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COVID: lies, damn lies, and statistics

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Old Sunday 3rd May 2020, 16:26   #26
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During the live, government Q&A which is currently on UK tv, one questioner has just proposed that the unusually high death rate among black and ethnic minority groups in the UK, is not biological, rather it's the result of 'the racism and discrimination that exists in society and the NHS'................
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Old Sunday 3rd May 2020, 17:08   #27
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Originally Posted by andyadcock View Post
Another punchline here

'This article is a preprint and has not been certified by peer review [what does this mean?]. It reports new medical research that has yet to be evaluated and so should not be used to guide clinical practice.
True of pretty much all current research on this virus.
The peer review process is pretty slow, months is not unusual, so first cut research papers like the one above are all we have.

That aside, the paper says the statistics of the virus don't at all reflect impacts from public policy actions.
At a minimum, that should prompt reflection, because that public policy is really a massive incursion of the state into the day to day life of its citizens, an incursion specifically prohibited by the constitution here in the US. For instance, nullifying the freedom of assembly seems a pretty significant alteration.
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Old Sunday 3rd May 2020, 17:12   #28
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True of pretty much all current research on this virus.
The peer review process is pretty slow, months is not unusual, so first cut research papers like the one above are all we have.

That aside, the paper says the statistics of the virus don't at all reflect impacts from public policy actions.
At a minimum, that should prompt reflection, because that public policy is really a massive incursion of the state into the day to day life of its citizens, an incursion specifically prohibited by the constitution here in the US. For instance, nullifying the freedom of assembly seems a pretty significant alteration.
What would you suggest would be the motive of any, elected government, if not the public good?
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Old Sunday 3rd May 2020, 19:10   #29
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Subject: A crucial Chess Game
READ & RE-READ/ BILL O'REILLY ON CHINA.

Written by Bill O'Reilly

China’s Bio weapon, and Pelosi.. My wife Angie will tell you that I study history and world events fluently every day. I have studied China for many years. To get answers I need to questions, I call many I know in Washington on Capitol Hill (from my tenure on two Presidential campaigns and Presidential talks) and I ask them for straight up answers to better understand what affects us as a nation.

Well, in 2016 America elected a new Sheriff: Donald J Trump. For decades the Chinese walked all over America but the new President said “not anymore”. Trump literally strangled China’s economy to the point their economy was in its worst free fall ever. Trump negotiated a new 50 billion trade agreement. He had Xi by the proverbial balls. America’s economy was on fire and unstoppable. President Xi Jingping knew he could not beat the USA militarily and he knew any domesticated economic attack would fail as our economy was too strong. He had to act. But how?

Enter the USA democrats led by Pelosi and Schiff. Impeachment. A hoax. A distraction for our people and President. Xi Jingping and his thugs see this. They aren’t stupid. They have very intelligent intellectual thinkers in their government. Now you must understand , the Chinese regime are truly Barbarians. Notice I did not say ALL CHINESE. The Chinese people are a good people. I enjoy my interactions with them.

The communist regime has millions of its own citizens slaving in gulags simply for speaking against the government or openly practicing Christianity. Knowing they could not attack us openly they needed to be coy, like a deceptive fox. In my opinion, I believe the regime released a biological weapon upon the world that doesn’t kill everyone, but kills “enough,” especially the elderly and in-firmed. Back in WW 2 Hitler thought the same way. He got rid of what he considered the useless and rejects of society.

Trumps task force uses models to figure things. Xi used and uses “models” too. China's president figured that if he killed a few of his own (a few hundred thousand to them would be a few out of 1.4 billion people) and spread the virus to other nations (especially to the USA) they would “level the economic playing field” and not have fired a shot.

Losses of his own people were acceptable costs of a new war. When China’s own doctors attempted to sound the warning, they were immediately silenced. In fact one died and another has simply disappeared. Trump and the other allied leaders indeed KNOW this is what happened. They have under reported their own deaths. Trump knows he cannot outrightly seek retribution. His news conference today showed me this when he balked publicly about no outright retribution over Xi’s handling of this and he immediately brought up the “trade deal”. However, Trump wasn’t being weak, he too was now being coy. We know this was a biological weapon. The food market story is bullshit.

Xi knows we know it. Trump also today announced he sent two battle groups of destroyers and other ships to sea several days ago to fight drugs and rogue actors like Iran should they try anything.

I say he did this to show Xi he knows what has transpired (we have the greatest intelligence assets) and that they (the Chinese) should rethink further action. Politics is premier. We cannot overtly attack China for what they have done as we would also suffer greatly. We all know this.

But China has temporarily achieved its goal. America was literally consumed by Trumps phony impeachment brought by the ultra left democrats (supported by democrat rank and file and one Republican Mitt Romney) and Xi Jingping saw an opening. He took it. Xi did what Trump usually does...he walked onto the world stage and threw a grenade into the “room” and left. It exploded in the form of this worldwide pandemic. It brought the USA and the rest of the world to its knees and leveled the economic playing field.

Our economy is now near depression. Xi didn’t fire one bullet. Trump needed to up his game of chess and putting our Naval ships to sea was his next move. He said he is a “war” President. He is.

But now on not one but two fronts. One front is the virus and the other front is the Chinese. While the Saudi’s and Russians are screwing with oil prices they aren’t overtly doing what this pandemic is doing. The drug smuggling story for dispatching the Naval Force is bullshit and the world knows it. I am of the opinion Trump can indeed bring us back from this catastrophe albeit with a changed playing field.

But Trump is a genius in chess and financial matters. He’s become a champ at international politics too. I am sure Trump can once again lead the economy to even stronger strength and greatness the it was . He can do it quickly I’m sure of it. He has proved it. Xi Jingping needs to be sent a message loud and clear. NEVER AGAIN. We need to bring all of our critical manufacturing back from China beginning with our medicines they were recently threatening to withhold. We can do it immediately. Again, another reason for Trump putting to sea such a sizable Naval Force. Sending a clear message.

We all must ride out the next few weeks. Then we and the world pick up the pieces and move on. The democrats who have given Xi this opening wrapped in a bow must pay a heavy price in November as they (the democrats) truly have cost and continue to cost America precious lives by the phony scandals. Nancy Pelosi continues to help the Chinese by her daily shameless attacks upon the President and meddling in stimulus packages as she did this last weekend. Yesterday’s statements she made were truly appalling and the lowest of low. I didn’t think she could go any lower. What a disgrace she is to our nation.

But, Pelosi aside, make no mistake, China must and will be taught a lesson the likes they have never seen before and Trump is the man to pull the trigger.

We the people must teach the democrats the same lesson at the polls. They (the radical wing of the party) are the enemy of a free America. I am certain of it. The entire democrat party of our forefathers is dead. Remember people, Trump indeed tried to warn us all of the Conavirus in his State of the Union Speech. He spoke of it. He said he was on top of it.

After he spoke , Nancy Pelosi ripped up the speech calling Trumps words “a manifesto of lies”. She disgraced the country and all of our fellow honored citizens present in the House Chamber. Well she now has American blood on her hands. She is very majorly responsible for these needless deaths as well as the Chinese. Her and Adam Schiff.

The left and democrats laughed as she tore up his speech. Well, as they laughed the disease he just spoke of in that speech came to our shores. Republicans and Democrats alike are now dying. Your family members and mine. Our grandparents and middle aged citizens alike. Bodies are being loaded in trucks with forklifts in Brooklyn outside of hospitals. No one is safe. Our liberty is for the most part suspended. As we bury our dead (without proper funerals) from this calamity let’s drive the nails into the coffin of the Democrat party as well in November.

It’s time people. Stand up for your rights and your country! Our Liberty and survival is at stake! I am praying for God’s blessing on our nation. But, God also gave us the ability to think for ourselves and it’s time we placed blame for all this death where it belongs: on the doorsteps of Nancy Pelosi, Adam Schiff and Xi Jingping directly. Wake Up America. WAKE UP!

Written by: Bill O'Reilly
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Old Sunday 3rd May 2020, 22:00   #30
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Originally Posted by andyadcock View Post
What would you suggest would be the motive of any, elected government, if not the public good?

The public good is a very abstract term, it can and has been used and abused so badly by governments that it has lost its allure.
For Stalin, getting rid of the Kulaks was a public good, less so for the Kulaks.
More recently, Rahm Emmanuel, advisor to Pres Obama, became famous for his dictum: Never let a crisis go to waste. The current outbreak suggests most governments fully agree with this, using the disease as an excuse to bulldoze civil liberties and limits on government authority.

The US founders were very aware that governments seek power, it is inherent in the bureaucracies that are used to govern. Hence they were deeply skeptical of strong governments and tried hard to limit the scope of the governments reach. Now it appears that governments can stampede societies into all manner of dumb decisions by a health scare amplified by relentless media coverage, irrespective of constitutional constraints. For big government advocates, a very enlightening development, although imho much less so for the societies they lead.
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Old Monday 4th May 2020, 01:42   #31
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Originally Posted by litebeam View Post
Subject: A crucial Chess Game
READ & RE-READ/ BILL O'REILLY ON CHINA.

Written by Bill O'Reilly

China’s Bio weapon, and Pelosi.. My wife Angie will tell you that I study history and world events fluently every day. I have studied China for many years. To get answers I need to questions, I call many I know in Washington on Capitol Hill (from my tenure on two Presidential campaigns and Presidential talks) and I ask them for straight up answers to better understand what affects us as a nation.

Well, in 2016 America elected a new Sheriff: Donald J Trump. For decades the Chinese walked all over America but the new President said “not anymore”. Trump literally strangled China’s economy to the point their economy was in its worst free fall ever. Trump negotiated a new 50 billion trade agreement. He had Xi by the proverbial balls. America’s economy was on fire and unstoppable. President Xi Jingping knew he could not beat the USA militarily and he knew any domesticated economic attack would fail as our economy was too strong. He had to act. But how?

Enter the USA democrats led by Pelosi and Schiff. Impeachment. A hoax. A distraction for our people and President. Xi Jingping and his thugs see this. They aren’t stupid. They have very intelligent intellectual thinkers in their government. Now you must understand , the Chinese regime are truly Barbarians. Notice I did not say ALL CHINESE. The Chinese people are a good people. I enjoy my interactions with them.

The communist regime has millions of its own citizens slaving in gulags simply for speaking against the government or openly practicing Christianity. Knowing they could not attack us openly they needed to be coy, like a deceptive fox. In my opinion, I believe the regime released a biological weapon upon the world that doesn’t kill everyone, but kills “enough,” especially the elderly and in-firmed. Back in WW 2 Hitler thought the same way. He got rid of what he considered the useless and rejects of society.

Trumps task force uses models to figure things. Xi used and uses “models” too. China's president figured that if he killed a few of his own (a few hundred thousand to them would be a few out of 1.4 billion people) and spread the virus to other nations (especially to the USA) they would “level the economic playing field” and not have fired a shot.

Losses of his own people were acceptable costs of a new war. When China’s own doctors attempted to sound the warning, they were immediately silenced. In fact one died and another has simply disappeared. Trump and the other allied leaders indeed KNOW this is what happened. They have under reported their own deaths. Trump knows he cannot outrightly seek retribution. His news conference today showed me this when he balked publicly about no outright retribution over Xi’s handling of this and he immediately brought up the “trade deal”. However, Trump wasn’t being weak, he too was now being coy. We know this was a biological weapon. The food market story is bullshit.

Xi knows we know it. Trump also today announced he sent two battle groups of destroyers and other ships to sea several days ago to fight drugs and rogue actors like Iran should they try anything.

I say he did this to show Xi he knows what has transpired (we have the greatest intelligence assets) and that they (the Chinese) should rethink further action. Politics is premier. We cannot overtly attack China for what they have done as we would also suffer greatly. We all know this.

But China has temporarily achieved its goal. America was literally consumed by Trumps phony impeachment brought by the ultra left democrats (supported by democrat rank and file and one Republican Mitt Romney) and Xi Jingping saw an opening. He took it. Xi did what Trump usually does...he walked onto the world stage and threw a grenade into the “room” and left. It exploded in the form of this worldwide pandemic. It brought the USA and the rest of the world to its knees and leveled the economic playing field.

Our economy is now near depression. Xi didn’t fire one bullet. Trump needed to up his game of chess and putting our Naval ships to sea was his next move. He said he is a “war” President. He is.

But now on not one but two fronts. One front is the virus and the other front is the Chinese. While the Saudi’s and Russians are screwing with oil prices they aren’t overtly doing what this pandemic is doing. The drug smuggling story for dispatching the Naval Force is bullshit and the world knows it. I am of the opinion Trump can indeed bring us back from this catastrophe albeit with a changed playing field.

But Trump is a genius in chess and financial matters. He’s become a champ at international politics too. I am sure Trump can once again lead the economy to even stronger strength and greatness the it was . He can do it quickly I’m sure of it. He has proved it. Xi Jingping needs to be sent a message loud and clear. NEVER AGAIN. We need to bring all of our critical manufacturing back from China beginning with our medicines they were recently threatening to withhold. We can do it immediately. Again, another reason for Trump putting to sea such a sizable Naval Force. Sending a clear message.

We all must ride out the next few weeks. Then we and the world pick up the pieces and move on. The democrats who have given Xi this opening wrapped in a bow must pay a heavy price in November as they (the democrats) truly have cost and continue to cost America precious lives by the phony scandals. Nancy Pelosi continues to help the Chinese by her daily shameless attacks upon the President and meddling in stimulus packages as she did this last weekend. Yesterday’s statements she made were truly appalling and the lowest of low. I didn’t think she could go any lower. What a disgrace she is to our nation.

But, Pelosi aside, make no mistake, China must and will be taught a lesson the likes they have never seen before and Trump is the man to pull the trigger.

We the people must teach the democrats the same lesson at the polls. They (the radical wing of the party) are the enemy of a free America. I am certain of it. The entire democrat party of our forefathers is dead. Remember people, Trump indeed tried to warn us all of the Conavirus in his State of the Union Speech. He spoke of it. He said he was on top of it.

After he spoke , Nancy Pelosi ripped up the speech calling Trumps words “a manifesto of lies”. She disgraced the country and all of our fellow honored citizens present in the House Chamber. Well she now has American blood on her hands. She is very majorly responsible for these needless deaths as well as the Chinese. Her and Adam Schiff.

The left and democrats laughed as she tore up his speech. Well, as they laughed the disease he just spoke of in that speech came to our shores. Republicans and Democrats alike are now dying. Your family members and mine. Our grandparents and middle aged citizens alike. Bodies are being loaded in trucks with forklifts in Brooklyn outside of hospitals. No one is safe. Our liberty is for the most part suspended. As we bury our dead (without proper funerals) from this calamity let’s drive the nails into the coffin of the Democrat party as well in November.

It’s time people. Stand up for your rights and your country! Our Liberty and survival is at stake! I am praying for God’s blessing on our nation. But, God also gave us the ability to think for ourselves and it’s time we placed blame for all this death where it belongs: on the doorsteps of Nancy Pelosi, Adam Schiff and Xi Jingping directly. Wake Up America. WAKE UP!

Written by: Bill O'Reilly
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Old Monday 4th May 2020, 02:24   #32
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Originally Posted by etudiant View Post
The public good is a very abstract term, it can and has been used and abused so badly by governments that it has lost its allure.
For Stalin, getting rid of the Kulaks was a public good, less so for the Kulaks.
More recently, Rahm Emmanuel, advisor to Pres Obama, became famous for his dictum: Never let a crisis go to waste. The current outbreak suggests most governments fully agree with this, using the disease as an excuse to bulldoze civil liberties and limits on government authority.

The US founders were very aware that governments seek power, it is inherent in the bureaucracies that are used to govern. Hence they were deeply skeptical of strong governments and tried hard to limit the scope of the governments reach. Now it appears that governments can stampede societies into all manner of dumb decisions by a health scare amplified by relentless media coverage, irrespective of constitutional constraints. For big government advocates, a very enlightening development, although imho much less so for the societies they lead.
Are you seriously suggesting that the lockdowns etc. stemming from Trump’s half-assed response to the pandemic constitute a serious assault on civil liberties and the constitution? These measures are temporary and things will go back to normal in that respect as soon as the virus is brought under control. Do you dispute this? As for “big government” in the sense of strong effective government, that’s exactly what we need right now to manage the pandemic and its fallout and that’s what we most certainly do not have, at least at the federal level.

If you want to worry about long term damage to constitutional government and civil liberties, worry about presidential overreach unchecked by a compliant senate and abetted by a radicalized judiciary increasingly protective of the power of the executive.
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Old Monday 4th May 2020, 02:50   #33
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Are you seriously suggesting that the lockdowns etc .... constitute a serious assault on civil liberties and the constitution?
Isn't that chapter 1 in the 'how despots grab power' playbook ??
..... a 'temporary' 'emergency' that just happens to last into perpetuity .....





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Old Monday 4th May 2020, 03:36   #34
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Isn't that chapter 1 in the 'how despots grab power' playbook ??
..... a 'temporary' 'emergency' that just happens to last into perpetuity .....
Ah, so that's what you fear is in store for Australia, is it, a vicious dictatorship? Any thoughts on the likely flavor? Fascist? Nativist? Proletarian? Feminist? Vegan? Or perhaps some altogether new horror?
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Old Monday 4th May 2020, 05:03   #35
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Exclamation MP's have 'better things to do' during crisis than sit in Parliament

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Ah, so that's what you fear is in store for Australia, is it, a vicious dictatorship? Any thoughts on the likely flavor? Fascist? Nativist? Proletarian? Feminist? Vegan? Or perhaps some altogether new horror?
You're late to the party. That horse has already bolted.
Oooooo - you're gonna love this ....
The elected Parliament (of a stolen country anyway) is shut down until 11th August (or will that date get pushed out as the 'crisis' rolls on ? The Government with no oversight will make that decision !) . A privately selected and appointed NCCC has 'input' and 'advice' (actually it is difficult to give an accurate description - since it is appoint and fund first - make the rules up later type of gig) to the spending of $300Billion so far. There is no oversight except by the Government of the shut down Parliament which itself has no oversight ........
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...id-19-response

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theaimn...-covid-19/amp/






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Old Monday 4th May 2020, 05:28   #36
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You know that people have quit reading this drivel right?
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Old Monday 4th May 2020, 06:37   #37
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The public good is a very abstract term, it can and has been used and abused so badly by governments that it has lost its allure.
For Stalin, getting rid of the Kulaks was a public good, less so for the Kulaks.
More recently, Rahm Emmanuel, advisor to Pres Obama, became famous for his dictum: Never let a crisis go to waste. The current outbreak suggests most governments fully agree with this, using the disease as an excuse to bulldoze civil liberties and limits on government authority.

The US founders were very aware that governments seek power, it is inherent in the bureaucracies that are used to govern. Hence they were deeply skeptical of strong governments and tried hard to limit the scope of the governments reach. Now it appears that governments can stampede societies into all manner of dumb decisions by a health scare amplified by relentless media coverage, irrespective of constitutional constraints. For big government advocates, a very enlightening development, although imho much less so for the societies they lead.
You Americans. You're like Linus and his Blanket with your constitution.

In much the same way as your ridiculously outdated 2nd amendment is a noose around your neck (it took a pandemic to yield the first period without school shootings in nearly two decades), any "right" that would be held sacrosanct above common sense and urgent need becomes the same.

Your founding fathers didn't know what bacteria or viruses were, or how they function and spread. Do you really think, if they were here today, looking at the nature of this disease, that they would advise public assemblies?

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Old Monday 4th May 2020, 06:49   #38
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Even if serial rapist Bill knew the cure to cancer, he doesn't deserve to be listened to by anyone. Yet the "piece" stands fully on its own as a manifest of stupidity. Trump is a genius, ha ha!
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Old Monday 4th May 2020, 07:02   #39
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You're late to the party. That horse has already bolted.
Oooooo - you're gonna love this ....
The elected Parliament (of a stolen country anyway) is shut down until 11th August (or will that date get pushed out as the 'crisis' rolls on ? The Government with no oversight will make that decision !) . A privately selected and appointed NCCC has 'input' and 'advice' (actually it is difficult to give an accurate description - since it is appoint and fund first - make the rules up later type of gig) to the spending of $300Billion so far. There is no oversight except by the Government of the shut down Parliament which itself has no oversight ........
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...id-19-response

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theaimn...-covid-19/amp/
As bad as that is it? Where will you flee to?
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Old Monday 4th May 2020, 07:55   #40
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As bad as that is it? Where will you flee to?
Obviously back to 'dreamtime' with 'her people', I think that's where she is now tbh.
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Old Monday 4th May 2020, 09:08   #41
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Even if serial rapist Bill knew the cure to cancer, he doesn't deserve to be listened to by anyone. Yet the "piece" stands fully on its own as a manifest of stupidity. Trump is a genius, ha ha!
This text has been around for over a month, and its attribution to Bill O'Reilly is fake.
The original author is said to have been "a Facebook user named Tim Besmer Sr." on : https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bi...navirus-essay/.
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Old Monday 4th May 2020, 09:33   #42
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Perhaps an indication that we all are really flying blind while trying to deal with this virus:

https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/...mic#post856818

The punch line from the abstract of the paper is ' Comparing the trajectory of the epidemic before and after the lockdown, we find no evidence of any discontinuity in the growth rate, doubling time, and reproduction number trends.'
There's a very good real-life case study already, and it's here in Italy. When the nationwide lockdown was enacted on March 10, several northern regions, Lombardy in particular, were already pretty heavily affected by the virus, while in most regions in the south the virus had yet to make serious inroads. The result is that the per-capita death rate in Lombardy (lockdown enacted too late) is 23 times higher than in my home region of Campania (lockdown enacted when the virus was still under control). In fact, since deaths in Lombardy are significantly under-counted, per capita death rates there are probably more in the order of 30-35 times higher than in Campania. So if the metric is saving lives, lockdowns work, no ifs or buts about it.
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Old Monday 4th May 2020, 13:32   #43
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I guess things are swell in Helsinki (Owen), I am surprised Opisska is Eastern European, he sounds like he would fit right into San Francisco. We in the US have idiots like Fujl, and when push comes to shove he will fold like a banana leaf.

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Old Monday 4th May 2020, 13:54   #44
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This text has been around for over a month, and its attribution to Bill O'Reilly is fake.
The original author is said to have been "a Facebook user named Tim Besmer Sr." on : https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bi...navirus-essay/.
Poor litebeam, how will anyone take him seriously now? Well, not that much of a change ....

I don't understand the later San Francisco vs. Eastern Europe comment, but I am almoat sure it's flattering for me, because whatever stereotype people have associated with Eastern Europe, I am quite sure I don't want to fit in it.
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Old Monday 4th May 2020, 14:10   #45
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I don't understand the later San Francisco vs. Eastern Europe comment
I don't think anyone does, but then again that's the problem with illiterate drivel
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Old Monday 4th May 2020, 14:24   #46
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The punch line from the abstract of the paper is 'Comparing the trajectory of the epidemic before and after the lockdown, we find no evidence of any discontinuity in the growth rate, doubling time, and reproduction number trends.'
File under "lies".
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Old Monday 4th May 2020, 14:51   #47
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I guess things are swell in Helsinki (Owen), I am surprised Opisska is Eastern European, he sounds like he would fit right into San Francisco. We in the US have idiots like Fujl, and when push comes to shove he will fold like a banana leaf.

Andy W.
If there are idiots to worry about over there...I don't think it's fugl (with a g). What would he fold against...this?

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Old Monday 4th May 2020, 16:31   #48
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There's a very good real-life case study already, and it's here in Italy. When the nationwide lockdown was enacted on March 10, several northern regions, Lombardy in particular, were already pretty heavily affected by the virus, while in most regions in the south the virus had yet to make serious inroads. The result is that the per-capita death rate in Lombardy (lockdown enacted too late) is 23 times higher than in my home region of Campania (lockdown enacted when the virus was still under control). In fact, since deaths in Lombardy are significantly under-counted, per capita death rates there are probably more in the order of 30-35 times higher than in Campania. So if the metric is saving lives, lockdowns work, no ifs or buts about it.
The Swedish experience suggests that social distancing and face masks achieve pretty much the same result, without the huge social impact of a lockdown.
Absent any available treatment, the stated purpose of these rules was to 'flatten the curve', to avoid overwhelming the hospitals. Social distancing and prohibitions on mass gatherings achieved that in Sweden and elsewhere. The lockdown was clearly inspired by the desperate efforts made by China to control the outbreak, without consideration that these draconian measures, which do great harm socially as well as economically, may be an ill advised
and excessive response elsewhere.
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Old Monday 4th May 2020, 16:33   #49
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Moronic. . ..
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.. drivel ....
Nawww - you've found a little friend !
Isn't this burgeoning bromance just delightful
How lovely ! ..... two birds of a feather





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Old Monday 4th May 2020, 16:50   #50
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The Swedish experience suggests that social distancing and face masks achieve pretty much the same result, without the huge social impact of a lockdown.
Absent any available treatment, the stated purpose of these rules was to 'flatten the curve', to avoid overwhelming the hospitals. Social distancing and prohibitions on mass gatherings achieved that in Sweden and elsewhere. The lockdown was clearly inspired by the desperate efforts made by China to control the outbreak, without consideration that these draconian measures, which do great harm socially as well as economically, may be an ill advised
and excessive response elsewhere.
What, precisely, do you think Sweden achieved?

https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertonard...tm_source=digg

28% more excess deaths than their neighbour that locked down?
Good job.

Owen
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