• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Trogons (1 Viewer)

49bentley

Well-known member
Canada
Can someone please confirm that pic #1 & 2 is a male Elegant Trogon and #3, 4, 5 is female Black-throated Trogon? Taken at Albergue Heliconias Lodge in Costa Rica in January.
Thanks
Chris
 

Attachments

  • 0A0A2014.jpg
    0A0A2014.jpg
    97.4 KB · Views: 49
  • 0A0A2015.jpg
    0A0A2015.jpg
    345.5 KB · Views: 57
  • 0A0A2017.jpg
    0A0A2017.jpg
    175.1 KB · Views: 28
  • 0A0A2018.jpg
    0A0A2018.jpg
    251.1 KB · Views: 16
  • 0A0A2019.jpg
    0A0A2019.jpg
    144.7 KB · Views: 15
Why not all Black-thorated Trogon? #3,4,5 looks good for the female and on #1 you can see some yellow coming through from the vent/undercoverts.
 
Thanks to all.
Pic #2 has a pale bill and what looks like an orange orbital ring, that's why I thought it might be an Elegant Trogon male.
 
Agree. Male Gartered has a grey bill.

Ho can you ignore the eye ring?

Male Gartered is the only Trogon in CR with a yellow eye ring?

Here's one showing a yellowy bill

https://download.ams.birds.cornell.edu/api/v1/asset/63845811/640

and another

http://cdn.birdseye.photo/media/resized/large/004337-109-20170129191745.jpg

and another

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-U4BpzvBFe_M/VrTN8nc8cUI/AAAAAAAATkY/ALH_f1RcyQA/s1600/P1050192.jpg

You know what, I seem to remember a chat on here with Patrick O'Donnell about this very thing? Despite what the book says, I think some BT can, show a yellow eye ring, see this link but some are clearly, wrongly ID'd.

https://www.google.com/search?clien...j0i7i30k1.0.3dEQ9WtHoRs#imgrc=swC3qZgXoQk8tM:

I think this is wrong, note that BT should have a greenish rather than bluish sheen to the head?

https://i0.wp.com/www.tikivillas.co...hroated-trogon-visiting-tikivillas.jpg?w=1170

A
 
Last edited:
Ho can you ignore the eye ring?

Male Gartered is the only Trogon in CR with a yellow eye ring?

Not ignoring it. Just that the bill is orange-yellow. The photos you linked show greenish bill (greyish-green), nothing close to the colour the OP bird shows (and the eye ring seems to be thicker as well). Note Birds of Peru (I know, different ssp, sulphureus there while it's tenellus in CR) illustrates Black-throated with an orange-yellow eye-ring. Not sure which species it is but I don't have enough time for the analysis this deserves right now. I thought the remaining tail feather (the innermost?) would offer clues to which species as well.
 
Not ignoring it. Just that the bill is orange-yellow. The photos you linked show greenish bill (greyish-green), nothing close to the colour the OP bird shows (and the eye ring seems to be thicker as well). Note Birds of Peru (I know, different ssp, sulphureus there while it's tenellus in CR) illustrates Black-throated with an orange-yellow eye-ring. Not sure which species it is but I don't have enough time for the analysis this deserves right now. I thought the remaining tail feather (the innermost?) would offer clues to which species as well.

I think that it is BT based on the greenish sheen to the head and I think I can remember PO telling me that a yellow eye ring can occur in BT but the book is confusing on this



A
 
I am also not sure what it is. The variation mentioned in eye-ring color is not included for any of the two species in neither HBW nor Neotropical birds online.

I always have doubts regarding color of bluish vs greenish sheen on photos - sometimes the same bird looks different for this character when it turns differently relative to the light.

The distribution of seeming black around on the eye to bill does seem to fit BtT.

Niels
 
Well, it seems it's simpler than it seemed and we were complicating it. The bird (Trogon sp.) is moulting its tail, with only one tail feather left (the outermost tail feather on the left side). It's a fully dark feather and the only Trogon recorded in Costa Rica (full list below) with fully dark outer tail feathers is really Slaty-tailed Trogon (Trogon massena). Every other species would show black and white barring or broad white tips seen either from above or below. The only thing that confuses me is the apparently yellow plumage showing on the tail sides on the 1st pic (should be red), but that could have been caused by the flash? Possibly an immature? Bill colour doesn't seem to be fully developed either? But I guess the tail pattern is conclusive.

Trogons found in Costa Rica:
Lattice-tailed trogon, Trogon clathratus (E-R)
Slaty-tailed trogon, Trogon massena
Black-headed trogon, Trogon melanocephalus
Baird's trogon, Trogon bairdii (E-R)
Gartered trogon, Trogon caligatus
Black-throated trogon, Trogon rufus
Elegant trogon, Trogon elegans
Collared trogon, Trogon collaris
Orange-bellied trogon, Trogon aurantiiventris (E-R)
Resplendent quetzal, Pharomachrus mocinno
 
Well, it seems it's simpler than it seemed and we were complicating it. The bird (Trogon sp.) is moulting its tail, with only one tail feather left (the outermost tail feather on the left side). It's a fully dark feather and the only Trogon recorded in Costa Rica (full list below) with fully dark outer tail feathers is really Slaty-tailed Trogon (Trogon massena). Every other species would show black and white barring or broad white tips seen either from above or below. The only thing that confuses me is the apparently yellow plumage showing on the tail sides on the 1st pic (should be red), but that could have been caused by the flash? Possibly an immature? Bill colour doesn't seem to be fully developed either? But I guess the tail pattern is conclusive.

o

Why are you sure that it's an outer tail feather?




A
 
Last edited:
Is there any other possible interpretation? If you have one please present it.

I was hoping to learn something from you when you told me how you know it's an outer tail feather?

If it's not an outer, it could still be Gartered though I now don't think it is. We could do with some input from Patrick O'Donnell.

Here's the previous thread I mentioned, the concensus was that the bird I thought was Gartered, was Black-throated, despite the bright yellow eye ring.

https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=343665&highlight=Trogon



A
 
Last edited:
Who am I to teach you anything Andy, you're more experienced with these birds than I am ;). I thought you had a different alternative, I misinterpreted your remark.
The feather is very asymmetrical making it an outer, and it's very short, making it the outermost (in my opinion), after comparing it with many photos of the species (last night). I also checked photos of all other possible Trogon species to make sure the undertail pattern (black and white) of the remaining species would also be visible from above (which it is in every case).
Here's some relevant photos:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/tinyfishy2/38988787190
https://bird-stockphotos.photoshelter.com/image/I0000SpIqHkmYEDk
https://www.hbw.com/ibc/photo/slaty-tailed-trogon-trogon-massena/male-species-0
In any case I don't like absolute certainties when it comes to bird ID, especially with species no one seems to have much experience, and therefore I'm totally open to alternative interpretations.
 
Last edited:
I forgot to add that the 1st photo shows a tenuous marbled pattern on the edge of the outer web of the tail feather (closer to the base), which the HBW photo posted above also shows, which I think is good for this species. As well as the thin vermiculated pattern of the upperwing pale bar, down to the tertials, a pattern also matched by the bird on that pic.
The OP bird seems less robust and less colourful (bare parts) than the photos available in the net, and that's what's still bothering me. But perhaps that could be explained with age?
 
OK, feather details aside, Black-throated is known, to occasionally show a yellow orbital ring and has yellow underparts.

If this were Slaty-tailed, it would have both an abberent eye ring and underpart colouration?

I'm looking at the range map for StT and I'm not sure it would be in range at Albergue Heliconias Lodge?



A
 
Last edited:
OK, feather details aside, Black-throated is known, to occasionally show a yellow orbital ring and has yellow underparts.

If this were Slaty-tailed, it would have both an abberent eye ring and underpart colouration?

I'm looking at the range map for StT and I'm not sure it would be in range at Albergue Heliconias Lodge?

A

I'm not sure it would need to be aberrant, if age related factors could explain it (field guides have no details regarding that...). My point with all the above is that I think tail pattern is a diagnostic criterion in trogons, isn't it?
 
I'm not sure it would need to be aberrant, if age related factors could explain it (field guides have no details regarding that...). My point with all the above is that I think tail pattern is a diagnostic criterion in trogons, isn't it?

The undertail certainly is, I just had another thought, a species that we saw at this site.

Tell me Rafael, do you agree that the tail feather has a green sheen to it?

Should we consider Orange-bellied although the eye ring remains a problem, it would resolve the underpart colour? I know for sure that ObT is at this site because we saw it there, treated as a race of Collared by the IOC.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/...PZnfvq19qxTuuVZOTNrfFtPp6IrkhxiDb0sTloXDCOvfA



A
 
Last edited:
I was hoping to learn something from you when you told me how you know it's an outer tail feather?

If it's not an outer, it could still be Gartered though I now don't think it is. We could do with some input from Patrick O'Donnell.

Here's the previous thread I mentioned, the concensus was that the bird I thought was Gartered, was Black-throated, despite the bright yellow eye ring.

https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=343665&highlight=Trogon

A
I have added a link to that previous thread to the Opus page

Niels
 
Warning! This thread is more than 6 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top