• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

gulls (3 Viewers)

Hi all,

Whilst scanning through the gulls roosting in a flooded field this morning, they suddenly flew up in a panicked state. I then noticed a crow flying through the gulls and joining a 2nd crow that was stood on top of a floored Black-headed Gull and was furiously pecking at its head. The 1st bird landed next to the gull and grabbed its right wing and pinned it down as the other crow continued to attack the gull. Several times the gull stood up and ran a few feet before the crows floored it again. The gull had lost one eye at least and blood was streaming down its cheek. Eventually the gull stopped struggling and the crows started to pluck and eat their kill. However, the gull did raise its head several times so was clearly not dead whilst it was being eaten. The gull was a 1st winter.

I have noticed dead Black-heads in this field before so perhaps this is now regular!

Cheers,

Andy.
 
Odd dark 2nd winter European Herring Gull or 3rd winter Smithsonianus?

This Gull attracted my attention on the Camel Estuary, Cornwall a couple of days ago, appearing very different from the local 2nd winter Herring Gulls; obvious differences included, size, larger more like GBBG, a good 3rd winter green-tinged bill, dark tertial centre streaks, dark blotches rather than spots to under-parts, light axillaries, very dark under-wing coverts especially carpal joint, all leading me to believe that this is a good candidate for 3rd winter Smithsonianus? rather than 2nd winter argenteus.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_6547.JPG
    IMG_6547.JPG
    131.5 KB · Views: 215
  • IMG_6546.JPG
    IMG_6546.JPG
    134.8 KB · Views: 196
  • IMG_6545.JPG
    IMG_6545.JPG
    158.2 KB · Views: 224
Qingcol said:
This Gull attracted my attention on the Camel Estuary, Cornwall a couple of days ago, appearing very different from the local 2nd winter Herring Gulls; obvious differences included, size, larger more like GBBG, a good 3rd winter green-tinged bill, dark tertial centre streaks, dark blotches rather than spots to under-parts, light axillaries, very dark under-wing coverts especially carpal joint, all leading me to believe that this is a good candidate for 3rd winter Smithsonianus? rather than 2nd winter argenteus.
Click to expand...

Wow. That is a very striking bird indeed.

Can you find US photos via google that match this bird?

Cheers, Andy.
 
tittletattler said:
It's a Herring mate. Very worn bird though with much of the pale edges to the tertials abraded. When was the pic taken?

Note the worm like white vermiculations running through the wing coverts (and compare to Pete's Caspian and my Yellow Leg above).

Cheers, Andy.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that - only taken last week, so the abrasion is late autumn etc. Thought it was HG but facially it was a bit lightweight (perhaps a female?) but we all know how these things are - anyway, 'worm like vermiculations' are new to me and goes straight in the terminology bank.

Slowly building up some gull photos here...
 
Archie Opteryx said:
Thanks for that - only taken last week, so the abrasion is late autumn etc. Thought it was HG but facially it was a bit lightweight (perhaps a female?) but we all know how these things are - anyway, 'worm like vermiculations' are new to me and goes straight in the terminology bank.

Slowly building up some gull photos here...
Click to expand...

Last week? Oh. It looks very worn (tertials) and it appears to be missing median coverts. Head looks a bit skanky so perhaps it's ill?

Lou - what do you think?

Cheers, Andy.
 
Qingcol said:
This Gull attracted my attention on the Camel Estuary, Cornwall a couple of days ago, appearing very different from the local 2nd winter Herring Gulls; obvious differences included, size, larger more like GBBG, a good 3rd winter green-tinged bill, dark tertial centre streaks, dark blotches rather than spots to under-parts, light axillaries, very dark under-wing coverts especially carpal joint, all leading me to believe that this is a good candidate for 3rd winter Smithsonianus? rather than 2nd winter argenteus.
Click to expand...

From what I can see initially, the rump/uppertail coverts on your bird should be densely spotted rather than white.

http://gull-research.org/smithsonianus/smith2cy/2cydec003.html

But I wouldn't put money on that being a hard and fast rule.

Worth looking through this article too:

http://gull-research.org/papers/IdentificationOfAmericanHerring(Mullarney&Lonergan).pdf

Page 17 says this: "If it often seems as if no two first-winter smithsonianus
are quite alike, second-winter birds are
even more variable"

I'll do some more digging....

Cheers, Andy.

Edit: have a look at the presumed 2nd winter/cycle here:

http://peteralfrey.blogspot.co.uk/2010/02/bird-forum-gull-photos.html
 
Last edited:
it is a retarded 3rd cycle (-winter), whatever it is. peter should have a look at this. i can't remember having seen pics of such brown 3cy argenteus.
 
tittletattler said:
From what I can see initially, the rump/uppertail coverts on your bird should be densely spotted rather than white.

http://gull-research.org/smithsonianus/smith2cy/2cydec003.html

But I wouldn't put money on that being a hard and fast rule.

Worth looking through this article too:

http://gull-research.org/papers/IdentificationOfAmericanHerring(Mullarney&Lonergan).pdf

Page 17 says this: "If it often seems as if no two first-winter smithsonianus
are quite alike, second-winter birds are
even more variable"

I'll do some more digging....

Cheers, Andy.

Edit: have a look at the presumed 2nd winter/cycle here:

http://peteralfrey.blogspot.co.uk/2010/02/bird-forum-gull-photos.html
Click to expand...

Many Thanks! for the great links. To be fair the Camel bird does show the remnants of dark barring (not spotting) to sides of rump/upper-tail.
Colin
 
do you have more pics with this bird, tsingy? maybe with an open wing? (wishfull thinking...)
it is most probably an adult michahellis but who knows...
 
I know very diffucult to identifation , but no more pics. I saw very large mirror on p10 , reddish gonys weak and restricted , gony angle very slight , the upperparts slate-grey is light so i think it can be cachinnans . However , the head and eye shape is giving idea for mic. I was thought it can be a cachinnans but hard to say it , maybe a hybird ( mic & cach). So I want to ask your opinions . Thanks a lot.
 
i wouldn't rule out cachinnans but there exist many michahellis with large all white p10 tips. head shape is not easy to judge in this view, that's why i asked for more pics...
on this view i think it is a YLG.
 
Qingcol said:
Many Thanks! for the great links. To be fair the Camel bird does show the remnants of dark barring (not spotting) to sides of rump/upper-tail.
Colin
Click to expand...

Hiya,

This bird was still present yesterday although 'distant'.

I think you need to forward it to the experts. Note that authors of the article above. Worth googling them to find email addresses. They would probably appreciate seeing photos of this bird!

Cheers, Andy.
 
tittletattler said:
Hiya,

This bird was still present yesterday although 'distant'.

I think you need to forward it to the experts. Note that authors of the article above. Worth googling them to find email addresses. They would probably appreciate seeing photos of this bird!

Cheers, Andy.
Click to expand...

Watching this bird even at a distance yesterday it was very easy to pick out, surely given its large size and darker plumage (larger & darker than any other 3rd winter Herring Gull) it will be less defensible to take the easy option of kicking it into the long grass as a argentatus/argenteus intergrade or a hybrid! But don’t hold your breath. Thanks again Colin
 
Last edited:
Warning! This thread is more than 4 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Similar threads

B
Merlin Age/Sex
Replies
7
Views
810
BarJarv
B
K
Gull on the banks of the Dodder river in Ireland
Replies
3
Views
569
01101001
01101001
01101001
Sexing (adult male) Common Kestrels by head colour
Replies
1
Views
228
tconzemi
tconzemi
O
Gull, Atnarko River, Tweedsmuir National Park, BC, Canada
Replies
3
Views
480
Bewick
Bewick
E
Herring Gull or Caspian Gull 29-02024 NW England
Replies
6
Views
660
Joern Lehmhus
Joern Lehmhus

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 4 (members: 0, guests: 4)
Back
Top