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First Look at the New 8.5x42 EL (1 Viewer)

henry link

Well-known member
Yesterday I was able to spend about an hour with the new Swarovski 8.5x42 EL and at least briefly compare it to a Zeiss 8x42 FL, Nikon 8x42 EDG and Leica 8x42 Ultravid (non-HD).

It doesn't take an hour to discover that the optical performance of the new EL is excellent in every category, especially the area of off-axis sharpness where it sets a new standard for binoculars in my experience. The edge of the field really is just about as sharp as the center, something I have only seen once before, in the Nikon 7x50 Prostar, but that binocular has a much narrower apparent field than the EL.

However, when an object is placed at the edge of the field in the new EL it does not look precisely like it does at the center for two reasons. One is lateral chromatic aberration, which is quite obvious toward the field edge, just as it is in other binoculars. In fact, it may actually look more striking in the EL because of the startling edge sharpness. In other binoculars the fringe of out of focus color tends to mingle with the general fuzziness at the edge, but in the EL it stands out in obvious contrast to the sharp edges of objects. Secondly, the shape of objects toward the edge is distorted. Ironically that's because of the lack of pincushion distortion that allows lines to remain almost perfectly straight across the entire field. When it comes to distortion you simply have to choose your poison. Applying pincushion distortion will largely maintain the shape of non-linear objects near the edge, but at the same time cause lines to bend. Zero pincushion distortion keeps the lines straight but unavoidably introduces angular magnification distortion which foreshortens the shape of objects toward the edge and leads to the "rolling globe" effect when panning as objects appear to be moving around the edge of a sphere as they approach the edge of the field. Zeiss and Leica use enough pincushion to maintain relatively undistorted shapes toward the edge, but lines are obviously curved. The new EL has virtually no pincushion and the Nikon EDG splits the difference with a small amount of pincushion, not enough to completely avoid angular magnification distortion but arguably enough to avoid a strong "rolling globe" for most people.

I tried an experiment in the store to see if I could photograph these distortion characteristics. I used a circular suction cup on the store window to show the distortion of a shape at the edge of the field and the straight lines of the window frame to show pincushion distortion. I just held the camera at an angle to the binocular eyepieces and photographed the field edges. The photos below show the field edge at 3 o'clock of the new EL on the left and a Leica 8x42 Ultravid on the right. I think it's clear that the EL squashes the shape of the circle but maintains nearly straight lines while the Leica maintains the shape of the circle (actually slightly overcompensates) but curves the lines of the window frame. The difference in sharpness in the photos actually looks similar to what the eye sees, but I would not depend on this method to always give an accurate impression of the sharpness the eye would experience at the edge.
 

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Henry,
Not being in the market, I see this mainly as a the best-yet optics lesson in pincushion vs rolling ball. Your presence of mind, ability with camera, and lucid explanation, are only what we have come to expect. Nice going.

But, ARE YOU GOING TO BUY IT OR NOT???
Ron
 
henry link,
thanks for such detailed review.. I am enjoying the new EL 8,5x42 (you did't mean the new Swarovision, did you?) a month and a half ago and I must say that I can feel that almost all the FOV is pretty clear and sharp!.. of course, at the very edge things get blurry and kind of difficult to see, so, just move your hands a bit and then you are in the center of the FOV. Having 7,4 degrees FOV + the Swarovski sensation you are INTO the image you see, I am afraid is more than enough to obey that bit of lateral chromatic aberration...
love my new Swaros!!.. Diego.
 
Hi Henry, Thanks for posting this. I would be afraid to look through these after seeing your suction cup picture. I think I would want to buy this binocular.:t:
Regards,Steve
 
Steve, I am sure the Swarovski trust-fund kids are having their Ibiza New Year Party bags packed in anticipation of the cash injection!8-P

merry christmas,
Rick
 
Hmmm Henry, looks like I might have to have one of those. Is the size comparable to the current EL’s? How does size compare to Ultravids? Any noticeable difference in on axis resolution between the EL and Ultravid?

Thanks
Ron
 
Henry, thanks for the concise but excellent review. I'm with Steve. I'm not in the market, but your photos make me afraid to look through this binocular.
 
Hi Henry, Thanks for posting this. I would be afraid to look through these after seeing your suction cup picture. I think I would want to buy this binocular.:t:
Regards,Steve

Steve, Christmas isn't even here yet and already you are thinking about trading in your soon-to-be-delivered-by-Santa Neu Swaro 8x30 SLC, your 8x32 LX, 12x50 SE, and your 2,000 lb. John Deere tractor for a Neu Neu EL?

"Geez, some guys are never satisfied." Mmm...I wonder where I got that quote from? :)
 
Henry,

Thanks for that review of the new SV EL and the explanation of why the EDG, despite having field flatteners, doesn't have the "rolling ball effect" like the SV EL or Nikon LX series.

I think what Nikon did with the EDG is the ideal design. You get sharp edges (though not sharp to the very edge) and a more natural view while panning and without the fussy eye placement to avoid blackouts like the SE.

I also found the EDG's ergonomics to be ideal for me too, though I have to give the nod to Swaro for coming up with the original open bridge design.

As the abundance of open bridge roofs on the market now attests, it was a grand idea.
 
Henry,

Thanks for the impressions and photos. Looks like in the edge sharpness category my 10x42 IS L Canon will finally meet some stiff competition.

Surely you had you Zeiss tripler or some other booster along? Can you share what you saw with it compared to your Zeiss?

Kimmo
 
Many thanks for that, Henry. As one of the guinea-pigs who has the "neu" EL on order, I´m relieved that you haven´t dismissed it.....especially as I sold my 10-month old EL´s to part-fund the order. As you saw these in a store, does it mean they´ve already been released in the U.S.? (Not that I´m impatient, quite the contrary since I rekindled my love-affair with my EII´s....;))
 
Thanks everyone. i'll try to answer some questions in no particular order.

The binocular I saw was provided to the store in advance of the official release date in January. They can't actually sell it to anyone until then, but can allow people to droll over it in the meantime.

I wasn't able to set up a proper resolution test with boosted magnification, but I did a casual star test at 68x. The star test looked excellent with minimal spherical and chromatic aberrations by binocular standards, no assembly defects and the 68x image had a relatively clean look I've seen in only a few low aberration binoculars. I was also able to compare it to an "old" EL made in 2009. The coatings looked identical, but the new binocular appeared to me to be slightly brighter and higher contrast, a view shared by other people in the store who compared them. Brightness in the new binocular was very close to the Zeiss 8x42 FL. Sometimes I felt the Zeiss was slightly brighter, but the two were so close that I would need more time to be sure of that. Color accuracy appeared to me to be be dead on like the EDG, making the Zeiss look slightly green and the Leica slightly yellow to my eyes. Contrast was outstanding, as good or better than the others.

Focus speed is about the same as the old EL. The extra focus travel is all used to achieve the closer focus. The new binocular seemed to feel a little smaller and lighter than the old EL, but if there is any real difference it's slight.

As for "rolling globe", it's there as it has to be in any optic with no pincushion distortion and an apparent field over about 45 degrees. I guess we'll find out just how people react to that in January.

Henry
 
Nice job Henry with the pics. Sure does show off the new Swaro. The problem is that
it sure makes the Leica look less.

It would seem you deserve a complimentary or demo pair for your work.

As the industry watches the new products come out, you can bet all the engineers are
busy working on their next advancement.

You know, competition does make things better !
 
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I went to my local store that has been pre-selling Swarovision. The store manager had a chance to see the new EL. He told me the panning feels "funny" (I guess he does not know the term "rolling ball" effect). Does anyone know if Swarovski will address this issue with follow-up Swarovision Neu?
 
I went to my local store that has been pre-selling Swarovision. The store manager had a chance to see the new EL. He told me the panning feels "funny" (I guess he does not know the term "rolling ball" effect). Does anyone know if Swarovski will address this issue with follow-up Swarovision Neu?

I might be wrong but I think it is hard to make great edges WO rolling ball effect.
 
I might be wrong but I think it is hard to make great edges WO rolling ball effect.

It probably is hard; otherwise, I'm sure we'd see a lot more bins with great edges that don't have narrow fields of view.

However, it can be done! No rolling ball on the SEs, but great edges and a moderately wide FOV. Minimal rolling ball on the EDG, but great edges and a wider FOV.

But you raise a good point. The bins w/rolling ball that people have mentioned all have field flatteners - Fuji FMTs, Kowa Genesis, Nikon LX/LX L, and now the SV EL - so perhaps its difficult to add pincushion w/out having other undesired effects in bins with field flatteners, but the exceptions show that it can be done, particularly the EDG, which for sure, does have field flatteners.

In the case of the SE, the blackouts might be a "side effect" of the stretched edges, as someone suggested. There have been various theories proposed about that, but regardless, the EDG shows that it can be done, and if Swaro or another brand of birding bins with field flatteners wants my business, they will have to add some pincushion too.

However, my guess is that those of us who are bothered by rolling ball comprise a small club vs. those who don't see it or like you, see it and quickly adapt, are in the majority. So manufacturers are not worried about losing our business.

I remember when the Nikon LX first came out, not even one reviewer mentioned the "rolling ball effect".

Same thing when the LX L was introduced. In fact, Wayne Mones from BVD in his review of the 8x42 LX L said:

Using a binocular should be second nature. You should be barely aware that you are using them because they work so effortlessly. This criteria certainly fits the LX L...

I couldn't disagree more about his impression of the 8x42 LX L. The "rolling" images are very unnatural and are a constant reminder that I am looking through optics.

That review was in 2005. Perhaps the "rolling ball seers" club has grown, because now I read more reports of "rolling ball" than ever before.

That might have something to do with Holger's technical report on the "globe effect," which has been widely circulated on the Internet.

It might be like UFOs. Until the first person reported one, and someone gave it a name "flying saucer," nobody paid much attention, but after Roswell, UFOS began being reported worldwide in great numbers.

So if there is a "rolling ball" backlash, the next model EL could have some pincushion, just as the the EDG has some following the LX/LX L. (or we just might see more reports of UFOs :)

I'd like to think that all my complaints on bin forums about the LX/LX L's "rolling ball" (the full sized models only) and calls and emails to Nikon customers reps about this had something to do with the pincushion in the EDG, but I know that's reaching, because they totally ignored my other request to make their next gen premium roofs for under $1,000. :)
 
Yesterday I was able to spend about an hour with the new Swarovski 8.5x42 EL and at least briefly compare it to a Zeiss 8x42 FL, Nikon 8x42 EDG and Leica 8x42 Ultravid (non-HD).

It doesn't take an hour to discover that the optical performance of the new EL is excellent in every category, especially the area of off-axis sharpness where it sets a new standard for binoculars in my experience. The edge of the field really is just about as sharp as the center, something I have only seen once before, in the Nikon 7x50 Prostar, but that binocular has a much narrower apparent field than the EL.

However, when an object is placed at the edge of the field in the new EL it does not look precisely like it does at the center for two reasons. One is lateral chromatic aberration, which is quite obvious toward the field edge, just as it is in other binoculars. In fact, it may actually look more striking in the EL because of the startling edge sharpness. In other binoculars the fringe of out of focus color tends to mingle with the general fuzziness at the edge, but in the EL it stands out in obvious contrast to the sharp edges of objects. Secondly, the shape of objects toward the edge is distorted. Ironically that's because of the lack of pincushion distortion that allows lines to remain almost perfectly straight across the entire field. When it comes to distortion you simply have to choose your poison. Applying pincushion distortion will largely maintain the shape of non-linear objects near the edge, but at the same time cause lines to bend. Zero pincushion distortion keeps the lines straight but unavoidably introduces angular magnification distortion which foreshortens the shape of objects toward the edge and leads to the "rolling globe" effect when panning as objects appear to be moving around the edge of a sphere as they approach the edge of the field. Zeiss and Leica use enough pincushion to maintain relatively undistorted shapes toward the edge, but lines are obviously curved. The new EL has virtually no pincushion and the Nikon EDG splits the difference with a small amount of pincushion, not enough to completely avoid angular magnification distortion but arguably enough to avoid a strong "rolling globe" for most people.

I tried an experiment in the store to see if I could photograph these distortion characteristics. I used a circular suction cup on the store window to show the distortion of a shape at the edge of the field and the straight lines of the window frame to show pincushion distortion. I just held the camera at an angle to the binocular eyepieces and photographed the field edges. The photos below show the field edge at 3 o'clock of the new EL on the left and a Leica 8x42 Ultravid on the right. I think it's clear that the EL squashes the shape of the circle but maintains nearly straight lines while the Leica maintains the shape of the circle (actually slightly overcompensates) but curves the lines of the window frame. The difference in sharpness in the photos actually looks similar to what the eye sees, but I would not depend on this method to always give an accurate impression of the sharpness the eye would experience at the edge.

Narrower FOV but the Nikon 10x25 LXL's are as sharp at the edge as the center and the second best at edge sharpness I have seen are the Canon IS's and I am sure both use field flatteners. I would definitely rather have rolling globe and totally sharp edges than introduce pincushion. With a totally sharp field right to the edge it is extremely pleasing to my eyes. I am sure I would really like the new Swarovision for that reason. Henry, nice optics explanation but did you like the view through the Swarovisions better than the Zeiss FL's. Do you feel they are the best optics available at present and should we go drop $2300.00 big ones on them. That's what I would really like to know. Thanks!
 
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Just a couple of quick comments about recent posts to this thread.

I don't think there is any direct correlation between distortion and edge sharpness. Some eyepiece designs have excellent edge sharpness combined with huge pincushion distortion, like the Televue Panoptics which have similar apparent fields to the new Swarovski ELs. Presumably, the Swarovski designers simply considered zero pincushion to be the correct design choice for distortion. It wasn't forced on them in order to achieve the edge sharpness. Maybe Kimmo could tell us about the distortion in the Canon 10x42L IS, which I haven't seen, but from his description must have similar edge sharpness to the Swarovski.

I can't answer Dennis' questions. Most of the short time I had was concentrated narrowly on evaluating the edge of field corrections and distortion since those are what really set the new ELs apart from other binoculars. I'm sure there will be many strong opinions to choose from once they're available.
 
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