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Mongoose ID, southern Africa? (1 Viewer)

opisska

opisska

rabid twitcher
Czech Republic
Anyone into Mongooses here? The "not yellow, not banded" Mongoose family gives us significant headaches as colour differences are minute and shapes are hard to judge for novices. First image from Etosha, second and third from Chobe (Savuti). Thanks!
 

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First thing to say is that bthe KIngdon guide is terrible for this group (and several others).

1 Slender, note the black brush on the tail end.

2 Small Grey

3 Difficult on this view, reminds me of Dwarf Mongoose but could be another Small Grey?
 
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Thanks, Andy!

1. are you judging solely based on the black brush? Because Kaokoland/Angolan (flavescens) should have it as well. But maybe you are working from a taxonomy that doesn't distinguish those, this a bit messy right now.

2. Small Grey (pulverulenta) is wildly (2000 km) out of range in Chobe according to Stuart's Field Guide. But they can be wrong, obviously!

3. sadly no better angles on this one, just a slightly turned head as attached
 

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opisska said:
Thanks, Andy!

1. are you judging solely based on the black brush? Because Kaokoland/Angolan (flavescens) should have it as well. But maybe you are working from a taxonomy that doesn't distinguish those, this a bit messy right now.

2. Small Grey (pulverulenta) is wildly (2000 km) out of range in Chobe according to Stuart's Field Guide. But they can be wrong, obviously!

3. sadly no better angles on this one, just a slightly turned head as attached
Click to expand...

Hi Jan,

1. The range given (Smither's) for Kaokoland is a very small area on the West coast of Namibia, looks to be the Kunene area which has a few distinctive races of animal e.g the 'Chobe' Bushbuck there, attached.

2 Cannot see anything other than Cape Grey that looks anything like this, perhaps it's Dwarf then?
 

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I'm looking at an older book, Haltenorth and Diuller, 1977 which is actually pretty good for illustrations.

Based on tail shape, range and elimination of other species, I think if Cape Grey is out of the question which I think it is, it has to be Dwarf?
 
Thanks once again!

The Dwarfs are then likely settled.

Our confusion about the ranges comes from the Stuart's guide which plots the Kaokoland range rather large. And also from seeing the attached Mongoose right next to Etosha, which is so dark that we thought it's Black, which would be a Kaokoland subspecies.
 

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Looking at Handbook of Mammals of the World, based mainly on a process of elimination, I think the last one has to be a dark form of Slender Mongoose?
 
I am still super confused :) I found Smither's guide on Google Books, so I could look at the range page for Kaokoland and if I am superimposing it on an actual map correctly, they area where they overlap with Slender extends to the very eastern part of Etosha. This species is so obscure though that finding other updated information online is impossible.

They should be "distinguished from Slender based on colour and skull shape" - the skull shape is quite difficult but on colour, shouldn't then a "dark Slender Mangoose" in a reasonable range then be just Kaokoland? The question then is though whether the one from the original post can be deemed Slender, because there are some pictures floating online of pretty bright variants of Kaokoland!

Maybe it's just not possible from pictures and I will put those as "either", at least it seems quite clear they aren't anything else now.
 
opisska said:
I am still super confused :) I found Smither's guide on Google Books, so I could look at the range page for Kaokoland and if I am superimposing it on an actual map correctly, they area where they overlap with Slender extends to the very eastern part of Etosha. This species is so obscure though that finding other updated information online is impossible.

They should be "distinguished from Slender based on colour and skull shape" - the skull shape is quite difficult but on colour, shouldn't then a "dark Slender Mangoose" in a reasonable range then be just Kaokoland? The question then is though whether the one from the original post can be deemed Slender, because there are some pictures floating online of pretty bright variants of Kaokoland!

Maybe it's just not possible from pictures and I will put those as "either", at least it seems quite clear they aren't anything else now.
Click to expand...

Should be nowhere near Etosha?

I've improvised a photo here for comparison with the book and Google maps. I had to photograph it, I don't know how or if you can turn a print screen in to a jpeg so this is the best I could do.

The range of Kaakoland is way over West towards the Kunene River and Angola, top left, the cross hatched bit on the page from smithers.

Handbook of Mammals of the World, doesn't split Kaokoland but does refer to an alternative name for Slender, 'Black'.
 

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Oh I am so sorry, I meant WESTERN, not EASTERN. For some obscure reason, the directions in South Africa continue to confuse me like nowhere else. If you look at the Google Maps, Etosha is drawn incorrectly in there, in fact it continues all the way to the road that goes straight south from Ruacana. This (across the road from the Etosha entrance) is where we saw the last mongoose and is well inside the black lined area. While I am not sure where exactly we saw the 1st from the 1st post, it was somewhere along the road from there through Etosha towards east, definitely before arriving close to the Pan.
 
opisska said:
Oh I am so sorry, I meant WESTERN, not EASTERN. For some obscure reason, the directions in South Africa continue to confuse me like nowhere else. If you look at the Google Maps, Etosha is drawn incorrectly in there, in fact it continues all the way to the road that goes straight south from Ruacana. This (across the road from the Etosha entrance) is where we saw the last mongoose and is well inside the black lined area. While I am not sure where exactly we saw the 1st from the 1st post, it was somewhere along the road from there through Etosha towards east, definitely before arriving close to the Pan.
Click to expand...

I'd estimate that the range given in the book as illustrated, does not extend even as far East as Etanga and not as far South as Purroa?
 
I admit that this might seem a little obsessive :), but I have overlayed the map in the book over Google maps exactly and you can see that the range actually goes even to central Etosha.
 

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I think you're right.

Now you have to decide on taxonomy, as I said HMW don't even mentio 'Kaokoland' but 'Black Mongoose' is mentioned as an alternative name for Slender. If it were me, I'd probably record it as a dark form Slender?

Here's a quote from HMW re Slender......

'A large and variable number of sub species (over forty) have been described, mostly on the basis of unreliable charcters (mostly pelage and size). Of these, the Somalian Mongoose (G ochracea) is now considered a valid species. The otheres are not considered valid here but this may be changed by further studies, including genetic analysis'......

Some small mammals, are just not identifiable without an in hand examination.
 
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Yeah, this mammal taxonomy seems even worse than birds... We decided somewhat randomly to start listing mammals based on MSW, because they provide this super nice spreadsheet which makes it easy to search (and we do not need to buy 9 volumes of books to get the complete picture :)). They consider Somalian AND Angolan as species and the rest as subspecies. Now Angolan is synonymous with Kaokoland and in a remark they say it can be synonymous with Black, but even the remark themselves are not consistent, because they are just references to various works ...

I dunno, probably really nothing much can be said, if those both look good for the "Slender" category, then the final pick is a matter of choice. The most interesting outcome of this thread to me is the quite certain determination of Dwarf which now seems clear to me and it's a nice extra species for a total of 57 from the trip if I am not mistaken. Africa is just so great!
 
opisska said:
Yeah, this mammal taxonomy seems even worse than birds... We decided somewhat randomly to start listing mammals based on MSW, because they provide this super nice spreadsheet which makes it easy to search (and we do not need to buy 9 volumes of books to get the complete picture :)). They consider Somalian AND Angolan as species and the rest as subspecies. Now Angolan is synonymous with Kaokoland and in a remark they say it can be synonymous with Black, but even the remark themselves are not consistent, because they are just references to various works ...

I dunno, probably really nothing much can be said, if those both look good for the "Slender" category, then the final pick is a matter of choice. The most interesting outcome of this thread to me is the quite certain determination of Dwarf which now seems clear to me and it's a nice extra species for a total of 57 from the trip if I am not mistaken. Africa is just so great!
Click to expand...

Dwarf Mongoose are are great little critters.

We had a pack of them who raided our kitchen area in Kruger. They came in, about six of them and systematically checked out behind the fridge and under the cooker for anything they could find to eat, great for getting rid of any nasties that may be lurking.

Here's one of them attached.
 

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I would agree with Dwarf Mongoose for the second animal. I think the first is a Slender (albeit a dark phase).

Black Mongoose taxonomy is very confusing although the IUCN do now treat it as a different species from Slender. The range of the true Black Mongoose (Galerella nigrata) is unclear and varies considerably in the different textbooks and online maps. However, in the photos that I've seen of this species, the whole animal is completely black. They're also restricted to rocky outcrops.
 
opisska said:
My wife has found a great resource: https://www.waterberg-wilderness.com/pdf/Poster-UQ-2007.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0bQnVmDaAXDtH_umCxo4O8Zcf1VlXHJKVcerNaRlCRi9pocKK98aixDEY

which clearly shows the area in question (for the dark Mongoose at the waterhole) to be within range for the species (it's in the Hobatere consession). It was indeed an area of granite outcrops (the waterhole is in a small depression between those).
Click to expand...

Is Hobatere open again, when were were going to stay there, the Lodge had burned down so we couldn't.
 
andyadcock said:
Is Hobatere open again, when were were going to stay there, the Lodge had burned down so we couldn't.
Click to expand...

No idea, we went to the "Roadside camp", which is on the same property, but is accessed just about 2 kms off the main road. The road towards the lodge was locked, but we have no idea whether it wouldn't be available after previous reservation.

The area around the Roadside camp is small, but nice, with the aforementioned waterhole. Btw. we found that we do have a photo of a sign from the lookout, which explicitely advertises the Kaokoland Mongoose!

So the real question is, whether the other one (1st image from 1st post) can be determined as NOT Kaokoland - which should be easy, as it is inside Etosha, thus quite far from the granite outcrops? (Unless we still don't get taxonomy right and there are some Kaokoland that are NOT Black?)
 

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opisska said:
No idea, we went to the "Roadside camp", which is on the same property, but is accessed just about 2 kms off the main road. The road towards the lodge was locked, but we have no idea whether it wouldn't be available after previous reservation.

The area around the Roadside camp is small, but nice, with the aforementioned waterhole. Btw. we found that we do have a photo of a sign from the lookout, which explicitely advertises the Kaokoland Mongoose!

So the real question is, whether the other one (1st image from 1st post) can be determined as NOT Kaokoland - which should be easy, as it is inside Etosha, thus quite far from the granite outcrops? (Unless we still don't get taxonomy right and there are some Kaokoland that are NOT Black?)
Click to expand...

Makes me wonder if there has been a local study where animals have been examined in the hand.

Would it be possible to contact that lodge to ask where they get their certainty from?
 
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