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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

"upgrading" old JPY era binocular with Zeiss lenses (1 Viewer)

aengus4h

Well-known member
anyone tried this at all?

I've seen a listing with old Zeiss bodies with lenses but no prisms and missing a number of mechanical components. Now I've a couple old JPY era and Zenith's that the prisms may fit but other mechanical parts may not be useable. So am wondering if swapping the Zeiss lenses into some of them would be a worthwhile experiment.

The lenses on these older JPY era and Zenith's are coated and in good order tho I believe these are BK7 prisms rather than BaK4 which may detract on performance if I was able to rebuild into the Zeiss bodies. For sure obtaining the parts needed to refurbish the old Zeiss won't be easy and funds are very limited at the moment.

I guess I'm more thinking out loud but would appreciate any feedback from the experienced "techs" before I go spending when I shouldn't :)
 
Parts can be exchanged sometimes.

Russian prisms from some old Porros are exactly the same as some old Zeiss as they were produced on the same machines to the same specs.
My friends measured some Soviet prisms as 1/20th wave.

If one has objectives of the same focal length, aperture and glass types then they may be able to be swapped, although some are made to stricter tolerances than others.
Old Chinese optics can be very poor. Maybe even some new ones.

I have seen some cheap astro eyepieces possibly made in India.

Somebody had the bright idea of using one component of the famous Zeiss triplet objectives from the 25x105 binoculars, I think.
But this was used as the mirror for Newtonian telescopes, and they were very poor, because the quality was just not good enough for this application, which they definitely were not designed for.

One of my friends cobbled together a fine lens made from three different lenses.
He reckons historians are going to have real problems if they ever come across it and try to identify it.
 
Some interesting stuff there Binastro, esp the home built lens, would no doubt be very confusing to a future collector, as would this project if I do decide to give it a try, a super rare Zeiss lensed JBnn, err what?!?

These old JPY era ones are Zeiss body style tho won't know focal length match for sure unless I try it. The prisms may swap into the Zeiss bodies ok if I can cross-match any other missing parts, something usable might be feasible, maybe. But it would mean sacrificing a couple pairs that are shabby but functional. As I run down funds while job hunting, perhaps a project to consider in the future if something similar comes up, rather than just taking a punt right now even if it would be something interesting to do in the interim. Tempting tho none the less...
 
Some interesting stuff there Binastro, esp the home built lens, would no doubt be very confusing to a future collector, as would this project if I do decide to give it a try, a super rare Zeiss lensed JBnn, err what?!?

These old JPY era ones are Zeiss body style tho won't know focal length match for sure unless I try it. The prisms may swap into the Zeiss bodies ok if I can cross-match any other missing parts, something usable might be feasible, maybe. But it would mean sacrificing a couple pairs that are shabby but functional. As I run down funds while job hunting, perhaps a project to consider in the future if something similar comes up, rather than just taking a punt right now even if it would be something interesting to do in the interim. Tempting tho none the less...

If you are not experienced in binocular collimation, and many “professionals” aren’t, you may be shooting yourself in the foot. Conditional alignment—which 100% of the current Internet offerings relate to, as opposed to REAL 3-axis collimation—IS ADEQUATE IN MANY CASES. However, starting from scratch, by switching out lenses, you will need much more. And techs who know the correct procedure —regardless of the reputation they’ve been given—are rare and do not work cheap. I don’t pull the heads off baby chicks at Easter. But I do want to give you a taste of what lies ahead. If you get in a bind, give Gary at East Coast Binocular Repair a try. :cat:

Good luck to you and WELCOME!

Bill

PS What is a "jpy era" binocular?
 
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thanks Bill, if I do decide to take a punt I know it'll be a fair amount of work. I don't have a collimation rig (space and funds limited at present) so am working at conditional alignment levels to suit my usage. Not ideal but where I've needed to I have restored several back to good functional order including a couple roof types. When family/friends have tried them at differing IPD they've been fine but I'm not gonna kid myself that they're truly collimated.

To be honest I was curious about what might be possible so your comments are most welcome, but am probably erring on the side of it being a bad spend at this stage so may not attempt it, maybe in the future when am better placed for funds etc. Been an interesting learning period so far tho, luckily I'm patient and used to dismantling stuff from cars to camera lenses etc so already had most of the tools I've needed, tho stuff like tiny surface mount electronics is a step too far for me. For sure I'm no optical professional, its more a hobby to bring new life back into something that would otherwise be discarded :)
 
thanks Bill, if I do decide to take a punt I know it'll be a fair amount of work. I don't have a collimation rig (space and funds limited at present) so am working at conditional alignment levels to suit my usage. Not ideal but where I've needed to I have restored several back to good functional order including a couple roof types. When family/friends have tried them at differing IPD they've been fine but I'm not gonna kid myself that they're truly collimated.

To be honest I was curious about what might be possible so your comments are most welcome, but am probably erring on the side of it being a bad spend at this stage so may not attempt it, maybe in the future when am better placed for funds etc. Been an interesting learning period so far tho, luckily I'm patient and used to dismantling stuff from cars to camera lenses etc so already had most of the tools I've needed, tho stuff like tiny surface mount electronics is a step too far for me. For sure I'm no optical professional, its more a hobby to bring new life back into something that would otherwise be discarded :)

You, sir, seem to have a massively right attitude. It’s a project; dig in. The worst you can do is to learn something. Of course, if I tell you how to do the collimation part without a collimator, I’ll have to kill you. But that’s okay; this forum already has a lot of Brits. Although I am a yank, please don’t think East Coast Binocular Repairs refers to the American EAST COAST. It’s in the UK. You know, that place people used to have the guts to call ... ENGLAND, at least when it was the English portion we were talking about.

And don’t be embarrassed about not having “funds.” When I was growing up, I thought “poverty” was for rich people. In the meantime, I’ve had a great career and salary. Today, I’m back where I started. :cat:

‘Still curious; what does JPY era mean.

Cheers,

Bill
 
hi Bill, you did get me with east coast, I did think you meant the US lol

JPY era - the old japan made JB/JE marked sold under vaious english/german sounding names. First pair of 10x50 I picked up was in a "antique" store, one occular flapping and full of dust etc. Think I paid £5 for it and after cleaning up it was way out of alignment, major eye pain with just a brief glance! While I'm between jobs I got around to picking them back up and after a strip down and rebuild and about 3 hours tweaking with tin foil I got the prisms shimmed so they are now very usable, relaxed view and nice sharp single star images etc. That kicked off the bug again I guess so I started to collect some miniature M-types as I've always liked the aesthetics of the design, have a range from 5x15 to 15x50 of those now, gotta stop huh. Somewhere there's an old army 6x pair from when I was around 10 that we picked up in surplus when based in Singapore and my dad had overhauled by the army optical guys, think they covered out the willie dixons mark in the end plate tho. My sis borrowed them years ago so I hope she's been keeping them safe as they were mint when she took them!

I did win a box of binos to get the 15x50's so have been gradually working those over, managed to sort a few of the cheapo tasco/miranda 2-hinge roofs, even rebuilt one of the roof prisms using a noname donor for the glass. Case of nowt to lose so try it and learn. Fiddly but a case of patience and thinking things thru before diving in, and when you end with a good result I find it very theraputic.

Like you, had a good long career tho mine was in the IT world, but as the rise of my 6th decade is about to dawn its not as easy to find new work. Something will turn up tho, meantime I find it good to have little projects to keep the mind alive and a little success here and there keeps the spirits up :)
 
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Like you, had a good long career tho mine was in the IT world, but as the rise of my 6th decade is about to dawn its not as easy to find new work. Something will turn up tho, meantime I find it good to have little projects to keep the mind alive and a little success here and there keeps the spirits up :)

Well, my friend, you got ME on “JPY era.” In repairing and collimating thousands of binos, spanning all their labels and years of production, I had never once heard that term. But having given six pages in one of my bino books to sharing JB codes—two of which are attached—I think you can see I’m not foreign to the subject.

Bill

PS I vaguely remember the DAWN of my 6th decade. I hear eternity is a very long time ... especially near the end. o:):cat:
 

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I recently met a distant relative for the first time, who has completely rebuilt an E type Jaguar in his spare time.
He also totally stripped and rebuilt the engine at home.

I have great respect for him, as I would never have attempted it.
 
hi Bill, I guess I'm using a currency terminology there so my bad, JPY - Japanese Yen, bits of my past creeping in unintentionally to confuse things.

Binastro, wow that is quite a project, well done that man, a true classic saved :) Have considered similar in the past myself, a Jenson FF was so very tempting but at the time I didn't have the time or facilities to attempt it, tho a number of Alfas and hydraulic Citroens have passed thru my hands over the years. The flat 4 boxer engines in the old Alfas used to make most garages do a sharp intake of breath and then run and hide, so doing stuff yourself was pretty much mandatory, similarly with the Citroen hydraulics. And as Bill has said re binocular specialists, was the same for these cars, few who really understood how to work on them and even fewer who knew how to do things right (and the main dealers were not in the latter camp lol). So I guess I'm no stranger to rolling up the sleeves and learning something new, has kept life interesting ;-)
 
The Jensen FF was amazing, I think perhaps a U.S. engine. One left me completely standing at the traffic lights.
Our Citroen mechanic had to go on a special course. I am surprised you could fix one.
I worked on 1920s Rolls Royce hearses that used to go at a walking pace.

I had one of the first Mini Cooper Ss in May 1963.
In France, a Citroen DS was behind me and I couldn't shake him. They were fast.
To prevent the humiliation of being overtaken, I went in to a garage to refuel and let him go past.
They had a little button as a brake pedal and the headlamps swivelled when going round corners.

A Jaguar XK140 was ahead of me on the A303 in pouring rain. I knew the road well as a rep doing 37,000 miles a year, and passed him on a fast bend at over 90mph on a soaking wet road. He just chickened out.

However, outside Monaco climbing a mountain road an ordinary looking Peugeot overtook me. I couldn't believe it as I was almost never overtaken. When he got to his home I stopped and asked him how he managed this, but my French was so poor I never found out.
Going round the Arc De Triomphe in Paris was great fun as they hadn't seen a Mini Cooper S before.
Mini Cooper Ss won the world rally championship 3 times, actually four, but the French concocted a complaint to claim they won it. The driver knew it was a false claim, perhaps A Finn?

My cousin had a nice Simca, in the late 1950s maybe, when spending a year studying wine making.

I liked the Renault 4 a lot.
Another cousin had a 'toy' giraffe that he shared with a friend. It was more than 9ft tall. It spent 6 months in each of their homes and travelled between them in his soft top Renault 4. I wonder why he got so many odd looks and comments?

I have taken a few binoculars apart and sort of fixed them O.K. for me. But not lately.
I have taken many lenses and telescopes apart mainly for cleaning.
 
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some nice memories there Binastro :)

Yes the Jensen FF was like the Interceptor, but a shade longer and had permanent 4-wheel drive, the first road car to have it in fact. Sometimes wish I'd just got it and stored it till I had the time, but cars don't do well sat waiting especially when they're already in need of urgent attention.

The Cit's are interesting, I do still miss mine but as a daily driver needed for long trips there comes a point when availability of major spares makes it not viable, so she's retired to a new home with a collector in Scotland.

Back onto Binos tho, I wonder if the Japan made Zeiss lenses are as good as the DDR OEM ones, same T3M coatings? I gather from reading that the mechanicals aren't as good but is the glass as good?
 
The 80mm f/2.8 Biometers that I dismantled were not good mechanically, so I doubt that Japanese lenses are worse, unless they were built down to a price.

The 50mm f/4 for Pentacon Six had a good reputation for the optics.

If you mean lens elements for binoculars, again it depends on the price they had to meet.
 
zeiss prisms

anyone tried this at all?

I've seen a listing with old Zeiss bodies with lenses but no prisms and missing a number of mechanical components. Now I've a couple old JPY era and Zenith's that the prisms may fit but other mechanical parts may not be useable. So am wondering if swapping the Zeiss lenses into some of them would be a worthwhile experiment.

The lenses on these older JPY era and Zenith's are coated and in good order tho I believe these are BK7 prisms rather than BaK4 which may detract on performance if I was able to rebuild into the Zeiss bodies. For sure obtaining the parts needed to refurbish the old Zeiss won't be easy and funds are very limited at the moment.

I guess I'm more thinking out loud but would appreciate any feedback from the experienced "techs" before I go spending when I shouldn't :)

The shells on sale on ebay are Zeiss Jena 10x50 models. The seller, Harry, has used the original prisms in repairs in his workshop near Taunton.
Your problem will be that Japanese standard 10x50 prisms will be too big to fit into the footprint in the Zeiss binoculars. Not by much but enough.
The Zeiss prisms are 51.9mm along the base, 24.85 (but some are 24.6) across the base and 25.7 to 26.27mm high.
Japanese 10x50 prisms are 52.4 x 25.5 x 26.3 so they won't fit.
Zeiss Jena prisms also have dioptre markings on them and these vary from plus to minus 7 dioptre. When changing one prism it is necessary to fit one with as close a dioptre value as possible or you have problems getting the focus balance right.
I currently have over 120 different sizes of prisms in my workshop and if I felt I could refurbish Harry's shells, I would have been bidding on the lot .
I have not tried fitting Zeiss lenses into japanese bodies but in principle it may work although I would be concerned about getting the exact focal length to permit the focus range to work.
 
many thanks Richard, that's very helpful indeed. I had put a low bid on but I see its already bumped above, so will let them pass in that case. I did pop a prism out of one of mine and measured it before I bid and concur with your measurement of 52.4, so sounds like an idea/experiment that won't fly or perhaps not well.
 
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