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Vintage Binoculars

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Old Saturday 24th August 2013, 23:36   #101
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Obviously with the weight of these things they must have been mounted by attaching something to the central bar. I have always been puzzled why they were designed to look just like a scaled up version of the 7x50 and 10x70 model.
The eye relief on the 10X70 is terrible even without wearing glasses with the rubber faceshield on. Once removed, though, there's a lot and it's easy to use with or without glasses.

It looks very much like the Ross Binoprism No. 5 7X50 because both are Porro II with the field lens cemented to the prism for max light transmission. When it was designed in the 1930's the British were not coating binoculars and a Porro II system with field lens cemented gave the best light transmission.

I'd like to see how the 10X80 was mounted. Seeger (grey book page 364) shows one with the original tripod adapter but notes the base plate is not original. Then there is this picture from a 1966 Charles Frank catalog, but I don't think the tripod it's on is correct for it. Note the Ross gunsight bino is mounted on the same tripod which probably isn't original to it either: http://www.flickr.com/photos/binocwpg/9587263574/
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Old Sunday 25th August 2013, 01:00   #102
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45 or 65 seems to be dirt cheap for those models back in 1966. However, looking back, I remember that I started working for Lloyds Bank in October 1965 and my salary was 395 a year, so maybe it wasn't that cheap! I think I am going to have to buy one one of those Seeger books if I can find one. Getting my wife to translate it for me is another challenge!
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Old Sunday 25th August 2013, 02:49   #103
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Seeger's grey book is expensive but well worth it if you're interested in military binoculars. There are a few chapters in English and the picture descriptions which can be lengthy are also translated. Europa.com has English translations of several chapters, and if everything else fails there's Google Translate. I've become fairly proficient at typing in German.
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Old Sunday 25th August 2013, 12:44   #104
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. In old movies about World War II you quite often see the 10 x 80 Ross binoculars.

They may be shown in the film Battle of the River Plate I think they are mounted here on the top deck of the British warships.
There are many other types of binocular shown in this movie and many other movies.
Also several varieties of ship telescopes.

My memory might be faulty but I think I paid 15 for the 1070 monocular about 1965.
This was a nice instrument to use two-handed.

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Old Monday 7th October 2013, 20:39   #105
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Anyone else love Hartmann Binoculars?

I just bought another Hartmann Polerim, an 8x40 this time,superb optics yet again, I already have an 7x35 which is wonderful to use and a 6x30, both excellent, I am always impressed by Hartmann optics, considering they were pretty much a budget binocular of their time, far cheaper than Zeiss, Leica etc, but able to compare very favorably with the best. I would so love to get one of the compact series 7x35 or a bernina 7x50 or 8x60.
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Old Friday 11th October 2013, 18:44   #106
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If you're in Canada, keep an eye out for "Carl Wetzlar Imperial" Utrawide 7x35s.
That's an "erstaz zeiss" branding sold in Canadian K-Marts long ago.
Shaky branding, but they are my top wide 7x35s! Very high on my
contrast/focus test.
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Old Saturday 12th October 2013, 19:31   #107
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If you're in Canada, keep an eye out for "Carl Wetzlar Imperial" Utrawide 7x35s.
That's an "erstaz zeiss" branding sold in Canadian K-Marts long ago.
Shaky branding, but they are my top wide 7x35s! Very high on my
contrast/focus test.
Thanks, i'm in the UK, but sometimes see carl wetzlar bins for sale, quite cheap, I didn't know anything about them, but always thought it unlikely they were a german "wetzlar" company.
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Old Saturday 12th October 2013, 20:24   #108
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Bencw,
Yes,I like the Hartmanns also. I have visited the company in Wetzlar quite a few times when they still produced binoculars. I also kept contact with mr. Hartmann and I have published the history of the company on Peter Abrahams WEB-site after giving a lecture about the company at a meeting of the Binocular History Society in Vancouver.
The Hartmanns are well made and their optical performance is outstanding, sometimes better then the contemporary Zeiss, Leica and Swarovski instruments as I could show from our investigation of the performance of these binoculars.
Gijs
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Old Saturday 12th October 2013, 20:32   #109
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Bencw,
Yes,I like the Hartmanns also. I have visited the company in Wetzlar quite a few times when they still produced binoculars. I also kept contact with mr. Hartmann and I have published the history of the company on Peter Abrahams WEB-site after giving a lecture about the company at a meeting of the Binocular History Society in Vancouver.
The Hartmanns are well made and their optical performance is outstanding, sometimes better then the contemporary Zeiss, Leica and Swarovski instruments as I could show from our investigation of the performance of these binoculars.
Gijs
Hi Gijs,
Thanks for info, I will look up the history you have published, I am very interested. It is such a shame Hartmann ceased production, I really believe they could compete with the best if still around.
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Old Tuesday 15th October 2013, 13:17   #110
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Another nice charity shop buy, Chinon 7x35 porro

Picked another cheap charity shop bin up, I cant seem to pass them by. This is quite an attractive binocular, a vintage Chinon Countryman 7x35, made in Japan, in terrific condition except very slightly out of alignment, which I hope a tweak of the objectives should fix. Rubber eye cups, glass is all good, it is an unusual chocolate brown in color all over, has a good wide FOV and seems to have clear sharp image, slight alignment issue apart. It says in the leaflet that the lenses have molecular gold coatings.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/
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Old Tuesday 15th October 2013, 21:36   #111
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. In the 60s and 70s there were many 735 extra wide-angle binoculars with 11 fields. The Japanese ones were often quite well made but the Korean ones were rather poor.

It is a great shame that there are no modern well-made 7 x 35 extra wide-angle binoculars with 11 fields with good glass and good modern multi-coatings.

Anyway that is a nice find. I think I've seen this model and may even have had one of those at one time.
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Old Wednesday 16th October 2013, 09:38   #112
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.
It is a great shame that there are no modern well-made 7 x 35 extra wide-angle binoculars with 11 fields with good glass and good modern multi-coatings.
Anyway that is a nice find. I think I've seen this model and may even have had one of those at one time.
Cheers Binastro,
Yes, I would personally love to see one of the top 4 have the nerve to just divert their attention from roof's for a second and produce a new compact design Porro, ex wide 7x35 with ED glass and modern multi-coatings. Would be first in the line to buy but perhaps the line might be quite short, maybe a limited edition would sell well though.

Last edited by Bencw : Wednesday 16th October 2013 at 09:51.
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Old Wednesday 16th October 2013, 14:42   #113
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. If there were a new 735 extra wide-angle binocular with 11.0 field it probably would not be very compact as it would probably need large prisms.
But even so with good eyepiece design the performance could be much better than the older 735 extrawide angles and with modern good-quality glass and high-quality multi-coatings it would be very nice.
Personally, I would prefer a medium quality binocular rather than a very expensive top-quality. However, very good quality Porro prism binoculars seem to be a lot cheaper than the top-quality roof prisms so in this case I would be quite prepared to pay say 500 for a modern 735 extra wide-angle binocular if it was really good and may be 250 for one not quite so good.
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Old Friday 18th October 2013, 21:21   #114
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Originally Posted by Gijs van Ginkel View Post
Bencw,
Yes,I like the Hartmanns also. I have visited the company in Wetzlar quite a few times when they still produced binoculars. I also kept contact with mr. Hartmann and I have published the history of the company on Peter Abrahams WEB-site after giving a lecture about the company at a meeting of the Binocular History Society in Vancouver.
The Hartmanns are well made and their optical performance is outstanding, sometimes better then the contemporary Zeiss, Leica and Swarovski instruments as I could show from our investigation of the performance of these binoculars.
Gijs
I have two pair of Hartmann-Optik 8x30 bins and they are excellent. In a side by side comparison to the Zeiss Jena and Leitz Binuxit they compared favorably. They are indeed a bargin if you can find a pair in good condition under $100.
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Old Saturday 19th October 2013, 14:30   #115
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I have two pair of Hartmann-Optik 8x30 bins and they are excellent. In a side by side comparison to the Zeiss Jena and Leitz Binuxit they compared favorably. They are indeed a bargain if you can find a pair in good condition under $100.
Hi Coolhand,

I agree, I have Hartmanns, and a Binuxit and Jenoptems, and the Hartmanns compare very well, in fact I only rate my 8x30B Zeiss Oberkochen as being optically any better, mine are Polerims, and the 7x35 has superb fov ,it is the most easy and comfortable to use porro I have, and that's including the Oberkochen . Which models do you have?
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Old Sunday 20th October 2013, 13:48   #116
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I agree, I have Hartmanns, and a Binuxit and Jenoptems, and the Hartmanns compare very well, in fact I only rate my 8x30B Zeiss Oberkochen as being optically any better, mine are Polerims, and the 7x35 has superb fov ,it is the most easy and comfortable to use porro I have, and that's including the Oberkochen . Which models do you have?
The Polerims were the "cheap" bins Hartmann produced. Good, but not their top range. If you ever have a chance to buy one of the late Berninas (especially the 8x30 and the 7x42), do it. The Berninas were really excellent binoculars.

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Old Sunday 20th October 2013, 17:14   #117
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Dear Hermann,
Hartmann made three series of binoculars.
-1- Porlerim 6x30, 8x30, 8x30 WW, 8x40 and 10x40WW

-2- Compact (very beautiful) 6x30WW, 8X30WW, 7X35WW, 8X40WW, 10X40WW and 7x42WW

-3- BERNINA (also very beautiful) 7x50, 10x50, 8X60WW, 10x50WW, 10X60WW, 12X60WW, 16X60WW, 25X80WW and a monocular 30x80WW

WW=weitwinkel (wide-angle)
Different models from the three series were also made as monoculars. The Compact and Bernina's were made with high eyerelief for spectacle users.
Gijs
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Old Sunday 20th October 2013, 18:58   #118
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Dear Hermann,
Hartmann made three series of binoculars.
-1- Porlerim 6x30, 8x30, 8x30 WW, 8x40 and 10x40WW

-2- Compact (very beautiful) 6x30WW, 8X30WW, 7X35WW, 8X40WW, 10X40WW and 7x42WW

-3- BERNINA (also very beautiful) 7x50, 10x50, 8X60WW, 10x50WW, 10X60WW, 12X60WW, 16X60WW, 25X80WW and a monocular 30x80WW

WW=weitwinkel (wide-angle)
Different models from the three series were also made as monoculars. The Compact and Bernina's were made with high eyerelief for spectacle users.
Thanks, Gijs. You're right, of course. I mixed up the Compacts and the Berninas. It's quite a few years ago that I last used one of the Hartmanns. I know two of the Compacts (8x30WW and 7x42WW) and two of the Berninas (8x60WW and 12x60WW), all very fine binoculars. I could kick myself that I didn't get the 7x42 after I tried it back in the 1980s. One of the nicest 7x42s I ever tried.

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Old Sunday 20th October 2013, 20:15   #119
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Dear Hermann,
I bought a 7x42 Compact and is a really a very fine binocular, but the 7x35 Compact was my favorite for some time . I regret not to have bought the 8x60WW Bernina, but one can not have everything in life.
Gijs
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Old Sunday 20th October 2013, 21:58   #120
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Originally Posted by Gijs van Ginkel View Post
Dear Hermann,
Hartmann made three series of binoculars.
-1- Porlerim 6x30, 8x30, 8x30 WW, 8x40 and 10x40WW

-2- Compact (very beautiful) 6x30WW, 8X30WW, 7X35WW, 8X40WW, 10X40WW and 7x42WW

-3- BERNINA (also very beautiful) 7x50, 10x50, 8X60WW, 10x50WW, 10X60WW, 12X60WW, 16X60WW, 25X80WW and a monocular 30x80WW

WW=weitwinkel (wide-angle)
Different models from the three series were also made as monoculars. The Compact and Bernina's were made with high eyerelief for spectacle users.
Gijs

Hartmann made 8x30's and 8x40's in the Bernina line as well, see pics. Note that the 8x30 is ww, the 8x40 is not.

Something I've noticed is some variety in appearance in the Bernina's. Notably in the diameter of the eye lens and in the knurling of the diopter ring. Were the Bernina's possibly updated at some point in time?

With respect to (high) eye relief, I don't experience anything unusual in my Bernina 8x30 specimen, it's like all older porro's from the 1950's and '60's. However what's unusual is the strong yellow cast in the image, almost in the order of the infamous KOMZ 7x30. Could be a design trait, but also outgassing. Any idea Gijs?

Renze
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Old Monday 21st October 2013, 05:19   #121
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Gentlemen - This is my experience with 7x35 wide angle porros. The Bushnell Rangemaster 10 degree (525 feet) model made by Fuji Photo Optical, which was imported about 50-60 years ago to the US, is the best of any 7x35 wide angle I have examined. It has a very wide sweet spot, an incredible 3-D image, and first rate resolution across the entire field. With the eye cups removed, eye glass wearers can see most of the field. When used with an extender, 2.5x or 3x, it is surprising effective as a spotting scope. Perhaps some of you have not had the opportunity to look through this model. Used ones for sale are hard to find.
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Old Monday 21st October 2013, 12:35   #122
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Dear Hermann,
I bought a 7x42 Compact and is a really a very fine binocular, but the 7x35 Compact was my favorite for some time . I regret not to have bought the 8x60WW Bernina, but one can not have everything in life.
Gijs
That is the one I most desire, the 7x35 Compact, or 8x30. Although I would snap up almost any Hartmann in good condition, I always look out for them but you never hardly see a Compact or Bernina come up for sale these days.
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Old Monday 21st October 2013, 15:42   #123
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[quote=Renze de Vries;2853167...However what's unusual is the strong yellow cast in the image, almost in the order of the infamous KOMZ 7x30. Could be a design trait, but also outgassing...

Renze[/QUOTE]

Hello Renze,

Could it be aging Canadian Balsam? This was a problem with Leitz binoculars in the early 1950's.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur
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Last edited by Pinewood : Monday 21st October 2013 at 18:38.
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Old Monday 21st October 2013, 16:25   #124
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Hello Renze,
Yes, Hartmann offers surprises, since the flyers I have received from mr. Hartmann, when I was visiting the company did not mention the 8x30WW Bernina and the 8x40 Bernina, but also not the 8x60WW Bernina and not their 8x30 Hartmann Tourist, so it is quite well possible that other Hartmann models are still around. With regard to the yellow cast of the image, I will look in the older transmission spectra we have measured to see whether that is the case in the models we have investigated. The suggestion that the yellowing is caused by ageing Canada balsem in the older Hartmann models sounds likely, but in later years that lens cement was not used anymore.
Gijs
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Old Tuesday 22nd October 2013, 23:58   #125
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Hi Coolhand,

I agree, I have Hartmanns, and a Binuxit and Jenoptems, and the Hartmanns compare very well, in fact I only rate my 8x30B Zeiss Oberkochen as being optically any better, mine are Polerims, and the 7x35 has superb fov ,it is the most easy and comfortable to use porro I have, and that's including the Oberkochen . Which models do you have?
Mine are 8x30 Porlerims. They are wide angle, the older one has wide angle written in English and has a serial number starting with 29, the other has wide angle written in German and has a serial number starting with 73. I also have a pair of Zeiss Oberkochen and these Hartmanns are only a slight notch below in optical performance but about equal in terms of build quality. Very impressive binoculars.
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