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Binoculars Poll - What format do you prefer ( 8x32, 10x50 etc. )

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Old Thursday 23rd May 2019, 09:29   #76
edwincjones
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Originally Posted by eronald View Post
The stats are interesting - we have mainly people who prefer something 7-8-8.5-10x40-42 and then the singular 8x32.

On the basis of this data, it looks like the model people here would really want is a zoom 7-10x42. Maybe that is the Duovid Leica should have made.

...................

Edmund

I enjoy my Duovid 10+15x50 as an excellent pair for raptors and seabirds,
but the weight prevents me from listing it as my most used.

Now, if someone would make a quality 7-15x50 that is lightweight with wide FOV
for a reasonable price, then that could be my favorite.

Wait-did not Leupold do that once?

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Old Thursday 23rd May 2019, 12:18   #77
Chosun Juan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eronald View Post
The stats are interesting - we have mainly people who prefer something 7-8-8.5-10x40-42 and then the singular 8x32.

On the basis of this data, it looks like the model people here would really want is a zoom 7-10x42. Maybe that is the Duovid Leica should have made ......

Edmund
Edmund,

At the moment, in the ~42mm's, the ~8 are just over half of those, with the 10 half of that again (~quarter of all ~42's), and the 7 about the same as that.

It seems there has been quite a few converts to 742 around here over the years .... perhaps the format is not as dead as manufacturers think .....

As far as a dual magnification bin of 7-1042 goes, I don't think there is enough of a magnification step up of one over the other to make the complexity really worthwhile.

I think something like a 7-12 or 7-1442, or even a 7.5-1545 would be very interesting, especially if the higher magnification had an auto (as in eye detect start or something) IS (image stabilization). Maybe it could even have an intermediate 10 position (TriVid)

Leupold went somewhere near this with their 7-1232 but the objective was a bit on the small side. Leica has their 8-1242 Duovid which is close. The main thing that is needed for greater acceptance I suppose is that they need greater FOV's - around 70 AFOV at each mag would be sweet, but no doubt quite involved and difficult and to achieve while keeping the weight down.





Chosun
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Old Thursday 23rd May 2019, 14:24   #78
[email protected]
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That would contradict the contribution of Holger Merlitz and my observations are also clearly 8x42.

Andreas
It doesn't mean a 10x42 is brighter than an 8x42 but you will see more detail with a 10x42 because of the greater magnification under low light if the binoculars are of EQUAL quality with equivalent coatings and glass. A Tasco 10x42 will be killed by a Swarovski 8.5x42 under low light. My Swarovski Habicht 10x40 W murders my Swarovski 8.5x42 under low light for detail. Part of it is the super high transmission of the Habicht. Part of it is Twilight Factor. You will see more detail with a 10x42 in daylight than an 8x42 and you will see more detail under low light with a 10x42. The magnification helps you see detail in both situations.

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Old Thursday 23rd May 2019, 16:55   #79
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"So would a 15x30 glass (21.2) be better for the dark than your 10x42?"

The twilight factor works on normal format binoculars. I have never heard of a 15x30 and I don't think anybody would want one. You can come up with a bunch of weird formats to try and discount the twilight factor but in most circumstances it has a lot of relevance. Remember the twilight factor is not how BRIGHT the binocular is but how much DETAIL you can see in low light.
Well, a 15x30 I do not know but the new Canon IS 14x32 is very close to the values!
So they agree with me that the 8x42 is a bit brighter !?
Mr. Merlitz once said that it is not important for a hunter to admire the bristles of the boar, but more important is to see the boar at all.

"It is conceivable - our perception is trained to look for differences, if the motive offers little detail. Not to mention that in order to be findable, the object must be within visual angle, and here the greater angle of vision is of course useful. In addition: Receptive fields for pattern recognition in darkness (finding contour lines or movements) are located primarily in the peripheral area of ​​the retina, and if the eyepiece also serves these areas, then this can only be beneficial. Therefore: Night binoculars should have wide apparent visual angle, which is unfortunately rarely the case."
Holger Merlitz

Andreas

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Old Thursday 23rd May 2019, 16:59   #80
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Edmund,

At the moment, in the ~42mm's, the ~8 are just over half of those, with the 10 half of that again (~quarter of all ~42's), and the 7 about the same as that.

It seems there has been quite a few converts to 742 around here over the years .... perhaps the format is not as dead as manufacturers think .....

As far as a dual magnification bin of 7-1042 goes, I don't think there is enough of a magnification step up of one over the other to make the complexity really worthwhile.

I think something like a 7-12 or 7-1442, or even a 7.5-1545 would be very interesting, especially if the higher magnification had an auto (as in eye detect start or something) IS (image stabilization). Maybe it could even have an intermediate 10 position (TriVid)

Leupold went somewhere near this with their 7-1232 but the objective was a bit on the small side. Leica has their 8-1242 Duovid which is close. The main thing that is needed for greater acceptance I suppose is that they need greater FOV's - around 70 AFOV at each mag would be sweet, but no doubt quite involved and difficult and to achieve while keeping the weight down.





Chosun
Hi Chosun-

I think we will need to wait for a new entry vendor, probably from China, to come in and do a decent varifocal or zoom instrument, because all the alphas enjoy selling multiple binoculars to their customers. For instance it's clear that in addition to my Leica 7x42 I will sooner or later get a 10x42. One of the reasons people are willing to get another pair is the fact that the first pair is viewed as having been a good "investment". Each flawless binocular sells the next :)

The same thing happened with camera lenses, existing vendors dimed hobbyists to death with excellent prime lenses, although good quality zoom designs existed in the movie field.Each of those Leica or Nikon or Canon lenses was totally superb, even by modern standards, but they'd just not be the lens you wanted to use at a given moment. In the 1970s when I was reading the magazines, a photo junkie would own a 35, a fast 50, a an 85, and a 135mm lens, and maybe something wider and something else longer.

Then the third party vendors eg. Tamron, Vivitar and Sigma came in with decent though not extraordinary but super-convenient zoom lenses. In the end, almost all consumers now use exclusively zooms because they have become the basic kit lenses and pros and the video field have equally embraced them.

To sum it up, with people here are spending $2K on alphas, and owning several but not really enjoying the use of them at the same time, I would expect some new vendor to appear with a high-quality zoom or varifocal innovation to serve the alpha market. As the data above shows, many people are happy with an 8x42 but many of these would appreciate to be able to go closer.

For myself, I find the the view from the alphas, and the build quality, is very high. And I have been surprised at what one can already get for $100 at my local mall. If I weren't a perfectionist, I'd get a $100 product. In this sense the market is mature, in the same way that Nikon or Canon and even the cheap firms made superb 50mm and 35mm lenses back in the 1970s.

There is an astonishingly high feeling of satisfaction perceptible in this forum, few complaints about build quality and after-sales, zero complaints about optical quality of view, a general sense of value being delivered for money spent, people are happy but they are also looking for even more convenience.


Edmund

Last edited by eronald : Thursday 23rd May 2019 at 17:13.
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Old Friday 24th May 2019, 04:23   #81
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Edmund,

I've attached a feasibility analysis for zoom binoculars by Kevin Busarow of Oberwerk. Frankly, I don't think they're in the cards.

Ed
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Zoom Binoculars_ Oberwerk.pdf (202.1 KB, 31 views)
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Old Friday 24th May 2019, 10:42   #82
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Hi,

An 8x30/32 + a 10x40/42 pretty cover all me needs right now.

PHA
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Old Friday 24th May 2019, 23:20   #83
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Edmund,

I've attached a feasibility analysis for zoom binoculars by Kevin Busarow of Oberwerk. Frankly, I don't think they're in the cards.

Ed
Ed

Thank you for that interesting document.

My experience at my ripe old age is that if it sells someone will do it, except those who do it usually won't be the ones who already have something to sell, and the incumbents get sour grape syndrome. Many years ago I interviewed a spokesman at IBM, on the record (prepared interview) and was told "we are not children, we don't need mice".

There are some very nice Leica Duovid binoculars out there, a bit heavy but perfectly usable and I think they are a valuable prototype that materially demonstrates that 8-10x would be feasible, at least as a varifocal with those ends. I believe objects that do something more than documents which say it can't be done.

Ask the members of this forum whether they wouldn't love an 8-10x Victory SF, or a Svarovski EL that does 8-10, for 20% more money and 20% more weight.

Frankly I think someone will do it just because the binoculars on the market now are so good that there is getting to be less and less gradual improvement anyone can sell - at least in unaided lens systems with no electronics. And on the other side camera e-finders are improving hugely and with camera optics with binocular viewing comes the zoom.

Edmund

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Old Saturday 25th May 2019, 18:29   #84
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Hi Edmund,

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Frankly I think someone will do it just because the binoculars on the market now are so good that there is getting to be less and less gradual improvement anyone can sell - at least in unaided lens systems with no electronics. And on the other side camera e-finders are improving hugely and with camera optics with binocular viewing comes the zoom.
Very good points. I'd add that at least two of the problems mentioned in the Oberwerk document do not affect monoculars, and Swarovski have actually been selling a monocular system with binocular eyepiece for a couple of years now, though in the spotting scope format.

No idea whether the design could be scaled down to "traditional binocular" size. Of course, it wouldn't be a binocular in the strict sense, but from a manufacturer's point of view, the question really is whether it would sell well enough to make it worthwhile.

Regards,

Henning
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Old Friday 31st May 2019, 13:49   #85
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Nice to see 7x is still popular

To bad the selection of 7x binoculars are limited on the market though
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Old Saturday 1st June 2019, 01:04   #86
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I have a 7x42 and like it a lot, but I do have 8x32 + others of course.
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Old Saturday 8th June 2019, 03:10   #87
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I have a 7x42 and like it a lot, but I do have 8x32 + others of course.
I'm thinking of complementing my 7x with a 10x from the other German brand.

Edmund

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Old Tuesday 11th June 2019, 11:22   #88
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You mean Steiner ?

Seriously though, I've noticed there are still a couple of pairs of the older Steiner Discovery XP model around for sale new, both the 10x44 and the 8x44, at (IMO) pretty decent prices.
I suggested to my sister she upgrade from her Bushnell, but the Steiner Discovery are just a tad heavy for her.
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Old Tuesday 11th June 2019, 19:56   #89
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Why no 7x35 on the list?
There must be a few people using that format. I used to and would again if there was a top class model available.
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Old Thursday 13th June 2019, 01:41   #90
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Why no 7x35 on the list?
There must be a few people using that format. I used to and would again if there was a top class model available.

Agreed
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Old Friday 14th June 2019, 22:59   #91
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I used 12x36 IS for 16 years. Now it's 12x32 IS. Also have nice 7x42 and 8x32 but they rarely get used. The 7x42 may be headed elsewhere.

I just find a 12x steady view shows more detail and allows easier identifications than any 7 or 8 power binocular.

Clear skies, Alan
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Old Saturday 15th June 2019, 08:12   #92
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Why no 7x35 on the list?
There must be a few people using that format. I used to and would again if there was a top class model available.
Agreed as well.
My favourite format is 8x30/32 because of size/weight/performance. I don't do a lot of dusk use, and when I do, I quite simply prefer to use a dedicated instrument (say a 7x42, 7x50, 10x50, etc.), so for me the 8x42 is not really a good option (I tried hauling a 795 g 8x42 Conquest HD but it was simply too heavy and big for me). I'm observing with great interest the 8x42 Nikon MHG at 665 g, but then I think to myself if the HGL 8x32 is 695 g or the EDG 8x32 is 655 then there might be something in there both in terms of optical performance (size of the prisms) and durability (especially this is my main concern with the 8x42 MHG).
So, if there was a "sub-alpha-ish" 1000 €/$ 7x35 roof around 600 g and 8.5-9 that would be THE binocular for me. The Nikon 7x35 Action Ex is one of the unexpected binoculars I've really enjoyed using, but at 800 g they were simply not meant to be an everyday binocular (plus the fact that they were so big and clunky that I couldn't singlehand them). I've never tried the 7x36 Sightmark Solitude at 650 g (let alone the now discontinued 7x36 Zen Ray ED2 at 700 g).

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Old Monday 17th June 2019, 21:36   #93
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Hi,

An 8x30/32 + a 10x40/42 pretty cover all me needs right now.

PHA
I agree with you totally.
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