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Corona virus threat to birding (2 Viewers)

3Italianbirders said:
I disagree. Studies are being carried out as to why the virus spread so quickly in the first couple of days before lockdown in the affected areas. But one of the reasons may be that the contagion happened in an hospital, thus people there were presumably more vulnerable. The Italian Health Service is consistently rated among the best in the world, at least north of Rome.

And the shutdowns are not pointless, at least according to every health professional I have listened to, and also according to the WHO. That's the reason why China now has only a handful of new cases each day. Getting people to take social care is not very easy in a country of almost 60 million. The lockdown has really been effective in convincing people that this is serious and accordingly must be taken seriously. Yes, it will damage the economy, but lives will be saved.

See this article
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The lockdown may save lives, but at horrendous cost, way more than any sensible calculus would support. The social damage from the removal of 13% of GNP, which is an earlier estimate of the Italian tourism sector, vastly exceeds the virus casualties.
There is not only an immediate impact but also a long term effect, as relationships and structures that were a long time building get thoughtlessly wiped out. The irresponsible way in which the leaders wreck the lives of millions from their comfortable offices is simply disgusting imho.
 
etudiant said:
The lockdown may save lives, but at horrendous cost, way more than any sensible calculus would support. The social damage from the removal of 13% of GNP, which is an earlier estimate of the Italian tourism sector, vastly exceeds the virus casualties.
There is not only an immediate impact but also a long term effect, as relationships and structures that were a long time building get thoughtlessly wiped out. The irresponsible way in which the leaders wreck the lives of millions from their comfortable offices is simply disgusting imho.
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I would like to ask you for quantifiable sources for that damage. Because as it stands now it's just a vague, ideologically motivated opinion. I would like to remind you that Italy has a population of 60 million people. The virus has a mortality over 5 percent there even when the medical care somewhat works - in case of an uncontrollable outbraek, the fatality can easily exceed 10 percent cases, as almost everyone who requires oxygen to survive will die, if only a small fraction of cases will get treatment. Again, note how the system is on the bring of collapse while there are still only 15 000 or so cases. If half of the population gets infected, as many predict in case of open transmission, we are talking about possibly 3 million dead people.

Is the economical impact really more dire than 3 million deaths? I really doubt so.
 
Trump is hilarious,
speaking now in relation to Coronavirus he says.....'it's incredible to look at what we've done, compared to other areas of the World'..........he should have clown hat on.

'as the WHO organisation confirmed today, many of the things what we said, were 100% correct including our designation, before them of Europe'...........what does this even mean?

He's bumbling through a script while a host of his cronies stand behind him, looking embarassed Now reeling off a list of private companies for thanks, turning in to a big dick contest, you win America, you have the biggest.
 
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andyadcock said:
Trump is hilarious,
speaking now in relation to Coronavirus he says.....'it's incredible to look at what we've done, compared to other areas of the World'..........he should have clown hat on.

'as the WHO organisation confirmed today, many of the things what we said, were 100% correct including our designation, before them of Europe'...........what does this even mean?

He's bumbling through a script while a host of his cronies stand behind him, looking embarassed Now reeling off a list of private companies for thanks, turning in to a big dick contest, you win Donald, you have the biggest.
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Fixed your post.

Please don't lump all of America in with the @#$%-for-brains in the White House.
 
dantheman said:
I

I wonder if it's too late, and we're all going to get it anyway?
Click to expand...

I think that’s the ‘new protocol’

Perhaps it’s the fact of Italy’s healthcare system being overwhelmed by sheer numbers and a high infection curve that provides a rationale for a different approach? The key surely to minimising fatalities (and slowing spread) is to reserve beds and staffing for the critically ill in a national health service that already is straining with high bed occupancies.

Hospital beds do not need to be filled with people with mild or even moderate symptoms that can be self-managed at home with common sense and consideration for those around them that might be more vulnerable.

If that means voluntary self-limiting behaviour, voluntary self-isolating, extra hygiene vigilance, and staying at home nursing the virus, then I’m happy with that in the knowledge that if I do become critically ill, there’s a greater chance there’ll be a bed and respiratory support available for me at the local hospital when infection levels really start to peak!

To be honest, I was more upset not being able to use my ticket to see Arsenal play at the Amex tomorrow than any impact on my birding so far - but it’s likely I’ll try and avoid planes, trains and buses for a while which limits me to my local patch although in doing so, unfortunately adds to the pandemic related economic damage already being suffered with very worrying consequences.

Ps I’m not a ‘doomsday prepper’ but I must confess to having bought a mobile O2 machine this week (as well as loo paper :-O)

PPS Trump must be forgiven his ineptitude - the virus is ‘foreign’ and he honestly didn’t realise the Wall wouldn’t stop it.
 
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andyadcock said:
It was stated today that this virus will probably now occur seasonally, every year and yes, I think it is too late to stop it and we'll all be exposed sooner or later.
Click to expand...

Sorry if it was answered further down the thread but WTF??? In my country there are no sings from epidemiologists or other medical specialists that would indicate that COVID-19 will became a seasonal thing like 'it's just a flu'... There is just not enough data on that and it is highly inappropriate to put it out as a 'probable' thing in public forum. Sorry if I offend someone (can take it to Ruffled Feathers forum if neeeded), but no other recent coronavirus (SARS/MERS) has followed similar path (sudden outbreak that is followed by "slowdown" with infection becoming seasonal nusiance).
 
What I have heard is that it may disappear with the summer, but return in the fall. Although presumably folks who already recovered from it will have the antibodies, so will be less susceptible.

Containment is stupid and my president and his administration are as well. Travel restrictions to Europe are not going to do a single thing when you already have community spread in the states. Best thing we can at this point is self-isolate and ride it out.
 
Deb Burhinus said:
I think that’s the ‘new protocol’

Perhaps it’s the fact of Italy’s healthcare system being overwhelmed by sheer numbers and a high infection curve that provides a rationale for a different approach? The key surely to minimising fatalities (and slowing spread) is to reserve beds and staffing for the critically ill in a national health service that already is straining with high bed occupancies.

Hospital beds do not need to be filled with people with mild or even moderate symptoms that can be self-managed at home with common sense and consideration for those around them that might be more vulnerable.

If that means voluntary self-limiting behaviour, voluntary self-isolating, extra hygiene vigilance, and staying at home nursing the virus, then I’m happy with that in the knowledge that if I do become critically ill, there’s a greater chance there’ll be a bed and respiratory support available for me at the local hospital when infection levels really start to peak!

To be honest, I was more upset not being able to use my ticket to see Arsenal play at the Amex tomorrow than any impact on my birding so far - but it’s likely I’ll try and avoid planes, trains and buses for a while which limits me to my local patch although in doing so, unfortunately adds to the pandemic related economic damage already being suffered with very worrying consequences.

Ps I’m not a ‘doomsday prepper’ but I must confess to having bought a mobile O2 machine this week (as well as loo paper :-O)

PPS Trump must be forgiven his ineptitude - the virus is ‘foreign’ and he honestly didn’t realise the Wall wouldn’t stop it.
Click to expand...

Thanks, You hit the most points right on the head - every country in Europe that has not been overwhelmed with COVID-19 cases needs to take any/every measure to slow down the spread of the virus (by self-isolation, social distancing etc.) or else the healthcare system will be overwhelmed and many other critical patients will suffer from that. For example in Italy there are currently around 1300 critical cases in intensive care. My country (Latvia) can take maybe 100-200 patients to ICU at the same time (and many of the beds are already occupied)? Maybe a bit more with some management, but if we get overwhelmed with severe COVID-19 cases that require ICU/etc. than it's basically "game over" for every other severe patient that is brought in with other illnesses that require ICU (or "game over" for severe COVID-19 patients that can't get the ICU treatment for lack of available beds)... So for now I'm happy that we have an ongoing emergency situation in my country with many (although for now - not extremely severe) restrictions in place in country with just 18 cases (for now - our neighbors Estonia have 79... that is very bad when counting cases among 1mil/population)... If we can slow down the spread for a while (3-4 weeks or longer) than we should be able do deal with it... If not - shit will hit he fan (maybe it has already)...
 
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andyadcock said:
You didn't fix it or it would read 'Donald, you are the biggest' or did you imply something else from my post?
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I did mis-understand. I thought you were maligning America for wanting to be in a dick-measuring contest. I didn't realize you were calling IMPOTUS the biggest dick.

Mea culpa.
 
My trip to Ecuador late May looking very doubtful now - Singapore Airlines just cancelled all flights to Germany between now and the end of May and my flights were via Frankfurt.
 
What is with the disgraceful offensive language on this forum ?!

Have parts of the anatomy and bovine waste functioning now become common acceptable language?

There are women and children on this global forum and the language should be commensurately polite and refined - not what you'd find in a wharfies pub.

It always seems to be the same perps - along with the same condescending ones who seek to denigrate and persecute others of different backgrounds or views to their own self approved clique, all the while reveling in their own self deluded superior intelligence.

Some here should take a very good look at themselves and perhaps 'self isolate' from public forums permanently .......




Chosun :gh:
 
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Deb Burhinus said:
Hospital beds do not need to be filled with people with mild or even moderate symptoms that can be self-managed at home with common sense and consideration for those around them that might be more vulnerable.
Click to expand...

People who have mild to moderate symptoms are not hospitalised in Italy. They stay at home in self-isolation and are monitored by the health authorities. The system is overwhelmed only in some provinces of the north where ICUs are full or almost full.
 
If all 'mass gatherings' are prohibited by the government here in the UK, under what category does the London underground and massively oversubscribed commuter train network come?

Anyone who's been jammed in a carriage on the London undergound will know that it's far more 'intimate' than any sports match or classroom.
 
3Italianbirders said:
People who have mild to moderate symptoms are not hospitalised in Italy. They stay at home in self-isolation and are monitored by the health authorities. The system is overwhelmed only in some provinces of the north where ICUs are full or almost full.
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I read or heard that China is sending ventilators and other stuff to Italy?

Edit: A team of specialist Chinese doctors is in Italy to help the country in its fight against the virus, Ansa news agency reports.

They brought with them equipment including ventilators, respirators and masks.

They include the vice-president of the Chinese Red Cross and a professor of cardiopulmonary resuscitation, both part of the team of intensive care specialists, pediatricians and nurses who treated coronavirus patients in China.
 
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