Gull (1 Viewer)

gerdwichers8 · Jul 20, 2006

I was not referring to the pale iris of the bird in the thread but to the saying of Mark that the majority of Caspians do have a dark iris, while Mark was referring to the bird in the thread. He meant to argue that it was not a Caspian because of the lack of that feature and made it imply that the thread bird was a Herring.

The dark iris he meant is the dark iris I refered to. Again, the lack of a dark iris made him conclude it not to be a Caspian.
Thats when I said: For the iris, thats right on an Armenian and not for a Caspian.

nirofo · Jul 21, 2006

lou salomon said:
i got an enfuriated mail allready threatening me exactly with an attorney! (a female one actually!)
but, hey, let's stay cool. is there anybody else thinking the same, that this bird is ill? ( in romania there has been a big anti-bird-flu-campaign in the last weeks)

You have had the gall to use someone elses copyright photograph without first obtaining permission, you have been found out! Now, do the decent thing by contacting the photographer or their agent, obtain their permission to use the photo in retrospect, or delete the photo, submit your humble apologies and swear to never use another photograph without permission again, ever!

It is very annoying and costly to see your hard earned photographs published without your consent, it is also illegal. I know, I have fallen foul of this myself, where a well known agency I thought was acting on my behalf was actually publishing my photos without informing me.

nirofo.

gerdwichers8 · Jul 21, 2006

But ..he(Marks) would be done short if not the sentences in the book of Malling Olsen & Larsson : " Eyes small, usually darkish and beady" and for adult: "eyes are darkish"
and his own experience would not be taken in consideration for his rejecting of the species.
And..this debate has to replace the many, many pictures of more darkish eyed birds of the species IF the debate ends with Caspian for the first bird.

Since I am not the expert..

gerdwichers8 · Jul 21, 2006

Oh, hello there nirofo..
I have a clue those two know one another a bit more close, so, there is not so much of a problem as you may think.

nirofo · Jul 21, 2006

gerdwichers8 said:
Oh, hello there nirofo..
I have a clue those two know one another a bit more close, so, there is not so much of a problem as you may think.

OK, It just seemed that there was a dispute about copyright.

nirofo.

lou salomon · Jul 21, 2006

thanks gerd, sometimes i'm a bit slow on the uptake (and my head got too hot last night :storm: )

about the original adult bird - yes, i posted it mainly because of its pale irises and because our friend fantana (who is marrying tomorrow

) was initially doubting it was a caspian. originally i thought the bird being ill and thus the loss of pigmentation in iris and leg colour. see this bird which had swallowed an angler's hook:
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=45977&highlight=gheorghe

but it seems that such featherless patches on the forehead are normal when molting head. i have seen other caspians in the d. delta with pale irises and with their usual light yellow legs in may this year. since such ind. seem to be rare wintering in western europe (with pale eyes) it would be of interest: are those originating from more easterly populations and is it true that ponticus birds (ukranian) have such a big percentage of pale eyed birds?
btw. joszef and me know each other very well...

JANJ · Jul 21, 2006

Just for the sake of impression of cachinnans at different times of year and so on.

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=3359

pale iris, but notice the small eye:

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=5489

http://cyberbirding.uib.no/gull/

http://christian.maliverney.oiseaux.net/caspian.gull.1.html

http://users.skynet.be/ch-web/photos/larcac010.htm

http://www.birdclubkatwijk.nl/bck/galleries/galleriesdetails.asp?id=84

JanJ

Szabo Jozsef · Jul 24, 2006

lou salomon said:
btw. joszef and me know each other very well...

thats right, and the lawyer with whom I was frightening Lou, is actually my wife , hope you don't mind for this o

joke. but still the gull was tricky. Picture was taken in the Danube delta close to Mila 23, about a year ago (same time of the year).
Jozsef

JANJ · Jul 25, 2006

Just to show a fresh juvenile Caspian Gull, as to be compared to Bob,s Yellow-legged.

http://www.artportalen.se/artportalen/gallery/image.aspx?obsid=6773680

JanJ

lou salomon · Jul 25, 2006

thanks. it really looks different to bob's. did you find any ad caspian with as pale eyes as joszefs?

JANJ · Jul 25, 2006

Click on the news archive here, and enjoy the fine Caspian Gulls, younger ones.

http://www.birdingcatalonia.com/rarities/

JanJ

JANJ · Jul 25, 2006

Click on the Caspian Gull, and look at the last one, and notice the small looking eye.

http://www.republika.pl/digiscoping/foto_2.htm

and the adult here:

http://www.maudoc.com/verona/vr_latestph0601.htm

http://www23.tok2.com/home/jgull/OmanGulls/cachinnans01.htm

JanJ

lou salomon · Jul 25, 2006

thank you jan. much appreciated. especially the polish gull has a very pale eye, yellowish. i'm pretty sure, joszef's gull was a moulting caspian and not an argentatus. and the spanish page is really enjoyable.

Atricapilla · Jul 25, 2006

JANJ said:
Click on the Caspian Gull, and look at the last one, and notice the small looking eye.

http://www.republika.pl/digiscoping/foto_2.htm

and the adult here:

http://www.maudoc.com/verona/vr_latestph0601.htm

http://www23.tok2.com/home/jgull/OmanGulls/cachinnans01.htm

JanJ

Some really great sites there Jan .

lou salomon · Jul 26, 2006

this is another adult caspian from the danube delta with very light irises. almost forgot about it (i've posted it already in BF!) - just for completion and for those who haven't yet seen caspians with pale eyes.

Ross Ahmed · Jul 26, 2006

I haven't read the thread properly but a few people seem to be labelling the initial adult gull as a Caspian Gull - surely not?

The heavy bill, greenish base to the bill, dark-grey uppertarts and large amount of white in the primaries give me a strong impression of argentatus Herring Gull.

JANJ · Jul 26, 2006

Revisiting the adult gull who started this thread, and which hasn´t been properly identified, I would say, as before, that it doesn´t strike me as a Caspian Gull in a number of ways. Head is in moult, bill looks to thick, and (perhaps) slightly to strongly curved at the tip, but the long billed impression is due to moult. Eye looks large and the p-projection short (p10 intact)

This Caspian (Feb) has a powefull bill, which males generally has:

http://www.artportalen.se/artportalen/gallery/images/swe/birds/2006/large/6614.jpg

same again:

http://www.artportalen.se/artportalen/gallery/images/swe/birds/2006/large/6613.jpg

and it´s p10 pattern:

http://www.artportalen.se/artportalen/gallery/images/swe/birds/2006/large/6618.jpg

and look at this:

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=3359

and this:

http://www.gull-watching.com/photo-127428-cach40_jpg.html

The flatish back, with no tertial step, gives impression of Caspian.
Conclusion for me is, a not conclusive Caspian, could be a Herring.

JanJ

lou salomon · Jul 26, 2006

well, i haven't seen the bird live, but must say that there are dwelling a lot of odd beasts in the d-delta which i personally think are caspians. quod erit demonstrandum. i just find it very unprobable that this is an argentatus - never recorded in romania in july! totally, there are maybe 5 sure records of herring gull, which of course doesn't mean anything - very few of the already small number of native birders are able and willing to id them. ok, i don't wanna id it by probability of course, just have to say that it looks similar to many of the breeding birds there which i have seen - untypical, unclassic caspians. end of sermon.

JANJ · Jul 26, 2006

Lou, as mentioned earlier in other Caspian Gull threads, I would agree that Caspian doesn´t always live up to what we usually expect them to look like, especially because many usually see them in winter in the west! The one you show in #115 there is no doubt what it is. Shown in some of the linked Caspian here, and many observed in the field, both in Scandinavia and abroad, shows rather clear that Caspian can look short-legged, and sometimes not so thin-legged (often tibia), have perfectly rounded crown (often females), or michahellis like head shape and so on. Jizz (variable) and call is far the best way to recognize Caspian Gull and to see many of them, not to mention Herring Gulls, which sometimes can look, and have a primary pattern rather similar to Caspian! One should bare in mind that not all can be identified! The subject gull here is tricky, because it´s on the breeding grounds, where some don´t usually see them, although you can find Caspian Gulls here in summer as well, but fewer.

JanJ

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