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Newbie questions.....Monarch ATB or X or LX L

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Old Wednesday 2nd March 2011, 19:22   #76
elkcub
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Originally Posted by butlerkid View Post
...

By "losing the image" I mean that everything goes black! Sometimes it's easy to hold the bins lightly against my glasses - other times things go black and then I'm searching to get lined up again. I figured it was just my nose getting in the way!
Karen,

A technique that might help is to fix your eyes on the bird, and then bring the binoculars to your eyes without looking away from it. A little practice should make the aiming process more instinctual. Birds in flight are the same way. Keep following the bird as you bring the binoculars to your eyes and you should be on target. Don't look away.

Ed
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Old Wednesday 2nd March 2011, 19:38   #77
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Karen,

I think you bring up something that is quite important and not talked about a whole lot. That is binocular use technique. You have seemed to grasp at its importance, and from what I have seen over the years you are pretty typical. Loosing what you are looking at when you first try to find it in the binocular, and loosing the image from time to time. That gets better with time, that was the first thing that I had to overcome as well...way back when. Your own 1x optical system is the most useful one you have while birding. Making it function in harmony with the binocular system is paramount to overall satisfaction.

I recommend you practice (practice and practice) around home. You don't need to be birding. Just pick out some object, lock on it with your eyes and bring the binocular up to your face. Keep doing this over and over until you get your own optical system, the binocular optical system, and your physical features...I guess "sighted in" is a term that comes to mind . After some practice you may find you need to look say high to the right of your target to find it in the view. Just a function of the fit between you and your binocular. Use an object that you will instantly be able to recognize because sometimes a little magnification makes what you thought was a "something or another" simply vanish into maybe just the shadow between a couple of bushes or otherwise reveal what you thought you saw was a big nothing. This can be disorienting for awhile. While you are doing this, experiment with some different ways to grasp the binocular. Experiment with ways, as suggested by Bob above to vary the way you need to position the oculars in relationship to your glasses/eyes. I'm not saying you need to go weird and invent some brand new way to hold a binocular. We are all different in physical size, hand size, strength, facial features, eye sight accommodation...and well all sorts of things. Maybe what you find won't seem quite right when you first hit upon the way you need to hold the glass in relationship to your own features, but after awhile it will become more or less second nature.

Also don't be afraid to look at other binoculars too. The ergonomics of some other binocular or another, may in fact make the "just grab it and look...you are naturally lined up" become a subconscious reality for you. If that happens, you either have a superb second pair, or you got a good enough deal that you may well recoup most of your original purchase. What ultimately matters is that your binocular has the right image and feel for you. That does not necessarily mean that since you have a good Nikon that you need to hold brand allegiance if you find another brand you like better, or that you have to "make it work" because it is a good Nikon. You are the one who has to like it, not somebody else. However it seems from your comments so far that you and your Nikon should get along just fine.
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Last edited by Steve C : Wednesday 2nd March 2011 at 19:44.
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Old Thursday 3rd March 2011, 00:21   #78
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Originally Posted by brocknroller View Post
Thanks, I'm glad I make you laugh. Then again, that's not hard to do with someone as naturally jolly as a clown!

The MOLCET (MooreOrLess/Caesar Eyebrow Technique) or it's more common name "eyebrow propping," will not work for eyeglass wearers unless you have granny glasses that sit below your eyebrows. You use your eyebrows as pivot poins to tilt the bins, as Bob mentioned above, until you get the right angle where blackouts don't occur.

Given that image blackout is not as common with the LX's as it is with the SE series (3 out of 4 dentists see it), it could be that you are not setting the IPD properly or that the LXL's don't close narrow enough for your IPD. To get the IPD correct for your eyes, look at the sky and try to form a perfect circle around the edges of the field of view. This should help you avoid blackouts if they are do to alignment issues.

What can throw this off is if your eyes are not equidistant from your nose. Even when I set the IPD to form a perfect circle, I can still get blackouts, though usually only with small exit pupil bins, because my right eye is a few mm farther from the center of my nose than my left eye. So I can't get both eyes to line up with the exact center of the bin's exit pupils.

A Nikon 8x30 EII, with its W-I-D-E 8.8* FOV, would probably solve your problem with aiming. Same with a Zen Ray 7x36 ED2, with its 9* FOV. However, neither have enough ER for most eyeglass wearers.

While the 8x42 LXL's 7* FOV isn't restrictive, it is somewhat less than most premium roofs made today.

I remember having the same problem when I started using my 5* FOV Nikon 12x50 SE for birding. I spotted some Cedar Waxwings in my backyard, and found them easily with my 8x32 SE (7.5* FOV), but when I trained the 12x50s on them, I couldn't find them in the thick bushes. So I kept looking over the bins and then looking through them until I finally found them. Most birds would have been gone by that time, but the Waxwings were resting from their migration south. They stop by each year for a week or two to rest and to feast on my backyard berry bushes.

If you haven't seen Cedar Waxwings, they are very beautiful birds, but also very mysterious with their Zorro masks:

http://www.allaboutbirds.org/guide/C...FQJN4Aodf3MSUQ

To a newbie, 7* probably feels like 5* since you are not used to looking through binoculars.

Perhaps you should start out by looking for larger birds such as the Dryocopus rodanus, a Japanese woodpecker, which is the largest bird in the world:

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__...px-Rodan01.jpg

Brock
Brock,
The technique will work with glasses but they have to be solidly constructed with good frames and have to fit well along the sides of your nose without moving. An aquiline nose helps to hold glasses firmly.
Bob
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Old Thursday 3rd March 2011, 02:06   #79
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Brock,
The technique will work with glasses but they have to be solidly constructed with good frames and have to fit well along the sides of your nose without moving. An aquiline nose helps to hold glasses firmly.
Bob
You don't have to tell me Bob, with my high bridged nose, I have a built-in monopod. But I'm not sure of the psi in the ButlerKid's bubble nose. :-)

Resting the weight of 28-35 oz. bins against my wire rim glasses for extended periods can cause the nose guards to make nose shards. Of course, this will save you money if you were thinking of having rhinoplasty.

A 2010 Johns Hopkins EN&T research paper, which is still out for peer review, suggests that resting the weight of binoculars against one's glasses can cause nasal congestion and even deviated septum in susceptible birders.

However, these medical conditions are 13.4x more prevalent in four-eyed amateur astronomers who handhold bins since they generally use larger aperture, heavier bins, and rest all of the weight against their glasses.

Here's a good example in the photo above the caption "Astronomy (hand-held):

http://www.bigbinoculars.com/

MOLCET + wire rim glasses can also cause a condition known as "rimitis," which is closely related to binoculitis (see last definition on page):

http://www3.merriam-webster.com/open...ter=Bi&last=50

So while MOLCET can work with glasses, I think for purposes of full disclosure, it's important to include WARNINGS about the side effects, like they do in TV commercials for prescription drugs, which in most commercials, take up 90% of the commercial.

"The good news is that you no longer have the heartbreak of Psoriasis, the bad news is that because of the side effects, you now have the liver ache of Cirrhosis."

Brock
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Old Wednesday 1st June 2011, 21:41   #80
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The sun is shining and it's a gorgeous day! I just took the LX L's out for a walk in the woods. Spotted a Yellow Bellied Sap Sucker and "my friend" the Red Headed woodpecker.
So what do I think of the LX L's?
Bright, sharp view. Very, very flat. Sharpness almost to the edges, so it seems to have a large sweet spot.
I didn't notice any rolling ball, however the CA is quite pronounced at times. With proper alignment of my pupils with the bins, I could generally minimize the CA. But a modest amount of CA was generally visible. A small amount doesn't bother me a lot, however, strong CA is very distracting.
All in all, I am very happy with the bins. They are so very sharp and bright. Only occasional strong CA is a disappointment.

I definitely need to practice using the bins. I'd like to get to the point of being able to "lock on" a subject pretty quickly when bringing the bins up to me eyes.

Also, I need to get better at aligning the bins to my eyes. My narrow IPD is challenging. And sometimes I'd just "lose it" - meaning the view through the bins!

Thanks to everyone who has participated in this thread! Your comments have really helped me learn a lot in a short amount of time!
s you have used the Nikon 8x42LXL glasses for some months now, perhaps a more systematic review would help Birdforum readers. Could you set down your perception of the glasses on these counts:
i)Sharpness in the centre of the field and across the field(edge sharpness)
ii) Brightness and contrast: the luminosity of the image and the ability to distinguish between delicate differences in colour or shadow; picking out skulking birds in hedges or rushes at dawn or dusk;
iii) Lack of flare from angled sunlight or reflected sunlight;
iv) Perceived width of the field; ease of view and whether there is a perception of having moved closer to objects viewed without there being any intervening glass;
v) Lateral chromatic aberration and the extent to which it annoys you; does it prevent you from identifying a bird which you would otherwise have identified on colour alone?
vi) Ease of use: does it allow fast dioptre alignment with the moving right eyepiece? can you adjust dioptre, inter-pupillary distance and eye relief (by raisng of lowering the eyepieces)quickly?
vii) Do images, especially of moving birds, snap into focus; does the fast focus lead to focus on points beyond your target; do you have to adjust the focus wheel when shifting between objects which are relatively close to each other or do they remain in focus?
viii) Does rolling ball persist when scanning or does one get used to it over time?
Seems like a tall order but it might worth the time invested in writing the relevant paragraphs.
Best wishes,
Chhayanat
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Old Tuesday 7th June 2011, 05:14   #81
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Originally Posted by Chhayanat View Post
s you have used the Nikon 8x42LXL glasses for some months now, perhaps a more systematic review would help Birdforum readers. Could you set down your perception of the glasses on these counts:
i)Sharpness in the centre of the field and across the field(edge sharpness)
ii) Brightness and contrast: the luminosity of the image and the ability to distinguish between delicate differences in colour or shadow; picking out skulking birds in hedges or rushes at dawn or dusk;
iii) Lack of flare from angled sunlight or reflected sunlight;
iv) Perceived width of the field; ease of view and whether there is a perception of having moved closer to objects viewed without there being any intervening glass;
v) Lateral chromatic aberration and the extent to which it annoys you; does it prevent you from identifying a bird which you would otherwise have identified on colour alone?
vi) Ease of use: does it allow fast dioptre alignment with the moving right eyepiece? can you adjust dioptre, inter-pupillary distance and eye relief (by raisng of lowering the eyepieces)quickly?
vii) Do images, especially of moving birds, snap into focus; does the fast focus lead to focus on points beyond your target; do you have to adjust the focus wheel when shifting between objects which are relatively close to each other or do they remain in focus?
viii) Does rolling ball persist when scanning or does one get used to it over time?
Seems like a tall order but it might worth the time invested in writing the relevant paragraphs.
Best wishes,
Chhayanat
Yes, I too am interested in reading a follow-up from The Butler Kid.

Of course, it is summer, and that's a clown's busiest season, so she is probably busy with pool parties, birthdays, bah/bat mitzvahs, DNA spit parties, carnivals, teaching clown school, clown conventions, and getting in and out of buses.

http://www.mchumor.com/00images/7181_bus_cartoon.gif

Brock
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