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Canon SX60HS in Action

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Old Thursday 8th December 2016, 19:30   #526
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Here is my second and probably last comparison of the day, at least outside shots. Cloudy day and it will be getting dark soon.

In this comparison both cameras were at maximum optical and 2x teleconverter. I cropped the SX50 photo down to roughly the same field of view as the SX60 and then resized both to post.

Still having a hard time keeping the SX60 centered on the target compared with the SX50. I believe that I have both using the same Image Stabilization settings but need to check that.

So I believe that because I cropped and saved the JPG an extra time, theoretically, the SX50 is also disadvantaged in this test.

The SX60 chose a higher ISO (640) than the SX50 did (400) at the same shutter speed of 1/160. So the SX60 photo is brighter.

The SX60 photo appears to have more noise and less detail. But the different ISOs could account for that.

Looking forward to a sunny day tomorrow so that the light issue is less of a factor.
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Old Thursday 8th December 2016, 22:10   #527
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Yeah, with the SX60 it will always choose too high an ISO...used to limit mine to 100 or 200 on a dull day!
Given up now and gone full DSLR
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Old Friday 9th December 2016, 01:45   #528
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The current (Nov 2016) issue of the ABA Birders Guide to Gear has an excellent article by Ted Floyd on the transformation brought about by the SX50 and its peers.
The thrust of the report was that these high performance cameras allow a different form of birding, where the photograph is the aim rather than the sighting itself. Sharing these pictures makes birding much easier to include in the social networks that now abound. He is on to something, imho.
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Old Friday 9th December 2016, 02:21   #529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etudiant View Post
The current (Nov 2016) issue of the ABA Birders Guide to Gear has an excellent article by Ted Floyd on the transformation brought about by the SX50 and its peers.
The thrust of the report was that these high performance cameras allow a different form of birding, where the photograph is the aim rather than the sighting itself. Sharing these pictures makes birding much easier to include in the social networks that now abound. He is on to something, imho.
Googled it. Nice article.
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Old Friday 9th December 2016, 09:42   #530
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Originally Posted by crazyfingers View Post
Here is my second and probably last comparison of the day, at least outside shots. Cloudy day and it will be getting dark soon.

In this comparison both cameras were at maximum optical and 2x teleconverter. I cropped the SX50 photo down to roughly the same field of view as the SX60 and then resized both to post.
Many thanks for your efforts. I am still looking for alternatives to the SX50 and might buy an SX60 or a Nikon P900, if the price is right. In April I bought a Nikon V2 (mainly for birds in flight), but the SX50 is hard to beat for long distances and macro. What I learned from the V2 is that photographing in RAW and using a good editing software can make a huge difference. That's why I'd be very interested to learn more about the SX60's ability to shoot RAW.

Here is a quick test that I was able to do myself. I've visited the dpreview website to get test files in raw format from the two cameras, the SX50 and the SX60.

I downloaded two files, the SX60 shooting a test chart at 247mm and the SX50 at 215mm (= maximum focal length). Then I treated the files with DxO Optics Pro 10 (Prime noise reduction) and standard settings that I prefer. Each file received the same treatment, and was cropped to show the photo. Exported to dng files, opened in Photoshop Elements, used camera raw only to add some clearity (+20). Saved as jpg.

The first photo is the SX50, the second the SX60. The result of the SX50 looks good to me.
The SX50 doesn't allow to use the TC with RAW. Is the SX60 different in this respect?

The raw file of the SX50 has a size of 13 MB, the SX60 is larger: 19 MB. So the SX60 has more pixels on the test chart, as should be expected.
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Old Friday 9th December 2016, 09:46   #531
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The article's at http://bg.aba.org/i/753549-nov-2016/7?

I think his point is not that these cameras can make photography the aim, but that they make bird photography possible without having to carry a big/expensive camera, and that means more photographs are being taken.
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Old Friday 9th December 2016, 13:19   #532
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Originally Posted by HermitIbis View Post
Many thanks for your efforts. I am still looking for alternatives to the SX50 and might buy an SX60 or a Nikon P900, if the price is right. In April I bought a Nikon V2 (mainly for birds in flight), but the SX50 is hard to beat for long distances and macro. What I learned from the V2 is that photographing in RAW and using a good editing software can make a huge difference. That's why I'd be very interested to learn more about the SX60's ability to shoot RAW.

Here is a quick test that I was able to do myself. I've visited the dpreview website to get test files in raw format from the two cameras, the SX50 and the SX60.

I downloaded two files, the SX60 shooting a test chart at 247mm and the SX50 at 215mm (= maximum focal length). Then I treated the files with DxO Optics Pro 10 (Prime noise reduction) and standard settings that I prefer. Each file received the same treatment, and was cropped to show the photo. Exported to dng files, opened in Photoshop Elements, used camera raw only to add some clearity (+20). Saved as jpg.

The first photo is the SX50, the second the SX60. The result of the SX50 looks good to me.
The SX50 doesn't allow to use the TC with RAW. Is the SX60 different in this respect?

The raw file of the SX50 has a size of 13 MB, the SX60 is larger: 19 MB. So the SX60 has more pixels on the test chart, as should be expected.
I sprang for the Nikon P900 a while back. I was very dissatisfied with the image quality when compared next to the SX50. I did a lot of my own comparison testing, some of which I posted in the P900 topic. I sent the first P900 back because I had a hard time believing that it could not even match the quality of the SX50 but the second one performed just as poorly.

Besides that, the P900 was huge in comparison and in addition, I didn't like the usability. For example there is no pause between moving from maximum optical zoom and digital zoom. The only option was to turn digital zoom on or off. Furthermore, P900's version of the Canon "Frame Assist" was terrible. While it snapped back a reasonable amount when only in optical zoom, once in digital zoom, even if only using a tiny bit of digital zoom, it would only snap back to the point of maximum optical zoom. So it was useless in the digital range and with no pause between moving from optical and digital zoom, I found the feature to be next to useless.

The P900 also lacks a Canon type teleconverter that works across the entire zoom range. I've found the teleconverter very handy especially in low light to allow a closer zoom while backing off on optical zoom to allow more light in.

So I canned the P900.

Back when the SX60 came out I read all about it. I recall running into the links that you've provided. At the time I decided to pass.

But now I'm giving it a try. We'll see. Today is sunny.

On your question about TC with Raw on the SX60, I'm sorry but I have no idea. I have never done any RAW and and I don't know what TC stands for. I do very little image editing and what I do is typically limited to contrast and brightness in JPG only.

The two photos that you attached are pretty revealing! It's pretty obvious that the SX50 beat the SX60 on that one.

Anyway, the sun is getting higher. I'll soon be going out to take some more test shots. My only real interest is how they do side by side at maximum. To me at least, any real camera can take a decent enough landscape or family photo.

Last edited by crazyfingers : Friday 9th December 2016 at 13:25.
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Old Friday 9th December 2016, 14:25   #533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyfingers View Post
On your question about TC with Raw on the SX60, I'm sorry but I have no idea. I have never done any RAW and and I don't know what TC stands for. I do very little image editing and what I do is typically limited to contrast and brightness in JPG only.

The two photos that you attached are pretty revealing! It's pretty obvious that the SX50 beat the SX60 on that one.
Good luck with your test shots, I am looking forward to it.
TC = teleconverter. According to the manual:
Quote:
Digital zoom, date stamps, and red-eye reduction are set to [Off] in [RAW] and [JPEG + RAW] modes. Additionally, noise reduction level, i-Contrast and My Colors cannot be configured.
I guess this answers my question, the 1.6 and 2.0 teleconverters are clearly a kind of digital zoom and can't be used if the camera is set to RAW.

The dpreview chart-shot of the SX50 raw isn't bad. At 1200mm perhaps just as good as my Nikon V2 at 810mm focal length, plus cropping.

Thanks to etudiant for hinting at a good article, and to pshute for the link. It is impressive what a superzoom can do. Other cameras have advantages in certain areas, as an universal tool Canon's superzooms remain a joy to use.
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Old Friday 9th December 2016, 15:07   #534
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A couple more comparison shots. Same methodology as the second yesterday.

Both were at their maximum optical + the teleconverter at 2x. I cropped the SX50 photo down to about the same field of view as the SX60 and then resized both to post.

I took the SX50 shots entirely hand-held. For the SX60 I had a very hard time keeping the image steady and ultimately rested my elbow on the hood of the car to take the SX60 shots.

The first two on the left are the SX60. The two on the right are the SX50.

With sunshine I'm seeing less of a difference. The two of the leaves seem nearly identical. The SX60 might have slightly beaten the SX50 but recall I had to rest my arm for the SX60. The SX50 I also had to crop first. Looking really zoomed in there are more artifacts around the edges of the leaves and twigs on the SX60 than the SX50.

The two of the humming bird feeder seem pretty much identical to me except that the SX60 is a bit brighter. The sun was behind a cloud and the brightness may have changed between the two shots.

I'd call this test a tie. But the SX60 files are twice as large as the SX50 files. Would I want to use twice the hard drive space for photos that are pretty much the same?

I have a month to decide whether to keep the SX60 or return to Amazon. I will do some more testing but my tentative conclusion is that the SX60 is not actually superior to the SX50 in terms of image quality. It can match the quality in good light but may not in bad light.

But the fact that I can't keep the SX60 steady hand held while I can easily do that with the SX50 is a big issue. I don't think that the small difference in physical size is the cause. I think that the IS on the SX60 is just not as good.

Is the SX60 worth spending over $500? So far it's not looking good.
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Old Friday 9th December 2016, 15:37   #535
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Is the SX60 worth spending over $500? So far it's not looking good.
That was also my reluctant conclusion a while back. Consequently am in limbo, hoping that the rumored SX 70 will soon appear and set a new standard.
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Old Friday 9th December 2016, 15:59   #536
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That was also my reluctant conclusion a while back. Consequently am in limbo, hoping that the rumored SX 70 will soon appear and set a new standard.
Did you ever buy an SX60 or did you do what I did back then and just decide to sit it out?
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Old Friday 9th December 2016, 16:47   #537
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Here is a different comparison. In the winter when I fill the bird feeder I frequently stand in the driveway and take pictures at the birds at the feeder. (I have not filled the feeder yet)

Here are five attempts to take a picture of the feeder handheld with the SX60.

And honestly I tried my very best. It was a struggle just to get these in the frame...
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Old Friday 9th December 2016, 16:49   #538
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Here are the 4 photos I took with the SX50 handheld. I just shot them off effortlessly.

No picking and choosing. I took 5 photos with the SX60 and 4 photos with the SX50.
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Old Friday 9th December 2016, 16:55   #539
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What settings have you got for the 60? Can't understand why you're having such problems??
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Old Friday 9th December 2016, 17:07   #540
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What settings have you got for the 60? Can't understand why you're having such problems??
Same settings as the SX50 as the main options are pretty much identical.

If you mean IS, under "IS Settings" both cameras are Mode = Continuous and Dynamic are set at 1. But I think dynamic is for movie only.

I'm using C2 which was set starting in P, as was the SX50. All the key things like Flexizone, AF point, metering are the same for both cameras.
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Old Friday 9th December 2016, 17:45   #541
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Did you ever buy an SX60 or did you do what I did back then and just decide to sit it out?
Did what you did, sat it out.
Did my best with pocket zooms instead, but have not found them that good.
So am waiting impatiently for the SX 70. It's been a long wait...
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Old Friday 9th December 2016, 17:59   #542
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Did what you did, sat it out.
Did my best with pocket zooms instead, but have not found them that good.
So am waiting impatiently for the SX 70. It's been a long wait...
I have the feeling that I'll be sitting it out along there with you again.

Unless I learn that I'm doing something drastically wrong with the SX60, which I strongly doubt given that the settings appear to be identical to the SX50 in every way that matters, I can't see keeping it.

I do love my SX50's (I have three) When the P900 didn't work out and I decided to pass on the SX60 I got myself some spare SX50's just in case my original died on me.

But I've had my first SX50 since Dec. 2012 and I've been hoping for something worth upgrading to.

I suppose the waiting is likely to continue...
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Old Friday 9th December 2016, 19:12   #543
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I have the feeling that I'll be sitting it out along there with you again...
Could this video of a 150x zoom Canon SX70 HS be authentic? Or is it a fake?
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Old Friday 9th December 2016, 19:35   #544
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Could this video of a 150x zoom Canon SX70 HS be authentic? Or is it a fake?
Interesting. It would be nice if there was a way to grab the data file to see the make and model. I don't see a way.
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Old Friday 9th December 2016, 20:40   #545
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Could this video of a 150x zoom Canon SX70 HS be authentic? Or is it a fake?
Looks promising. Thank you very much for this link.

Note that the headline says 150x, the actual description says 100x, think a fake product video would be more careful.
Canon did patent a 100x lens about 3 years back, iirc a bit wider than the P900 but not quite as long. Think the devil will be in the details of the execution, but with the CES imminent, we won't have long to wait to find out if it is real.
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Old Friday 9th December 2016, 22:22   #546
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Looks promising. Thank you very much for this link.

Note that the headline says 150x, the actual description says 100x, think a fake product video would be more careful.
Canon did patent a 100x lens about 3 years back, iirc a bit wider than the P900 but not quite as long. Think the devil will be in the details of the execution, but with the CES imminent, we won't have long to wait to find out if it is real.
I didn't notice the 100x / 150x inconsistency. You might be right.
The video itself looks professional - zooming on a raptor, not on a sparrow. And the whole scenario: dry climate, to reduce atmospheric issues.

Apparently Canon has patented a new Powershot 3.8-380mm f/2.3-7 zoom lens.

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Old Saturday 10th December 2016, 00:00   #547
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I didn't notice the 100x / 150x inconsistency. You might be right.
The video itself looks professional - zooming on a raptor, not on a sparrow. And the whole scenario: dry climate, to reduce atmospheric issues.

Apparently Canon has patented a new Powershot 3.8-380mm f/2.3-7 zoom lens.
There are several 100x lens patents from Canon on file, all for a Powershot style sensor:

http://thenewcamera.com/canon-patent...-optical-zoom/

http://thenewcamera.com/one-more-can...m-lens-patent/

http://thenewcamera.com/another-100x...nt-from-canon/

Canon clearly has the chops to produce the product.
However, because sales and profits are off sharply, they are being forced to retrench. The firm will only launch the SX 70 if decent profits are probable and if marketing is comfortable that the camera will not cannibalize sales of more lucrative models.
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Old Saturday 10th December 2016, 00:32   #548
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Funny thing about patents is that they aren't just used to make your own stuff. They are also used to stop others from making stuff or to trade for rights to patents that others own.

Not that I think that Canon doesn't intend to use them but there is no rush if it doesn't make sense to use them right away.

But I'm still hopeful to hear something from CES.
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Old Saturday 10th December 2016, 10:51   #549
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Funny thing about patents is that they aren't just used to make your own stuff. They are also used to stop others from making stuff or to trade for rights to patents that others own.

Not that I think that Canon doesn't intend to use them but there is no rush if it doesn't make sense to use them right away.

But I'm still hopeful to hear something from CES.
Sure, it's a long process from a patent to a new camera. Still, a mere chance for a 380mm lens planted on a sensor with a 5.62 crop factor is ... nice. An equivalent focal length of 2135mm at f/7? The internal teleconverter would become almost irrelevant, I might prefer to shoot in RAW. - I only have to convince the family to order our Xmas gifts from the Easter bunny.

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Old Saturday 10th December 2016, 18:47   #550
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And honestly I tried my very best. It was a struggle just to get these in the frame...
Did you have the same focal length set for the SX60 shots as for the SX50 shots?
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