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Canon upgrade; what would you do? (1 Viewer)

bpw

Well-known member
I have used the 10D for 2 years now for bird photography, and want to upgrade. Although I have no major complaints about the 10D, there are 3 weaknesses in my view: frame-rate (3fps), buffer size (9 images), and file size (6.3 million pixels).

Is it possible to address all these issues with any of the Canon range? It seems there is always a compromise between frame rate and file size?

What would you do? If I bought a new camera tomorrow, might Canon introduce a new model next week that addresses all these weaknesses!
 
Have you checked out the new 30D? It should beat the 10D in all the areas you mention (assuming by 'file size' you mean the sensor size - the 20D, 30D and 350D are all 8.2 mp). I cannot see another 1.6 crop sensor DSLR from Canon for a while but in time there will always be something better (and cheaper).
 
As Roy says, the 30D is the obvious option unless you're looking to go full frame - it directly addresses all the weaknesses you mention (5 fps, buffer 30 JPEG/11 RAW frames, 8.2 mps sensor, 8.7mb average RAW file size).

It also has a much bigger LCD than the 10D (2.5 in) and lots of other tweaks over the 20D, including spot metering.

As an aside - great website, Paul - you've got some wonderful pictures out of that old 10D!
 
I'd agree that the 30D could be the camera for you - 8.2mp, 5fps, 30 shot buffer (jpegs) - so it ticks all the boxes. It's currently selling at ~£750 so you get a lot of camera for your money. This is a new model and, like Roy, I doubt there'll be another new one for a while.
 
Thanks guys,

I’ve had a look at the 30D on the Canon website. This would give me another 1.9 MP (I did mean sensor size, I tend to think of its effect on the final image size), an additional 2fps, and another 2 images in a burst. Would I notice a significant difference with my type of photography?

The price is a lot less than I expected, I paid £1,150 for my 10D!

(Thanks for your comments about the website Keith)
 
bpw said:
I have used the 10D for 2 years now for bird photography, and want to upgrade. Although I have no major complaints about the 10D, there are 3 weaknesses in my view: frame-rate (3fps), buffer size (9 images), and file size (6.3 million pixels).

Is it possible to address all these issues with any of the Canon range? It seems there is always a compromise between frame rate and file size?

What would you do? If I bought a new camera tomorrow, might Canon introduce a new model next week that addresses all these weaknesses!

My brother has used the 10D and had the same issues. He recently bought the 30D and is thrilled. Especially with the ample buffer. Good luck.
 
Paul I am in the same boat as you and I cant decide whether to go for the eos1d mark2n or the 30D My problem with 10D apart from buffer is the speed of autofocus.
I like your site I will add it to my bird photographers link site in the next couple of days.

www.peregrinesbirdblog.blogspot.com
 
Thanks Pluvius, appreciate it.

8.5fps, 22-image burst. I think I would notice a difference there! I'd also notice a difference in my bank balance; three times the price of the 30D.

I believe the autofocus on the MK2N is very fast. Would it be much faster then the 30D? Is the autofocus on the 30D similar in performance to the 10D?

I have the BG-ED3 grip with my 10D, but notice the grip for the 30D is the BG-E2 (£149). Does anyone know if my BG-ED3 would fit the 30D?
 
The 20D and 30D both have a benefit over the 10D that hasn't been mentioned - one that I find very important. It is that they are almost instant on from sleep mode. You touch the shutter button and they are ready to take the shot. The delay in the 10D is death for a lot of situations.
 
bpw said:
This would give me another 1.9 MP (I did mean sensor size, I tend to think of its effect on the final image size), an additional 2fps, and another 2 images in a burst. Would I notice a significant difference with my type of photography?

The extra 1.9mp really isn't a big deal, Paul - the link below points to a D70/20D comparision review where the author has addressed the 2mp difference between the two (same difference between the 10D and the 20D/30D).

He has very kindly provided a graphic to indicate precisely what the 2mp sensor size difference really means, and frankly it's pretty trivial - though much depends on whether getting slightly larger images is a key driver for a change of camera.

Of itself though, it's not a great reason to change, all other things being equal.

http://www.completedigitalphotography.com/?p=341#more-341

Jim does make a good point about the "instant on" of the later Canons (my Nikons do this too). I have to say though, that when I'm out the camera is on all the time (you can do that with a D70, and I believe the 20D and 30D also have batteries that last ages between charges), so for me it's not that relevant. It might be for you though, as it for Jim.

Will the 30D make a difference?

I must admit that 5fps can be a boon sometimes and once you've used a camera with a big LCD its hard to go back to a postage-stamp sized LCD: but really only you will be able to say for sure whether an update will be worth it.

Here's an article on upgrading from a 20D to a 30D: not exactly your dilemma, but useful in that it gives you a good idea of what the 30D is about.

http://www.completedigitalphotography.com/?p=420#more-420

Realistically though, your 10D is probably about ready to be pensioned off anyway..!

;)
 
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Thanks for the link to the articles. An interesting point raised, which I had never considered before, is the shutter life cycle (although I can’t agree with his maths?). I notice the 1D MKII N has a predicted life cycle of 200,000 cycles compared with the 30D’s 100,000.

So if the extra 1.9mp isn't a big deal, I would be upgrading for the extra 2fps and the extra 2 images per burst. When taking shots of fast moving birds, I sometimes use the 9 images very quickly and it’s often the case that the bird is in a better position (perhaps closer) when the buffer is full. I’m not sure though that the extra 2 images will make a big difference?

Fps has become an important feature to me, as it may increase the chance of getting an acceptable shot with a fast-moving bird, particularly in flight. But it’s difficult to imagine the difference that the extra 2fps would make. And, of course, the extra two fps would use up the buffer much quicker: 3fps for 9 images = 3 second burst (10D); 5fps for 11 images = 2.2 second burst (30D); 8.5fps for 22 images = 2.6 second burst (ID MKII N)!

The ‘instant on’ feature is worth noting. Although I always try to keep my 10D powered up, I will often forget. I have got into the habit of pushing the shutter release when I see an opportunity and before I raise the camera to my eye or point the camera at the subject, but there is still a delay sometimes. The slow wakeup time on the 10D has caught me out on occasions and having to remember to ‘manage’ it in the field is frustrating.

I agree, my 10D is ready to be pensioned off. I’m glad I started this thread though, because it has raised a number of issues I hadn’t considered.

Paul
 
PAUL just looked at your website and am very impressed you have some excellent images on there.I think the 30D will be a great improvement over your 10D with the greatly improved wake up time.If considering the 1Dmk11 remember that Canon usually up graded there digital SLRs every 18 months if they stick to this then the 1dmk11 is due an upgrade in August this year.So may be worth a wait.
 
Thanks Graham, this is what concerns me a bit. If I spent over £2k tomorrow, would Canon bring out a new model next week with a larger sensor, faster frame rate and larger buffer? But this is the problem with technology, I’m sure we’ve all been caught out in this way at some time.

The 1D Mark II N was introduced in August 2005, however, as an upgrade to the Mark II. Is it likely they will introduce a further upgrade this year?
 
Don`t want to be a killjoy but if, as Ragna says, Canon upgrade their cameras every 18 months you are going to be obsolete/out of date within just over a year whether you choose the 30D or the 1DMkII. As you say the 1DMkIIN was introduced in August 2005 this would not normally be upgraded until Spring 2007, if at all.
I have looked in your gallery and there are some fantastic shots there. It is fairly obvious, to me at least, that whichever camera you choose it will not be detrimental to your photography skills.
 
Assuming that the lens you are using is good enough to outresolve the sensor, the difference between a 8.2MP sensor and a 6.1MP sensor is slightly less than the difference between 600mm reach and 500mm reach. It is a small difference for some people, but for birding it could be important enough.
 
The 20D and 30D have another important advantage over the 10D which is much better servo focus abilities.
The spot meter on the 30D is a nice feature for bird photography as well.
 
bpw said:
I have used the 10D for 2 years now for bird photography, and want to upgrade. Although I have no major complaints about the 10D, there are 3 weaknesses in my view: frame-rate (3fps), buffer size (9 images), and file size (6.3 million pixels).

Is it possible to address all these issues with any of the Canon range? It seems there is always a compromise between frame rate and file size?

What would you do? If I bought a new camera tomorrow, might Canon introduce a new model next week that addresses all these weaknesses!

In support of what everybody else has said about advantages of 30d over 10d :
I have a 20d - not quite up to 30d perfomance - and in practice it is _tons_ faster than a 10d. Nobody has specifically mentioned that Canon made a major improvement in processing speed for this camera. That means that recovery after firing a burst is much faster than a 10d too, so you may be back in action in time to catch those shots you are currently missing.

I had an issue with slow wake up time on my 300d, which is similar to your 10d in that respect. I changed the power off time to maximum (30 minutes) and got a spare battery. Don't need to adjust power off time on the 20d, and the battery lasts much longer. Indeed, I can use a battery the 300d deems flat in my 20d for a while if desperate.

I take it you have weighed the pros and cons of shooting RAW vs. JPEG for moving birds and come down in favour of RAW. You must have plenty of time to spend in front of the computer :) I decided on JPEG to take advantage of the extra capacity !

Mike.
 
Keith Reeder said:
The extra 1.9mp really isn't a big deal, Paul - the link below points to a D70/20D comparision review where the author has addressed the 2mp difference between the two (same difference between the 10D and the 20D/30D).

He has very kindly provided a graphic to indicate precisely what the 2mp sensor size difference really means, and frankly it's pretty trivial - though much depends on whether getting slightly larger images is a key driver for a change of camera.

Of itself though, it's not a great reason to change, all other things being equal.

http://www.completedigitalphotography.com/?p=341#more-341

Jim does make a good point about the "instant on" of the later Canons (my Nikons do this too). I have to say though, that when I'm out the camera is on all the time (you can do that with a D70, and I believe the 20D and 30D also have batteries that last ages between charges), so for me it's not that relevant. It might be for you though, as it for Jim.

Will the 30D make a difference?

I must admit that 5fps can be a boon sometimes and once you've used a camera with a big LCD its hard to go back to a postage-stamp sized LCD: but really only you will be able to say for sure whether an update will be worth it.

Here's an article on upgrading from a 20D to a 30D: not exactly your dilemma, but useful in that it gives you a good idea of what the 30D is about.

http://www.completedigitalphotography.com/?p=420#more-420

Realistically though, your 10D is probably about ready to be pensioned off anyway..!

;)

We have had this argument about the trivial difference between a 6 megapixel and an 8 megapixel before. However, if you read the site mentioned, the author as I read it comes down in favour of the more pixels the better.
 
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