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Questions about my new 8x30 EII (1 Viewer)

ken6217

Active member
I just received these and I had some questions with the instructions.

1. It says to confirm the type of binocular you have in the Product Guide. Is there more than something than meets the eye here (no pun intended). Right below that it says "Eyepiece cup". Then says "Collapsible type". Is there a model that does not have a collapsible eye cup? If not, then I guess you collapse the eye cup for glasses and do not collapse for no eyeglasses.

Then it says to "Turn slide down". What does that mean?

Right now, I am not happy with these. I find it very difficult to get a clear image centered without obstruction. I am also distracted by the eye cup when against my eye.

I appreciate your help.

Thanks,
Ken
 
I just received these and I had some questions with the instructions.

1. It says to confirm the type of binocular you have in the Product Guide. Is there more than something than meets the eye here (no pun intended). Right below that it says "Eyepiece cup". Then says "Collapsible type". Is there a model that does not have a collapsible eye cup? If not, then I guess you collapse the eye cup for glasses and do not collapse for no eyeglasses.

Then it says to "Turn slide down". What does that mean?

Right now, I am not happy with these. I find it very difficult to get a clear image centered without obstruction. I am also distracted by the eye cup when against my eye.

I appreciate your help.

Thanks,
Ken

Ken,

I just checked my EII information packet, which contains three items - warranty, 8x30 EII and 10x35 EII product guide, and a Nikon instruction manual.

The instruction manual is a general guide that covers a number of Nikon bin designs. Under "Operation," the instruction that applies to the EII is the first entry titled "Eyepiece cup 1. Collapsible type."

Number 2 applies to twist up cups on bins such as the HG.

But other topics such as "Adjusting interpupillary distance" and "CF Central focusing binoculars," "How to fasten the neck strap," etc. also apply to the EII.

If you find the EII eyecups uncomfortable, you'd hate the longer SE eyecups. For me, the EII eyecups are comfortable, but I guess if I were used to twist ups, I might feel differently.

What do you mean you find it "very difficult to get a clear image centered without obstruction"???

What kind of obstruction? Do you mean "fuzzy edges"? The EII should have an ample sweet spot in the center with gradual fall off in sharpness at the edges.

Please explain in more detail.

Brock
 
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Hi Brock,
I think it just might be that it is not "clean" all the way at the edges as say compared to my 7x42 Zeiss FL. It's just that it seems that something is getting in the way (not in the center image). It takes some work to move the barrels to get a clear sweet spot. Maybe its my eyes/nose? I thought I had a similar issue when I looked at the 8x32 Zeiss FL.

Thanks,
Ken
 
Hi Brock,
I think it just might be that it is not "clean" all the way at the edges as say compared to my 7x42 Zeiss FL. It's just that it seems that something is getting in the way (not in the center image). It takes some work to move the barrels to get a clear sweet spot. Maybe its my eyes/nose? I thought I had a similar issue when I looked at the 8x32 Zeiss FL.

Thanks,
Ken

Ken,

I had two 8x30 EIIs, my first sample didn't have as good edges as my second. Since the FOV is so wide, the fuzzy edges only bothered me when I was birding close in and had the IPD set closer.

I suspect that there was an alignment issue with that sample. I gave it to someone who wasn't as fussy as I am. :)

My second sample has a wide sweet spot. In star tests, the horizontal edges go out to at least 70%. Holger estimates 70% edge sharpness on his sample too:

http://www.holgermerlitz.de/meopta8x32.html

Seventy percent of an 8.8* FOV yields a 6 degrees sweet spot. Most mid-priced roofs only have 6.3-6.5* total FOV! Even the $1,000 Pentax 8x43 ED only has a 6.3* FOV.

Holger goes on to say that "Zeiss and Leica are not any better here" (i.e., in regard to edge-to-edge sharpness).

However, the fall off at the edges (that is how fast the transition from sharpness to blurriness) with most Nikon Japanese-made optics including the EII is so gradual that your eyes are not usually distracted by a blurry "donut" at the edges.

Here's how Kimmo Absetz describes the EII's edges in his review, which I posted a link to in reply to your Swaro forum post about the 8x32 EL:

"...the E II features an exceptionally wide 8.8° field, which means that its subjective field comes all the way up to 70°. Although image quality at the edge of the field can best be described as acceptable, it is nevertheless much better than in the ultra-wide-angle binoculars of yore, and there are no particularly disturbing carousel effects in the image. The edges of the E II image are softer than in the EL's or the HG, but the sharp area around the middle is pleasantly wide." (italics mine)

I also had two 10x35 EIIs. Except for the one 8x30 sample, all the rest had good edges.

As far as it being your eyes, that's possible, because most of the edge blurriness in the 8x30 EII is field curvature. So if your focus accommodation is poor, you will see more blurriness than others would, however, I don't think that's the case, because my focus accommodation is not good and the sharpness fall off in my EIIs still looks gradual.

So I'm guessing that something is not right with your sample. It should not look like the 8x32 Zeiss FL, with steep fall off at the edges, but rather a more gradual transition from centerfield sharpness to blurriness at the edges, with an ample sweet spot that should not obstruct your view.

If you bought it new, you could contact the store and see if you could exchange it for a better sample. If they don't have any more, you could sent it in to Nikon's New York repair shop under your 25-year warranty. If you bought it used, Nikon's "No Fault Warranty" allows you to send it to its CA repair shop for $20.

By many measures, the EII is one of the best birding bins made, and you would have to pay multiple$ more for a roof that matches it and trade-off the 3-D effect.

I would recommend getting it repaired as long as you can live with the rubber eyecups. Perhaps having to adjust the IPD to get a clear view is what's making the eyecups feel uncomfortable for you.

I have deep set eyes and find most rubber fold down eyecups uncomfortable, particularly on WF bins, but the EIIs fit my eye orbits fine.

Sure, I'd rather they had twist ups with thin beveled edges like the Swaro 8x30 SLC, but as fold downs go, I find these quite tolerable.

However, if you bought these used, and the previous owner folded the eyecups down a lot, the cups can become flared at the edge, making the eyecup wider, which would make them less comfortable. If that's the case, when you send them in for repairs, ask Nikon to give you a new pair of eyecups.

Good Luck!

Brock
 
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Hi Brock,
Honestly it looks like maybe it is the cups against my eyes. It looks like to me that I can almost see the inside part of the eye cup as well and this becomes distracting. I would really have to jam them up against my eyes to prevent this and I'm not sure if that works perfect either. These are new but I had a friend buy them and send them to me in HK.

When I put the 7x42 FL's up to my eyes, it's a pleasure.

Thanks,
Ken
 
I'm having a hard time understanding the trouble from the description. Are you having blackouts (where the field goes black as you're trying to look through them)? I take it you are using them without glasses, is that right? They have a smaller exit pupil than the Zeisses and you may need to take a little more care to get the interpupillary distance right. I used to use mine with the eyecups extended and resting against or just under my eyebrows. They have quite a nice sweet spot and shouldn't be noticeably fuzzier off axis than the Zeisses. Center field resolution should be at least as good.

If you really don't like them, pm me and I'll see what I can do to take them off your hands.
 
I find it hard to explain. There are no black outs. They really seem like a lot of work to get them to fit and get comfortable against my eyes. As a result I don;t seethe nice "round viewing circle as I do with the 7x42 FL's. To be fair, I had a similar issue with the Zeiss 8x32's when I was at the store.

I spoke to the store today where I bought the Zeiss as they are also an eyeglass shop, They said they will look at the Nikons with me even though they only sell Zeiss, Swarvo, and Leica.

I will let you know how it turns out and maybe I will PM you. :)

Thanks,
Ken
 
Hi Brock,
Honestly it looks like maybe it is the cups against my eyes. It looks like to me that I can almost see the inside part of the eye cup as well and this becomes distracting. I would really have to jam them up against my eyes to prevent this and I'm not sure if that works perfect either. These are new but I had a friend buy them and send them to me in HK.

When I put the 7x42 FL's up to my eyes, it's a pleasure.

Thanks,
Ken

You sound like me with the 8x32 SE's eyecups. What I did with them is simply turn the eyecups over and use them upside down. Now I can see almost the entire FOV (with the eyecups right side up, I can only see about 7* - can't see the field stop at the edge).

Try this with the EII. Pop the eyecups off and re-attach them upside down and see if that helps.

I closed the IPD (interpupillary distance) down to its narrowest point (i.e., brought the eyecups closer together by pushing in on the barrels), and I couldn't get the short eyecups to occlude the view even with my high bridged nose pushing on the cups, so I don't think it's the eyecups obstructing your view.

Even if you push the eyecup all the way in toward the EPs with your fingers, the cups barely extend beyond the edge of the lens. Only Jimmy Durante could get the eyecups to move that far with his nose!

Have you owned porro binoculars before?

If not, what you should know is that at closer focus distances, you might see overlapping circles and perhaps a black crescent in the center of the field.

I'm having a hard time duplicating this with the EII because the close focus is so good, but with my SEs I do see this effect.

What you said about having to adjust the IPD to get a clear view made me think that if it's not the fuzzy edges, it could be the overlapping barrels that you are experiencing as the "obstruction".

With a roof bin you don't see this because of the close set barrels. Users with closer set eyes will experience this with porros more than those with wide set eyes.

Try seeing if this problem happens only at close distances. If this is the problem, it should disappear at longer distance.

Someone already mentioned "image blackouts". That's less common with the EII than it is with the SE but it could happen if your IPD setting is very different than what it should be for your eyes.

If you don't know what your IPD is, try to keep the view through the bins as a single circle rather than two overlapping circles (except at close focus where that's not possible).

If none of these things work, my last thought is that the binoculars might be "conditionally aligned" such that the two images merge only at a certain IPD. When you open or close the bins outside of that IPD, the collimation is out, and you will see two separate images instead of one merged image.

This is pretty rare but it could happen if the prisms weren't aligned correctly with the central hinge at the factory.

Brock
 
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You sound like me with the 8x32 SE's eyecups. What I did with them is simply turn the eyecups over and use them upside down. Now I can see almost the entire FOV (with the eyecups right side up, I can only see about 7* - can't see the field stop at the edge).

Try this with the EII. Pop the eyecups off and re-attach them upside down and see if that helps.

I closed the IPD (interpupillary distance) down to its narrowest point (i.e., brought the eyecups closer together by pushing in on the barrels), and I couldn't get the short eyecups to occlude the view even with my high bridged nose pushing on the cups, so I don't think it's the eyecups obstructing your view.

Even if you push the eyecup all the way in toward the EPs with your fingers, the cups barely extend beyond the edge of the lens. Only Jimmy Durante could get the eyecups to move that far with his nose!

Have you owned porro binoculars before?

If not, what you should know is that at closer focus distances, you might see overlapping circles and perhaps a black crescent in the center of the field.

I'm having a hard time duplicating this with the EII because the close focus is so good, but with my SEs I do see this effect.

What you said about having to adjust the IPD to get a clear view made me think that if it's not the fuzzy edges, it could be the overlapping barrels that you are experiencing as the "obstruction".

With a roof bin you don't see this because of the close set barrels. Users with closer set eyes will experience this with porros more than those with wide set eyes.

Try seeing if this problem happens only at close distances. If this is the problem, it should disappear at longer distance.

Someone already mentioned "image blackouts". That's less common with the EII than it is with the SE but it could happen if your IPD setting is very different than what it should be for your eyes.

If you don't know what your IPD is, try to keep the view through the bins as a single circle rather than two overlapping circles (except at close focus where that's not possible).

If none of these things work, my last thought is that the binoculars might be "conditionally aligned" such that the two images merge only at a certain IPD. When you open or close the bins outside of that IPD, the collimation is out, and you will see two separate images instead of one merged image.

This is pretty rare but it could happen if the prisms weren't aligned correctly with the central hinge at the factory.

Brock

I have not had porro's before. I am going to try turning the eye cups over tomorrow. Too dark out now. I think it could be the overlapping circles though. I am bringing these to the store/optometrist tomorrow and maybe he can help.

By the way, the only way I can keep the rubber cups on these binos would be with crazy glue. Crappy QC. The one piece cover isn't worth a sh*t.

Thanks,
Ken
 
Don't bother with the objective covers. They're useless. I found I didn't need them. The objectives are set rather deeply in the barrels and seldom get dirty. If you are talking about the eye cups it is the first time I have heard of them falling off.

Everybody seems to look through a binocular differently. I never jam or place the eye cups over my eyes. I brace the top of the eye cup just under my eye brows on the vestigial brow ridge I inherited from my ancestors in the Neander Valley. This helps steady the binocular and I have no trouble seeing the entire FOV. It works better with hard eye cups but I have had no trouble doing it with the EII or SE either. Why don't you try that method before you give upon them?
Bob
 
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I'm serious! I bought a Leitz 7 x 42 BA at a discount after it was discontinued for the newer Leica 7 x 42 BA. It had rubber eye cups and long eye relief and I suffered "kidney bean" blackouts with it. I fooled around until I discovered the method of holding the binocular that I described above. The blackouts disappeared and I have used that method ever since with all my binoculars. It also works for me on the SE's.
Bob
 
I'm serious! I bought a Leitz 7 x 42 BA at a discount after it was discontinued for the newer Leica 7 x 42 BA. It had rubber eye cups and long eye relief and I suffered "kidney bean" blackouts with it. I fooled around until I discovered the method of holding the binocular that I described above. The blackouts disappeared and I have used that method ever since with all my binoculars. It also works for me on the SE's.
Bob

Steve,

Looks like Bob stole your MOLET ™ (Mooreorless Eyebrow Technique). I think you should call a patent attorney. :)

Indeed, it does work, but you need a Simian brow. It will not work for users with Churchillesque or Hooverian faces since they have no brow to brace the eyecups under.

For example, it doesn't work for my ex-wife:

http://dogs.thefuntimesguide.com/images/blogs/pug-dog-bride.jpg
 
Nikon claims 156 meters (511 feet). The actual is somewhat less, bit still huge. I'm sorry you are having trouble adapting to yours. I got a pair several weeks ago and they are marvelous, if a bit persnickety to get used to. But then again, I could not afford Zeiss!
 
Nikon claims 156 meters (511 feet). The actual is somewhat less, bit still huge. I'm sorry you are having trouble adapting to yours. I got a pair several weeks ago and they are marvelous, if a bit persnickety to get used to. But then again, I could not afford Zeiss!

Thanks. That's what I thought but I thought it was a mistake. That is huge compared to anything else.
Ken
 
Nikon claims 156 meters (511 feet). The actual is somewhat less, bit still huge.

This is a theoretical figure. Where the rubber hits the road, the actual angle of view visible between the field stop, it is slightly less than a Leica 8x32.

The view seems more expansive with the EII, which probably helps the mythology.

To the OP...
I can't really figure out what problem you're having from the descriptions either. I suggest you try a different grip, like this: http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z289/kconville/Nikon/NikonGrip.jpg

This grip will easily allow you to gauge the eye relief using your index fingers. It will also prevent stray light, at the eyepiece, using your thumbs. It may take a little while to get used to it but stick with it a bit, you might find it useful.
 
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I went to the store which happens to me an optometrist that sells bino's as well. They worked with me on this and the bottomline is that these just don't "fit" me. It is better with no eye cups but it doesn't not give me the same huge field I will see effortlessly as i see through the Zeiss and Swarvo.

Anyway, I have a 20 hour used pair of 8x30 EII for sale if anyone is interested.

Thank you for all of the replies.
Ken
 
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