Canon 5D Replacement For 20D Or Is It? (1 Viewer)

John151

John

• Aug 23, 2005

• #1

Reportedly, the Canon EOS 5D is a full frame 35.8 x 23.9 mm having 12.8 Mpx.
which gives a pixel density of 14960 pixels per square millimetre.Whereas, the 20D has a frame size 22.5 x 15 mm and 8 Mpx, which gives a pixel density of 23700 pixels per square millimetre.

If the subject fills the full frame eg landscapes it is the total number of pixels that matters. However, if a small portion of the frame is being enlarged eg small birds at about 6 m with a 400 mm lens, then the pixel density becomes more important making the 20D better by around 50%.

I am no expert and I submit this post to solicit comments from the experts.

 

Last edited: Aug 23, 2005

postcardcv

Super Moderator

Staff member

Supporter

• Aug 23, 2005

• #2

From the spec of the 5D seems to be closer to the 1Ds than the 20D, being full frame and with a (relatively) slow fps rate it is not ideal for bird photography. I think this is Canon's first attempt to make an affordable full frame dslr, no doubt these will come down in price over the next few years.
Personally I think that when Canon replace the 20D it will be with either a ~8mp camera with faster fps shooting (like the 1D), or a higher res camera (~11mp) with the same (5) fps shooting - I doubt the replacement model will be a full frame camera.

 

Adey Baker

Member

• Aug 23, 2005

• #3

I also think this is the first 'affordable'(!) full-frame DSLR and not a direct replacement for anything.

There's been a demand for something like this from current owners of wide-angle lenses for some time, now

 

John151

John

• Aug 23, 2005

• #4

Thank you Postcardcv and Adey.

Best wishes,
John.

 

R

Robert_Scanlon

Well-known member

• Aug 23, 2005

• #5

I agree that this isn't a replacement for the 20D. It probably marks the end of the 1.3 crop factor cameras, the 1D and the 1D Mk11, but the 1.6 line will surely continue, and the EF-S lens lineup will expand.

The 5D is not going to be an ideal birding camera for most people, but it will be popular for wedding / portrait photogs and the like who can't justify £5k on a 1Ds. It will possibly be the one that will make a lot of film photogs switch, now that they can change the body without having to buy new lenses to go with it. The Canon-using birders will have to keep dreaming of a weather sealed 1.6 body with a good AF system, but I can't see that happening anytime soon.

 

Last edited: Aug 23, 2005

John151

John

• Aug 23, 2005

• #6

Thank you Robert, I think I will wait a while and watch developments.

Kind regards,
John

 

R

Robert_Scanlon

Well-known member

• Aug 23, 2005

• #7

John , you are right that the 20d's pixels will be more densely packed together, but there are other factors as well. Some people say that the 1DII gives easily as good detail as the 20D, despite its larger pixels. Also, large pixels can help dynamic range somewhat. I think I read somewhere that the pixel density of the 5D is similar to the 1DII, so provided it hasn't got a stronger AA filter, it should still produce shots equal to the 1DII / 20D, albeit with some spare space around the main subject. Given that the price for the 5D will probably be in the same ballpark as the 1DII, that would still be my recommended camera of the two, given its more robust build and weather sealing and decent AF etc. [/ramble]

 

John151

John

• Aug 23, 2005

• #8

Robert_Scanlon said:

John , you are right that the 20d's pixels will be more densely packed together, but there are other factors as well. Some people say that the 1DII gives easily as good detail as the 20D, despite its larger pixels. Also, large pixels can help dynamic range somewhat. I think I read somewhere that the pixel density of the 5D is similar to the 1DII, so provided it hasn't got a stronger AA filter, it should still produce shots equal to the 1DII / 20D, albeit with some spare space around the main subject. Given that the price for the 5D will probably be in the same ballpark as the 1DII, that would still be my recommended camera of the two, given its more robust build and weather sealing and decent AF etc. [/ramble]

Click to expand...

Thanks again Robert.

Best wishes,
John.

 

yossi

Well-known member

• Aug 23, 2005

• #9

Canon announced a new 1DMKII"N", with the same 1.3 crop factor.
I do not understand to whom canon is aiming the 5D. For sports and news it's too slow, for studio work it lacks a lot of features, for amateurs - too expensive, so who's the target? It looks like canon is showing everyone their capability, drawing a lot of attention, no more.

 

John151

John

• Aug 23, 2005

• #10

yossi said:

Canon announced a new 1DMKII"N", with the same 1.3 crop factor.
I do not understand to whom canon is aiming the 5D. For sports and news it's too slow, for studio work it lacks a lot of features, for amateurs - too expensive, so who's the target? It looks like canon is showing everyone their capability, drawing a lot of attention, no more.

Click to expand...

Hello Yossi, and thank you for your reply. When you say it's too slow for sports, do you mean the time lag between pressing the shutter release and the shutter firing, or the number of frames per second or what?

Best wishes,
John.

 

L

Leif

Well-known member

• Aug 23, 2005

• #11

I think the 5D will appeal to anyone who wants high resolution for A3 enlargements - for example landscape, nature photography, rock music photography, and weddings - though it's less suitable for fast moving birds, motor racing, sports etc. The larger sensor sites will presumably have lower noise and possibly better dynamic range than a 12MP C-APS sensor.

I wouldn't be surprised if Canon updated the 20D sometime in the next year so so to 10 or 12 MP. The smaller sensor will lead to a significantly cheaper camera. It looks like they will maintain two parallel classes of camera, namely full frame 35mm and the smaller C-APS frame, with the smaller frame for enthusiasts and some pros. Who knows if the C-APS frame will last more than 10 years though. What's the point unless the lenses and cameras are significantly more compact, once the price of full frame 35mm sensors is no longer an issue?

Leif

 

John151

John

• Aug 23, 2005

• #12

Thank you Keif.
Best wishes,
John.

 

Corax67

Well-known member

• Aug 24, 2005

• #13

I had initially felt deflated when I saw the 5D announcement (I have a pair of 20D's) but having seen the specs I feel compelled to agree with Rob

The 5D is not going to be an ideal birding camera for most people, but it will be popular for wedding / portrait photogs and the like who can't justify £5k on a 1Ds. It will possibly be the one that will make a lot of film photogs switch, now that they can change the body without having to buy new lenses to go with it. The Canon-using birders will have to keep dreaming of a weather sealed 1.6 body with a good AF system, but I can't see that happening anytime soon.

Click to expand...

I can produce 20" x 16" prints from my 20D now so it would really take something spectacular for me to upgrade for a long, long time.

 

John151

John

• Aug 24, 2005

• #14

Thank you Corvus.

Best wishes
John

 

Tyler Vargo

Well-known member

• Aug 27, 2005

• #15

yossi said:

I do not understand to whom canon is aiming the 5D. For sports and news it's too slow, for studio work it lacks a lot of features, for amateurs - too expensive, so who's the target? It looks like canon is showing everyone their capability, drawing a lot of attention, no more.

Click to expand...

I'm with you there yossi... 3fps is too slow for sports, it doesn't have the feature set I'd want in a studio camera and it is likely too expensive for most amateurs (especially me). They should have made it 8mp so amateurs could afford it...

 

GavinM

Improving user

• Sep 12, 2005

• #16

yossi - also agree with you. I suspect they felt they had to get a full frame machine out to compete with the forthcoming D200 (likely DX). So they're going for advanced amateurs and pros on a budget. Unless there's something great about the handling of the camera I think they might have made, if not an error, a muddying of the waters. Sure to be a great camera, but hard to see where it fits.

 

John151

John

• Sep 12, 2005

• #17

Thank you Gavin.

Best wishes
John

 

G

ghocking

Member

• Sep 24, 2005

• #18

From reading peoples comments on the web I think the 5D will sell like hot cakes. What will happen to the 20D nobody knows, my view is maybe a 20DN with picture style and maybe low ISO and extra (invisible) AF points as per the 5D, but adding to much could lose sales of the 5D. For 1.6 crop I see Canon moving forward only on the 300/350D line, with the 20D disappering, and 20D users upgrading to 5D as the price drops for FF over the next few years.
I have pre-ordered a 5D but will keep 20D for tele shots, zoos, birds etc and let the 350D go.

 

compa

Well-known member

• Sep 25, 2005

• #19

This silly thread is still alive!!!!

The 20D and the 5D are two very different cameras that simply do not compete with each other. Canon will not eliminate the 1.6 crop sensor size - they created a whole new line of lenses to fit it!

The price difference between the 20D and the 5D is large - they are not in the same class.

The 5D is the cheap path to full frame for those who need wide angle.

The 20D is top of the line for the reduced sensor size digitals.

The title of this thread is like asking if a new model of truck is the replacement for a 2 door sedan.

 

RAH

Well-known member

• Sep 25, 2005

• #20

Jim,
Very well stated! Sometimes I get the feeling that money is not an issue with a lot of the folks on this forum, so they really do see no difference (other than technical) between a $1500 and a $3500 camera. Nice position to be in!