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We love the optics. What about the styling? (1 Viewer)

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spitfiretriple

Well-known member
Zen-Ray: We love the optics. What about the styling?

Okay, styling ranks low on our list of priorities. But, given that we are happy with the optics, what would we change, if anything, about the styling?

My ha'porth?

1. I'd prefer black rather than olive green
2. I'd prefer a less fussy design. I prefer the clean lines of the Viking ED, Minox, or of course, Swarovski, which is who they are all copying. NB I prefer the cleaner styling of the "bridge" elements of the Viking and Minox to that of the Swaro (and its Zen-Ray lookalike)

PS If anyone can tell me how to insert bigger pics than this, please do. I've tried BB code, and the little html I know, no joy.
 

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Open bridge is becoming more and more popular, and I do kind of like the feel of it in my hands. The one thing about open bridge is that when mounted on a monopod or tripod, the mount is at the very front of the bins, and they hang, seemingly precariously (to me) off the front mount; the leverage and resultant downward twisting force on the mount bothers me. A similar force is generated when mounting single bridge bins, but the potentially damaging leverage is considerably less, as the mount is further back, closer to the center of gravity of the bins. No problems with it so far, I'm just very careful, but wonder if it bothers anyone else, or if it has resulted in damage. In this "center of gravity" issue, the safest mounting type of all is the porro type, as used on Nikon SE's. It's a bit more fussy to use, but provides a very safe and secure mounting. I wistfully dream of a Zen porro, modernized SE killer. :t: And while we're talking about styling, Zen-Ray is probably not about to drop the Zen-Ray name, which I don't think is doing them any good, but I'd be happy with a compromise, if they'd just call them Zen, instead of Zen-Ray. It eliminates the suggestion of a 1930's sci-fi weapon used by spacemen. Hmmm ..... with no new bins to talk about, we've degenerated into talking about spacemen.

marty
 
Good point about the monopod/~ location. Though small low-power bins like these will spend little if any of their time on a monopod/~.

Agree that the open bridge design is becoming steadily more popular. And for good reasons. But whilst an open bridge clearly affects the look of the bin, I was thinking beyond that, to the colour, texture, and shaping of the bin as a whole. I myself, for example, don't care for the way that Swarovski, and Zen-Ray, tries to make the double bridge look like a "whole". I prefer the "two separate sections" look of the Viking and Minox. It seems more honest somehow.

Also agree that when the optics are as good as they are, we are sometimes reduced to discussing relative trivialities, such as spaceman names or styling. Nevertheless, in the world of consumer electronics, Apple is just one of many competing manufacturers, most with innovative and clever products that work well. But Apple goes further than most of its competitors, it demands that all its products don't just work well, but look good and feel good. Apple's success may have more than a little to do with that philosophy...

Zen-Ray's situation is rather special, though hardly unique. It is a new entrant in a mature market. It has decided, with the ED2s at least, to go for the high end of the market - which is difficult without an established brand name to support the premium prices needed to pay for the premium quality. Rather than try to establish itself straight away, it has effectively copied the styling of one of the market leaders - Swarovski. I can understand why Charles has done this. But now, as the Zen-Ray name becomes increasingly well-known among the cognoscenti, it would be nice to see Zen-Ray's next move be to distance its styling from that of a wannabee.
 
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spitfiretriple said:
Good point about the monopod/~ location. Though small low-power bins like these will spend little if any of their time on a monopod/~.

Agree that the open bridge design is becoming steadily more popular. And for good reasons. But whilst an open bridge clearly affects the look of the bin, I was thinking beyond that, to the colour, texture, and shaping of the bin as a whole. I myself, for example, don't care for the way that Swarovski, and Zen-Ray, tries to make the double bridge look like a "whole". I prefer the "two separate sections" look of the Viking and Minox.
Click to expand...

I have 7, 8, & 10X, and for the 10X, use at least a monopod most of the time with them. Handheld, the extra 25%+ jitteryness with the 10's makes it a less satisfying view than with handheld 7's or 8's, so I rarely use the 10's without support.

Sorry if it looks like I tried to hijack your thread, going off into non-styling concerns. I guess I looked at this as a more general "everything but optics" thread. As to color and the "open bridge look", don't have much to add. Green's ok with me, and they all look like binoculars to me I guess. No accounting for taste lol!
 
spitfiretriple said:
Okay, styling ranks low on our list of priorities. But, given that we are happy with the optics, what would we change, if anything, about the styling?

My ha'porth?

1. I'd prefer black rather than olive green
2. I'd prefer a less fussy design. I prefer the clean lines of the Viking ED, Minox, or of course, Swarovski, which is who they are all copying. NB I prefer the cleaner styling of the "bridge" elements of the Viking and Minox to that of the Swaro (and its Zen-Ray lookalike)

PS If anyone can tell me how to insert bigger pics than this, please do. I've tried BB code, and the little html I know, no joy.
Click to expand...

we are all different. I prefer green over the black. When checking binoculars in store, I found green body had less reflection than black under the same lighting condition. I haven't never seen the Viking binoculars in the states. The handling of open hinge from both of my ZEN binoculars is rather good. My 10x43ED2 feels lighter than the summit, despite of the fact that they weigh the same.
 
Re: styling only. I bought one Atlas Intrepid (8x42) for my wife and I have a Zen 8x42 ED2. I haven't used either, except around the house, but .... Strangely, the Atlas seem a little more comfortable to hold, maybe its the slightly lighter weight (its only a half ounce but feels more than a little lighter) and smooth armor ( I guess I don't like the "dots" on the Zen Rays as much as I thought). Both look "cool" to me but that's personal preference of course ( I like the looks of the Vortex Razor also, which is even more of a Swaro clone). I like the green over the black (the Zens are a brighter green and could be toned down a notch, but they do look more distinctive). This is more functional than design, but the Zens have a tapered lens cap and the Intrepids more square.
 
I showed your photos to OH and she said they all look the same. Then I asked her to look through my ZR ED2 and my SV EL, and she said the view was exactly the same. Either she´s terribly unobservant or we´ve all gone mad.
 
Sancho said:
I showed your photos to OH and she said they all look the same. Then I asked her to look through my ZR ED2 and my SV EL, and she said the view was exactly the same. Either she´s terribly unobservant or we´ve all gone mad.
Click to expand...

No question... we've all gone mad!

Cheers
 
Sancho said:
I showed your photos to OH and she said they all look the same. Then I asked her to look through my ZR ED2 and my SV EL, and she said the view was exactly the same. Either she´s terribly unobservant or we´ve all gone mad.
Click to expand...

I had a similar issue with the "stiff Zen focuser" and my wife tried the two different sets (slow and fast focus ... or nice and stiff focus). "They're both the same" she said.

Clearly someone is wrong ... ;)
 
Does anyone remember Vauxhall's (General Motors') ad for the Victor FB saloon (sedan) back in the 1960s, "The clean line of good design"? Or perhaps, "Less is more"? There's a good reason why Leica have a simple red dot, and Zeiss just their little blue logo: they know how to be modestly elegant by understatement. Likewise the Nikon SE, small gold lettering, Pentax similarly, and Minox coyly minimal too. Alongside these, the Swarovski seems almost vulgar, name 'writ large' and swooping hawk (habicht) although the optics are exceptional, to be fair. The top marques get top marks for their styling finesse and brevity: they don't need to label their goods "super duper fantastic plus" 'in yer face'. I agree that Zen-Ray might benefit from switching to 'Zen' (enlightened insight); it would fit well with ED glass and multicoating... As to colour, I don't mind green, as long as it's on the dark side (olive) and not too garish. 'Good taste' is not as evident these days as it used to be (Leitz Trinovid, Hensoldt Dialyt): we live in a 'bling' world of 'designer labels' and gauche advertising. Whatever happened to 'KISS' (Keep it Simple, Stupid!) ?
 
Kevin Purcell said:
I had a similar issue with the "stiff Zen focuser" and my wife tried the two different sets (slow and fast focus ... or nice and stiff focus). "They're both the same" she said.

Clearly someone is wrong ... ;)
Click to expand...

Kevin:

Lets be serious here, do you consider opinions like that to be advice to you
or others here on this forum?
Or, by golly that makes it, the ZR is the best!!

Jerry
 
Kevin Purcell said:
I had a similar issue with the "stiff Zen focuser" and my wife tried the two different sets (slow and fast focus ... or nice and stiff focus). "They're both the same" she said.

Clearly someone is wrong ... ;)
Click to expand...

This is just begging for an off-color response, but MUST...NOT...TAKE...THE...BAIT...
 
Steve C said:
Jerry,

Maybe you need to get serious ...

Kevin simply illustrated the point that one person, his wife, thought the different focus tension was no different, while another person (Kevin) thought they were different. Getting serious, it simply gets down to the fact that people chose their optics for ALL sorts of reasons. Price, brand name, good dealer, good warranty, what they percieve as a good focus, magnification, overall size, all sorts of stuff. Was it his mere mention of a brand you don't like or what?
Click to expand...

Steve:

If you must know I trust Kevins opinions on binoculars better than his wifes,
but I maybe should not come to a quick conclusion, she may be as experienced as he is. But that is probably not the case.

Relax. ;)

Jerry
 
Jerry,

Sorry for that. You know there are days... I did not think I punched the submit button. I realize a few minutes ago...that I did send the thing. By then Fireform had pointed out the obvious, and you had posted back too. Apology offered and post deleted. There's evidently more stress on the local front and it is getting me more than I realized.
 
Steve C said:
Jerry,

Sorry for that. You know there are days... I did not think I punched the submit button. I realize a few minutes ago...that I did send the thing. By then Fireform had pointed out the obvious, and you had posted back too. Apology offered and post deleted. There's evidently more stress on the local front and it is getting me more than I realized.
Click to expand...

Steve:

No problem here, we all have our moments. These forums can give us all a chance to give a little poke of fun now and then. I can be a little needling at times, just ask my wife.
Recently, I follow like you do the optics review over on the Fire, that includes a 14 year old, as an optic reviewer, has left me scratching my head. Lots of
good experience there I'm thinking.
It looks like a good case of consider the source. ;)

Jerry
 
NDhunter said:
Steve: I follow like you do the optics review over on the Fire, that includes a 14 year old, as an optic reviewer, has left me scratching my head. Lots of good experience there I'm thinking.
It looks like a good case of consider the source. ;)

Jerry
Click to expand...

Yeah, that was a sort of unique test. I enjoyed it a lot and really did like the relationship they came up with on score points in relation to optics cost. Now if the score points could be... Oh well.
 
Minor changes to the Zen 7x36 ED2

spitfiretriple said:
Okay, styling ranks low on our list of priorities. But, given that we are happy with the optics, what would we change, if anything, about the styling?

My ha'porth?

1. I'd prefer black rather than olive green
2. I'd prefer a less fussy design. I prefer the clean lines of the Viking ED, Minox, or of course, Swarovski, which is who they are all copying. NB I prefer the cleaner styling of the "bridge" elements of the Viking and Minox to that of the Swaro (and its Zen-Ray lookalike)

PS If anyone can tell me how to insert bigger pics than this, please do. I've tried BB code, and the little html I know, no joy.
Click to expand...
For those who are interested Charles of Zen Ray must have read this post & the others about the stiff focusing wheel because I have compared two of the Zens 7x36 ED2 I now have, one purchased in the first week of Feb. 2010 & the other which I just received was purchased the last week in Feb. 2010. The later one is the most current & up todate. The lazer printing on the one barrel is no longer put there & the focus wheel is alot less stiff to use ...... gwen
 
I was in Manhattan last week and and realized Cameraland NY was only 2 blocks from my hotel so popped in to checkout the shop and to get my first looks at a ZR 8x43 ED2. FWIW, Cameraland NY seemed to be a nice small shop with very polite and helpful staff (Lenworth Scott). Definitely a step up from other Midtown camera stores and with not much smaller floorspace than Adorama. I would not hesitate to place an online order with them.

Anyway, the ZR ED2 seemed surprisingly light given its bulky appearance. Really could not evaluate the optics objectively other than to say I needed to set the eyecups to the second postion for optimum FoV with no standout aberrations. Perhaps it was the oversized focus knob, but I got the ergonomic sensation of having to use a narrow IPD setting. Hard to put my finger on it exactly, maybe it was the open bridge, but the "illusion" of a large heavy binocular that actually felt lightweight and "small" just seemed strange.
 
Last edited:
Kevin Purcell said:
I had a similar issue with the "stiff Zen focuser" and my wife tried the two different sets (slow and fast focus ... or nice and stiff focus). "They're both the same" she said.

Clearly someone is wrong ... ;)
Click to expand...

I ordered a pair of 7x36 EDII to compare them to a set of Leupold 8x32 Gold Rings and I'm returning the Zens. Too many cons to list but the focus ring was very sloppy. Once it stopped, there was considerable play back and forth before it would engage again. Even if it had been tight, it wouldn't have been enough to keep them.
 
RJM said:
Anyway, the ZR ED2 seemed surprisingly light given its bulky appearance. Really could not evaluate the optics objectively other than to say I needed to set the eyecups to the second postion for optimum FoV with no standout aberrations. Perhaps it was the oversized focus knob, but I got the ergonomic sensation of having to use a narrow IPD setting. Hard to put my finger on it exactly, maybe it was the open bridge, but the "illusion" of a large heavy binocular that actually felt lightweight and "small" just seemed strange.
Click to expand...


You are not the only one. I recently purchased a pair of 8x42 VISTA. It is 3 oz lighter than 8x43 ED I have. But the ED feels about the same weight as VISTA. Don't know if it is better balance of center of gravity or better ergonomics of open hinge design (or both). I did notice that I wrapped my palm and fingers around the barrel when I held the ED binoculars with one hand so it pretty much rested on my palm. But with close hinge binoculars, I needed to use my thumb to support the weight when I held it with one hand. Don't know if that explains why ED feels lighter than it truly is.
 
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