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Eyecup diameter

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Old Friday 17th May 2019, 01:30   #1
Lt 26
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Eyecup diameter

I am searching for a pair of binoculars that will fit into my eye sockets. Most have way to large of an eyecup and I can not make circles. Floating and resting on my eye brow does not work for me. I wear glasses but do not like them on for binocular use, would rather go without. I have deep set eyes and an IPD of 59-61.

I am going to part with the two pair I have now as I just can't stand them anymore. That will leave me with just a monocular. My kingdom for a pair that fit. Willing to throw 3k at this problem if I can find a fit. My eye socket is 36mm.

Could someone out there please measure to diameter of the eyecup at the top of the eyecup for the following binoculars. I live in BFE and have never seen a Leica, Swarovski or Zeiss in person.

Leica ultravid hd plus 8x32

Swarovski habicht 7x42 or 10x40

Nikon hg 8x30 and 8x42

Swarovski cl 8x30b and the cl 8x30

Any other binoculars with an eyecup diameter near 35-36


Thank you very much for any assistance.

Dereck
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Old Friday 17th May 2019, 02:03   #2
John A Roberts
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Dereck

The Habichts are most likely to have the smallest diameter eyecups (oldest technology, with less complex/ less bulky eyepieces)

On all of the current Habichts:
- the leatherette version eyecups are 33 mm in diameter, and
- the rubber armoured version eyecups are 39 mm

Coincidentally, I posted on the subject yesterday, and it may contain additional info of interest to you. See post #6: https://www.birdforum.net/showthread...06#post3850006

Hopefully, others will post about the other models that you are interested in

John


p.s. I've attached a photo from another forum member Rathaus. it shows the two different eyecups, and how they are interchangeable (it's from: https://www.birdforum.net/showpost.p...9&postcount=34 )
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Old Friday 17th May 2019, 02:18   #3
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John, thank you. Feels like someone threw me a lifeline.

Dereck
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Old Friday 17th May 2019, 04:02   #4
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Hi Dereck,

I suspect the underlying problem may be that your current binoculars have insufficient eye relief, particularly if they are Porro prisms like Swaro Habichts, EIIs, etc. That may also be why you don't enjoy using them with glasses.

So, I'd suggest trying out some roof prism binoculars that have ample eye relief, such as Swaro's 8x42 SLC (and several others). Personally, I wouldn't be satisfied unless the new binos worked comfortably with your eyeglasses as well. They're supposed to work for you, not the other way around.

Ed
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Old Friday 17th May 2019, 07:18   #5
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Meopta MeoStar B1 32mm models have 35mm eyecups.

Lee
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Old Friday 17th May 2019, 15:11   #6
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Hi,

of my bins, I'm sure you would like an old pair of Leitz Trinovids 7x42 BA of 80s vintage with 35mm diameter long and soft rubber eyecups, so you can easily compress them a bit to adapt to your eyesocket - but those are of course neither multicoated (there might be some later pairs which are) nor phase coated (there's rumours about an experimental series right before the new model did come out, but mine certainly aren't, I checked).
Unfortunately I am not aware of any modern bins with sth similar. The Trinis are not bad, optically and offer a very relaxed view with a reasonably wide field, but they are not comparable to modern alphas of course.

But since I read in your other thread that you don't want to float them in front of your face or use the fingers as a spacer I would think you need a pair with ample eye relief and twist up eyecups with good friction or even some click stops.
Then get some self adhesive foam rubber and cut out two rings and put them on the eyecups when twisted down partially or all the way - then try to find a setting which is comfortable (due to the foam rubber hopefully) and lets you see the whole field.
When you found that, you can cut out a fraction of the foam rubber ring to create more "nose relief".

Joachim
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Old Friday 17th May 2019, 17:21   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkcub View Post
Hi Dereck,

I suspect the underlying problem may be that your current binoculars have insufficient eye relief, particularly if they are Porro prisms like Swaro Habichts, EIIs, etc. That may also be why you don't enjoy using them with glasses.

So, I'd suggest trying out some roof prism binoculars that have ample eye relief, such as Swaro's 8x42 SLC (and several others). Personally, I wouldn't be satisfied unless the new binos worked comfortably with your eyeglasses as well. They're supposed to work for you, not the other way around.

Ed
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Originally Posted by Troubador View Post
Meopta MeoStar B1 32mm models have 35mm eyecups.

Lee
BOTH good advice!

I started out like you, wanting to use binoculars WITHOUT my eyeglasses. Doing this more compromising that just going ahead and learning to use binoculars WITH eyeglasses. It CAN be done and I'm proof!

I'd suggest a 7X42 UVHD+ if you can afford it. Large, easy to find exit pupil with plenty of useable eye relief. And a no longer in production SLC 7X42, Meostar B.1 7X42, or FL 7X42 would be perfect choices too(ebay). The SLC 8X42 is an excellent choice as is a Zeiss SF 8X42. Once you get used to using binoculars WITH glasses you'll be surprised what you can use. I have no problems with a Terra ED 8X25 with eyeglasses!
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Old Friday 17th May 2019, 17:49   #8
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Ed, I have never liked having any optics pushed up against my glasses. Not with my telescope, microscope or binoculars. I am of the school that think RC39, Polycarbonate and high index plastics with inferior coating is no way to treat a photon. I may not be able to in the future but for now the focuser can make adjustments.
I know many people find it inconvenient to go back and forth. I just don't think you can get the best out of optics going through your glasses.

I don't think any of the EL series will work for my face shape. Like viewing with my glasses on I would need over 20mm of eye relief to see the full fov. The most comfortable view I have now is with my 10x35EII the worst is my 8x32se. The se has more eye relief. The se and EII both have 40mm eyecups. My eye sockets are 36mm. To much eye relief combined with oversized eyecups are my issue.

I wish manufacturers would put more money into eyecups as apposed to that pretty cardboard box they come in. The Swarovski Habicht eyecups may fit my eye sockets.

Dereck
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Old Friday 17th May 2019, 19:39   #9
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Dereck,

What makes you think that coatings on glasses are inferior to those on binoculars? My optician tells me that 7-layer coatings are today's standard. Up to about 2005 Swarovski were still using 3-layer multicoating on their binoculars.

If you have any measurable astigmatism (need a cylindrical correction) there is no way you are going to get the best out of your binoculars WITHOUT your glasses.

Eye relief requirements with glasses vary according to your correction. I am mildly far-sighted and get along well with 18-20 mm (specified values). Many who are near-sighted can see the whole FOV with only 15-16 mm of eye relief.

John
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Old Saturday 18th May 2019, 00:32   #10
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I had a friend who supervised a large eyeglass factory. He had over a hundred employees. They ground the blanks and did final assembly into the frames for shipment to optometrist around the state. I was in his office ( more like a store room) one day. He had hundreds of eyeglass ready to go out. I picked up one of them and asked him what do you have in a pair. $16 on average frames and all he said.

I about choked since I had just paid $275 after insurance. My glass are bifocals and have many micro scratches. The material they make glasses out of each have their own tint, just a little but it is there. My glasses are larger I need more than 20mm. I only have a mild astigmatism, my cyl. is .50 and it kicks in at about anything over a 4mm exit pupil. But realize the day will come when I don't have much of a choice. Should probably rule out 7x42's for now and stick with 8x30 or 10x40.

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Old Saturday 18th May 2019, 04:43   #11
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Due to your stated facial constraints, I would be hesitant to order the Swaro Habicht. I think you would be well suited by something with long eye relief and eye cups with many increments for adjustment. I have never handled a Swaro Habicht, but it appears to offer neither.
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Old Saturday 18th May 2019, 12:05   #12
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My glass are bifocals and have many micro scratches.
Then you are doing something wrong and similar treatment of your binoculars is going to lead to irreparable damage.
My bifocals are multicoated CR-39 and are 2 1/2 years old and under a 10x loupe I can detect no damage. They are cleaned once or twice daily under running water with a drop of liquid soap between the finger tips and then dabbed clean with a fresh cosmetic tissue. That's what the optician uses after the ultrasound bath.
Don't forget that the coatings could be as thin as a 10000th of a millimeter (1/4 wavelength of 400 nm).
It sends shivvers down my spine if I see people rubbing their dry glasses clean with a handkerchief or their T-shirt and if they do that with their bins I get palpitations!

John
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Old Thursday 23rd May 2019, 01:02   #13
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Dereck,

What makes you think that coatings on glasses are inferior to those on binoculars? My optician tells me that 7-layer coatings are today's standard. Up to about 2005 Swarovski were still using 3-layer multicoating on their binoculars.

John
Hi Tringa - that's really interesting. The subject of coating/re-coating binocular lenses/prisms has come up here a couple of times, and the difficulty in re-coating lenses that have already been coated has been mentioned - but presumably uncoated lenses would be easier in that respect, and if modern multi-coatings used in glasses are better than those used in binoculars in 2005... Is there even a sliver of possibility that the lenses/prisms of say a pre-war (and therefore uncoated) Dekarem could be sent in to be coated with those sorts of eyeglasses coatings? (I know - even if possible it would likely be prohibitively expensive, but one can hope...)

On the same subject - Birdforum member "range" posted the photo below on another site. The binocular on top would seem to be a vintage binocular of some kind - maybe a Sard 6x42? Its objective lenses have clearly been re-coated. It would be most interesting to know how this was done, and how much it cost (likely to be affordable only by a Chinese billionaire, but one can hope...)

(Moderators - feel free to put this into its own thread if it has digressed too far from the original topic.)
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Old Thursday 23rd May 2019, 01:10   #14
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I have always worried about eye cup diameters and eye relief and how they are going to fit my face and I have changed eye cups on the Habicht and I have tried different winged eye cups trying to fit my face and avoid black outs and then I had a revelation! MANY binoculars have eye cups that are too small like compacts and they are not long enough for the eye relief and they are too small in diameter so your eyes sink into them too far creating blackouts. I have tried resting them on my eyebrows(Mosfet Technique) but in many cases the eye cups are still too short and then your binoculars are forced be at angle which is not the ideal situation. DON'T WORRY about eye cup length or diameter or eye relief. I Have come up with the solution. Cup your hands around the eye cups and rest them on your forehead and then adjust the eye relief by changing the distance with your cupped hands. It is MORE comfortable with your hands against your forehead than the eye cups because the force is more spread out and your hands can be infinitely adjusted to conform to your forehead and your hands are softer and can be cupped around the eye cups to shield stray light. Try it. You will like it. I am going to call it the "Cupped Hand Technique".

Last edited by [email protected] : Thursday 23rd May 2019 at 01:13.
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Old Friday 24th May 2019, 00:18   #15
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Hi Tringa - that's really interesting. The subject of coating/re-coating binocular lenses/prisms has come up here a couple of times, and the difficulty in re-coating lenses that have already been coated has been mentioned - but presumably uncoated lenses would be easier in that respect, and if modern multi-coatings used in glasses are better than those used in binoculars in 2005... Is there even a sliver of possibility that the lenses/prisms of say a pre-war (and therefore uncoated) Dekarem could be sent in to be coated with those sorts of eyeglasses coatings? (I know - even if possible it would likely be prohibitively expensive, but one can hope...)
Hi Patudo,

Sorry, I can't answer that but share your suspicion that it would not be economically viable.
However, here is a link I have posted several times showing the cross-section of a 7x42 Swarovski SLC with 3-layer coatings AFTER the introduction of Swarobright dielectric mirror coating: https://www.juelich-bonn.com/jForum/...name=image.jpg It was probably the level used up to the introduction of the SLC "Neu" around 2006/7. IIRC Gjs van Ginkel tested one of this vintage and its transmission trailed a current Ultravid HD+ only marginally.

John
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