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Need advice for Travel Scope and Tripod

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Old Saturday 17th March 2018, 08:04   #1
PJPro
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Need advice for Travel Scope and Tripod

Hi everyone,

I would like to buy a new, lightweight travel scope and tripod. I have been looking at the following options.

Celestron Hummingbird MM ED, 09-27x Fixed Zoom, Total 590g / 287
Nikon Fieldscope ED50, 13-40x MKII Eyepiece, Total 620g / 778
Hawk Endurance ED, 12-36x Fixed Zoom, Total 700g / 399
Vortex Viper HD, 11-33x Fixed Zoom, Total 700g / 549
Kowa TSN-553, 15-45x Fixed Zoom, Total 810g /1599
Opticron MM4 50 GA ED, 12-36x HDF Eyepiece , Total 825g / 528
Opticron MM4 50 GA ED, 12-36x SDL v2 Eyepiece, Total 889g / 628
Opticron MM4 60 GA ED, 12-36x SDL v2 Eyepiece, Total 999g / 728
Swarovski ATS 65 HD, 20-60x Eyepiece, Total 1665g/1555

Ideally, I'd like the scope to be as light as possible but would be prepared to lug a little extra weight for a better viewing experience. Currently, I'm leaning towards the Nikon ED50. Would the MM4 60 be a better option (taking into account the extra weight)? The MM4 appears to offer a lot of nice features (rotating tripod adapter, fine focus). The Kowa was looking good until I saw the price! Are there other options I need to consider?

I'm also looking for a decent tripod. Again, it needs to be light. A lot of the recommendations on this forum appear to be for items which are now discontinued. The Sirui range of tripods (eg Sirui T-0025X) look good but I'm worried that 130cm max height isn't high enough (I'm 5' 9").

Incidentally, I am looking for an angled scope rather than straight.
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Old Saturday 17th March 2018, 08:11   #2
Andrew Whitehouse
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I've used a Nikon ED50 for many years and it's a very good scope that can give excellent views at lower magnifications and in reasonable light conditions. I'd perhaps recommend a fixed eyepiece rather than the zoom e.g. 20x or 27x. It works well at those magnifications and that's enough power for most circumstances.

There are quite a lot of lightweight travel tripods around that should do the job. It depends how much you want to spend. Carbon fibre is likely to be more expensive but lighter. For a small scope you might want to consider a ball head rather than a video fluid head.
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Old Saturday 17th March 2018, 08:32   #3
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Thanks for the advice Andrew. I think I am all but settled on the Nikon ED50 but I thought it worth a posting a thread before I pull the trigger.

Incidentally, which tripod do you use with your Nikon? I don't mind spending a bit of money (so carbon fibre is an option) but I don't want to spend Gitzo money. At the end of the day, the cost of the tripod needs to be in proportion with the cost of the scope.
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Old Saturday 17th March 2018, 09:12   #4
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Thanks for the advice Andrew. I think I am all but settled on the Nikon ED50 but I thought it worth a posting a thread before I pull the trigger.

Incidentally, which tripod do you use with your Nikon? I don't mind spending a bit of money (so carbon fibre is an option) but I don't want to spend Gitzo money. At the end of the day, the cost of the tripod needs to be in proportion with the cost of the scope.
I currently use this Manfrotto Element tripod:
https://www.wexphotovideo.com/manfro...r-kit-1640497/
I think it's basically very good for the price. My main reservation is with the quick release plate, which come loose a bit too easily. I actually use a similar Benro ball head with it rather than the Manfrotto one supplied because the release plate is more secure.
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Old Saturday 17th March 2018, 09:44   #5
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PJ
I tried the little Kowa 553 at Bird Fair last year and it is stunning.

Depending how keen you are to decide you could do worse than postpone deciding and come up to Bird Fair this August so you can try out many models in a short space of time.

Lee
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Old Saturday 17th March 2018, 09:50   #6
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Hmm. Can't wait until August (I want to buy today)! And I would struggle to justify the price of the Kowa (however good).

I've been considering the weight difference between the MM4 60 and Nikon ED 50 (it's these two that are the front runners). Basically, it's around 400g....that's less than a tin of beans. I would happily take that comprise if the MM4 60 provided a better experience. Has anyone compared these scopes?
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Old Saturday 17th March 2018, 12:00   #7
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PJ In my two big local nature reserves at Potteric Carr and RSPB Old Moor I see loads of Opticron MM scopes (and binos) and on a recent visit to the north Norfolk coast the most popular brand was Opticron too.

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Old Sunday 18th March 2018, 06:44   #8
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I am surprised, give the popularity of both scopes, that no-one appears to have made a direct comparison between the two.
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Old Sunday 18th March 2018, 08:26   #9
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Originally Posted by Steve O4B View Post
The Opticron MM3 and MM4 are better than the Nikon <ED50>. If you want something in the $800 range, get the Opticron. But, neither come close to the Kowa TSN-553.
This statement suggests the MM4 is a ED50 beater?

Last edited by PJPro : Sunday 18th March 2018 at 08:26. Reason: typo
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Old Sunday 18th March 2018, 08:29   #10
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No way is the MM3 50 better than the Nikon ED50 good samples of both. Come to think of it I haven't star tested a really good MM3 yet. Each to their own though.
Although not all agree with Steve OB4's statement. No mention of the MM4 but I understand they are optically similar?
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Old Sunday 18th March 2018, 10:39   #11
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This statement suggests the MM4 is a ED50 beater?
Thats a pretty clear vote for the Opticron.

Lee
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Old Monday 19th March 2018, 12:09   #12
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I've used the Nikon ED 50 angled with a 27x wide for many years and have really enjoyed it. No need to upgrade. It actually gets more use than my big scope and it weighs 628gm.

That said, Nikon really doesn't make much of an effort to support this scope, at least here in the states, and some of the eyepieces apparently aren't being made anymore. I had to order that 27x from Japan. So I'd look into the Opticron and Kowa if I were currently in the market.

I recently upgraded my tripod for the Nikon to a Vanguard VEO2 265CB carbon and really like that. It weighs 1.3kg, folds up small, is very solid for a smaller scope, goes up to 59" (150cm) and is very reasonably priced. I saw the Sirui T-025x and it was too light (almost flimsy) and too short for me (I'm 5'9"). I passed on it.

At about 2kg for the combo, what I have is easy to travel with and I don't mind carrying it for miles and miles.
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Old Monday 19th March 2018, 14:33   #13
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I have an ED50 (angled) and my tripod is .. a monopod! But it's really both as it's a SIRUI P204-S. It works really well with the little ED50. No head required, just affix the scope to the monopod direct. In most conditions I find that I can leave it standing (on its three little feet) without additional support and it really comes into its own in hides where I no longer need to faff around with a hide clamp. It's much quicker to set up and fold away than any tripod I've ever used. The only (rare) occasion when it struggles is if there's a need to pan vertically which it can only do to a limited extent (relying on the swivel at the base of the monopod). Of course if I bothered to fit a video head this wouldn't be a problem, but for the very rare occasions when you might want to look up (or down) by more than about 30 degrees, it's not worth the extra weight. SIRUI do a CF version too, but it's quite a bit more expensive.
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Old Monday 19th March 2018, 16:10   #14
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Hi Andrew,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Whitehouse View Post
I've used a Nikon ED50 for many years and it's a very good scope that can give excellent views at lower magnifications and in reasonable light conditions. I'd perhaps recommend a fixed eyepiece rather than the zoom e.g. 20x or 27x. It works well at those magnifications and that's enough power for most circumstances.
I'm using the 13 - 40x eyepiece and like it very well. It's not so much the long end of the zoom that I'd miss, but the short end, as in my opinion it gives a great view when searching an area for birds.

Regards,

Henning
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Old Monday 19th March 2018, 16:40   #15
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Originally Posted by Hauksen View Post
Hi Andrew,



I'm using the 13 - 40x eyepiece and like it very well. It's not so much the long end of the zoom that I'd miss, but the short end, as in my opinion it gives a great view when searching an area for birds.

Regards,

Henning
I'm sure that's true and I don't really have much experience with that zoom so can't really comment in depth. However, I think it's a relatively narrow field of view zoom, whereas the fixed eyepieces have a wide field. Given that the magnifications are already fairly low, with a fixed eyepiece you can get the wide field you'd get at 13x but at a higher magnification. I think the 27x lens has almost as wide a field as the zoom at 13x and the 20x lens has a much wider field.
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Old Monday 19th March 2018, 16:55   #16
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Hi Andrew,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Whitehouse View Post
I think the 27x lens has almost as wide a field as the zoom at 13x and the 20x lens has a much wider field.
That's quite an interesting consideration ... I guess I'd like to try out the fixed eyepieces one day! :-)

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Old Monday 19th March 2018, 19:29   #17
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Hi Andrew,



That's quite an interesting consideration ... I guess I'd like to try out the fixed eyepieces one day! :-)

Regards,

Henning
I've tried locating a source for the 27x MC II (the one with the twist up eye cup) and it seems it has been discontinued by Nikon and is no longer available. I'd be happy to be proved wrong. The DS (digiscoping?) version, however, is available. I think the MC II is regarded as the better eye piece, especially for those who do not wear glasses.

Last edited by PJPro : Monday 19th March 2018 at 19:38.
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Old Monday 19th March 2018, 20:12   #18
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Originally Posted by John Fleet View Post
I have an ED50 (angled) and my tripod is .. a monopod! But it's really both as it's a SIRUI P204-S. It works really well with the little ED50. No head required, just affix the scope to the monopod direct. In most conditions I find that I can leave it standing (on its three little feet) without additional support and it really comes into its own in hides where I no longer need to faff around with a hide clamp. It's much quicker to set up and fold away than any tripod I've ever used. The only (rare) occasion when it struggles is if there's a need to pan vertically which it can only do to a limited extent (relying on the swivel at the base of the monopod). Of course if I bothered to fit a video head this wouldn't be a problem, but for the very rare occasions when you might want to look up (or down) by more than about 30 degrees, it's not worth the extra weight. SIRUI do a CF version too, but it's quite a bit more expensive.
The scope will be shared with my wife. While a mono-pod is an attractive proposition from the perspective of weight, it would be nicer to be able to view the same bird without having to re-find it....assuming it doesn't move :)
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Old Monday 19th March 2018, 20:16   #19
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Originally Posted by PJPro View Post
I've tried locating a source for the 27x MC II (the one with the twist up eye cup) and it seems it has been discontinued by Nikon and is no longer available. I'd be happy to be proved wrong. The DS (digiscoping?) version, however, is available. I think the MC II is regarded as the better eye piece, especially for those who do not wear glasses.
I use the 27x DS and also wear glasses. I don't have a problem personally, though others might do.
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Old Monday 19th March 2018, 20:17   #20
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Originally Posted by Kammerdiner View Post
I've used the Nikon ED 50 angled with a 27x wide for many years and have really enjoyed it. No need to upgrade. It actually gets more use than my big scope and it weighs 628gm.

That said, Nikon really doesn't make much of an effort to support this scope, at least here in the states, and some of the eyepieces apparently aren't being made anymore. I had to order that 27x from Japan. So I'd look into the Opticron and Kowa if I were currently in the market.

I recently upgraded my tripod for the Nikon to a Vanguard VEO2 265CB carbon and really like that. It weighs 1.3kg, folds up small, is very solid for a smaller scope, goes up to 59" (150cm) and is very reasonably priced. I saw the Sirui T-025x and it was too light (almost flimsy) and too short for me (I'm 5'9"). I passed on it.

At about 2kg for the combo, what I have is easy to travel with and I don't mind carrying it for miles and miles.
I've read a lot of threads bemoaning the apparent lack of support by Nikon for the ED 50. It seems the more popular (fixed lens MC II) eye pieces have been discontinued. This is nudging me back to the MM4. The problem is that there aren't too many reviews of the MM4 online. It's a pity that I can't try out the ED 50 (with the 13-40x eyepiece) alongside the MM4....then it would be easy to decide.

Last edited by PJPro : Monday 19th March 2018 at 20:23.
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Old Tuesday 20th March 2018, 00:46   #21
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I've compared the Nikon 50ED to the Opticron 50 MM3 (similar to MM4), both with fixed eyepieces. In comparison to my straight Nikon 50ED with 27x WF eyepiece, the view of the MM3 with the 24x eyepiece (now discontinued) was overall very similar. The most obvious differences to me were that the Opticron was not as sharp at the edges of the view (due to aberrations that I could not focus out) and that it had some blue color fringing and other CA around objects well off-axis (nearly nonexistent in the Nikon), but these differences were trivial (even to someone like me who likes to use the full view), and I don't think that I would select one scope over the other based on optics. Otherwise, the biggest differences were in size and weight. The MM4 is small, but the ED50 is definitely smaller in size and lighter weight.

In the USA, the Nikon is often available gray market or direct from Japan (without USA warranty) for half price or less. I picked up an extra angled model for under $300 recently, just in case it is discontinued in the future.

For travel, I use the Nikon 50 ED with a 27x WF eyepiece (which is older but optically the same as the MC and DS versions, yet much smaller). I've never been disappointed with its performance, even against my full-size scopes.

One option for a wide-angle fixed eyepiece for the 50ED is to adapt an astronomy eyepiece. Near the top of the Nikon subforum, you'll find a thread about how to do that very elegantly. Here's the link:
https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=322702

For travel, I like the Velbon Ultra 455 legs with a Really Right Stuff BH-25 Pro ballhead (_much_ lighter than the stock Velbon head). This tripod sets up tall or short super fast, is very light and compact, is very solid when short. If you want an even more compact tripod, you could go with the Velbon Ultra 355.

--AP

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Old Tuesday 20th March 2018, 06:46   #22
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For a portable tripod try the Manfrotto Befree Live (the one with a fluid video head). For a scope you will maybe need a longer quick release plate, the 500PLONG designed for the MVH500 head. It's perfectly compatible including the safety lock

I own one, together with a 190XPRO3 with a MVH500AH head. The 190 is more stable of course, but the Befree Live is more than usable with my 65 mm scope (Celestron Regal M2).

The trick to achieve full stability is not to tighten the X and Y locks but exploit the fluid head effect to dampen vibrations.

Try it, you might be surprised!

The head itself is excellent for its price and size, and it can be bought separately. THe reference is MVH400AH. And remember, a longer plate (500PLONG) will be a very versatile addition.
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Old Tuesday 20th March 2018, 08:22   #23
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It's a pity that I can't try out the ED 50 (with the 13-40x eyepiece) alongside the MM4....then it would be easy to decide.
If you are in Christchurch UK and not NZ and you're not in a desperate hurry to buy, you could go along to one of the In Focus events at either Stanpit Marsh (15th April) or Blashford Lakes (8th May).

They often have Nikon ED 50s listed in their used equipment list and the MM4 is always in stock with them. You'd just need to call them to make sure the Nikon could be available to see at the event you choose to visit.

HTH

Cheers, Pete
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Old Tuesday 20th March 2018, 08:54   #24
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Hi Andrew,

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Given that the magnifications are already fairly low, with a fixed eyepiece you can get the wide field you'd get at 13x but at a higher magnification. I think the 27x lens has almost as wide a field as the zoom at 13x and the 20x lens has a much wider field.
I just found this overview:

http://www.bestspottingscopereviews....-eyepieces.php

At 13x, the 13 - 40x MC II zoom (and the 13 - 30x MC, too) has a field of view of 52 m @ 1000 m.

The 20x MC II fixed eyepiece offers 63 m @ 1000 m, so it both gives a larger field of view and greater magnification.

The 27x MC II fixed eyepiece yields 47 m @ 1000 m.

Comparing this to my Kowa TSN-883 with the TE-11WZ zoom eyepiece, I only get 42 m @ 1000 m there for the minimum of 25x.

My 8x42 binoculars provide 110 m @ 1000 m, at a much lower magnification of course, so that's not entirely comparable.

My impression is that the difference between 42m and 52 m @ 1000 m is quite pronounced. I guess on the ED50, I might be happy with 27x fixed with regard to magnification, but the field of view would actually be smaller than the 13 - 40x zoom's at the short end. The wide angle view of the 20x fixed is quite tempting, but on the other hand, 20x is not all that much magnification. Of course, it would depend on the environment in which one is using it ...

Regards,

Henning
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Old Tuesday 20th March 2018, 10:09   #25
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Hi Andrew,



I just found this overview:

http://www.bestspottingscopereviews....-eyepieces.php

At 13x, the 13 - 40x MC II zoom (and the 13 - 30x MC, too) has a field of view of 52 m @ 1000 m.

The 20x MC II fixed eyepiece offers 63 m @ 1000 m, so it both gives a larger field of view and greater magnification.

The 27x MC II fixed eyepiece yields 47 m @ 1000 m.

Comparing this to my Kowa TSN-883 with the TE-11WZ zoom eyepiece, I only get 42 m @ 1000 m there for the minimum of 25x.

My 8x42 binoculars provide 110 m @ 1000 m, at a much lower magnification of course, so that's not entirely comparable.

My impression is that the difference between 42m and 52 m @ 1000 m is quite pronounced. I guess on the ED50, I might be happy with 27x fixed with regard to magnification, but the field of view would actually be smaller than the 13 - 40x zoom's at the short end. The wide angle view of the 20x fixed is quite tempting, but on the other hand, 20x is not all that much magnification. Of course, it would depend on the environment in which one is using it ...

Regards,

Henning
There's always going to be a compromise between magnification and field of view but, given that the point of having a scope is mainly to use higher magnifications that enable you to see a lot more than binoculars, I'd personally go for more than double the magnification at the sacrifice of a bit of field of view. 13x isn't much more magnification than most binoculars and the 27x is very satisfyingly wide for its magnification.
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