what I understand nigripes has yellow soles so I suspect there are occasions when it may extend around the toes somewhat. However the yellow on the feet/lower leg of this bird is quite extensive, i.e. garzetta garzetta like. I would say that's what this is.

John_WA · Jan 27, 2019

This looks like nominate garzetta to me too, they have been recorded as vagrants in northern Australia so likely to occur further north also. Australian nigripes also tend to have much yellow-orange loral skin (not sure if this is applicable to SE Asian birds but I suspect so), whereas garzetta tend to show duller/greyer lores as in the bird photographed.

As an aside, I think the majority of nigripes have yellow soles at least (seemingly contra your quoted description), and this can extend further to yellower toes, but they don't seem to ever have such extensively yellow feet cleanly cut off from dark legs

Valéry Schollaert · Jan 27, 2019

John_WA said:
This looks like nominate garzetta to me too, they have been recorded as vagrants in northern Australia so likely to occur further north also. Australian nigripes also tend to have much yellow-orange loral skin (not sure if this is applicable to SE Asian birds but I suspect so), whereas garzetta tend to show duller/greyer lores as in the bird photographed.

As an aside, I think the majority of nigripes have yellow soles at least (seemingly contra your quoted description), and this can extend further to yellower toes, but they don't seem to ever have such extensively yellow feet cleanly cut off from dark legs

Thanks very much. I understand that Indonesian birds (true nigripes) are not identical to Australian (immaculata) indeed. This is really matching my feelings regarding the birds ssen. Very helpful.

Thanks to BobbitWorm45 too !

James Eaton · Jan 28, 2019

Both nigripes and garzetta are found in Sumatra - garzetta is a common migrant and also recently found to be breeding, along with nigripes in North Sumatra. Your bird is a garzetta.

James

Valéry Schollaert · Jan 28, 2019

James Eaton said:
Both nigripes and garzetta are found in Sumatra - garzetta is a common migrant and also recently found to be breeding, along with nigripes in North Sumatra. Your bird is a garzetta.

James

Thanks James !

It will be interesting to know if they will interbreed or behave as two different species... HBW suggest they have different voice and more studies are needed.

MJB · Jan 28, 2019

Valéry Schollaert said:
Thanks very much. I understand that Indonesian birds (true nigripes) are not identical to Australian (immaculata) indeed. This is really matching my feelings regarding the birds ssen. Very helpful.

Thanks to BobbitWorm45 too !

For your information, Valéry, immaculata isn't recognised by IOC (9.1), nor by Menkhorst et al in the Australian Bird Guide, but is subsumed in garzetta.
MJB

Valéry Schollaert · Jan 28, 2019

MJB said:
For your information, Valéry, immaculata isn't recognised by IOC (9.1), nor by Menkhorst et al in the Australian Bird Guide, but is subsumed in garzetta.
MJB

I just see this in HBW Alive

Race immaculata sometimes synonymized with nigripes, but probably worthy of recognition; these two forms apparently differ vocally from nominate; further study needed.

Is there any recent study to justify a change ? Seems indeeds nigripes and immaculata can be merged, but what about relationship between the (enlarged) nigripes and garzetta ?

Thanks MJB

John_WA · Jan 31, 2019

MJB said:
For your information, Valéry, immaculata isn't recognised by IOC (9.1), nor by Menkhorst et al in the Australian Bird Guide, but is subsumed in garzetta.
MJB

immaculata is included within nigripes rather than garzetta I think?

MJB · Jan 31, 2019

John_WA said:
immaculata is included within nigripes rather than garzetta I think?

Yes, you're right, John.:t: I over-interpreted the Menkhorst et al text, which makes no actual mention of immaculata. H&M4 Vol 2 is quite definite that nigripes includes immaculata...!
MJB

Andy Adcock · Jan 31, 2019

MJB said:
Yes, you're right, John.:t: I over-interpreted the Menkhorst et al text, which makes no actual mention of immaculata. H&M4 Vol 2 is quite definite that nigripes includes immaculata...!
MJB

Just waiting for it to be renamed 'Bornean Ditch Lurker'.........

Egretta garzetta ssp in Sumatra (1 Viewer)

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