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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

In praise of the 32mm FL binoculars (1 Viewer)

I feel the same way. When there was first talk of the SF32, i was quite excited by the idea. However, if it goes for AK prisms rather than SP, it might defeat the object of opting for a 32 in the first place. I would guess it would also be just shy of the price of the SF42s. The FL (for those who haven't bought and then sold it for some ergonomic reason) is so good - how many FL owners will jump for it?
A bit of a dilemma for Zeiss, i would expect. Like Arthur, i'd certainly like to see one, but the podgy little FL will do for me, i reckon.

As i might have mentioned earlier, i also really like the EII 8x30, particularly for relaxed days. The FL is the workhorse though.
 
paddy7 said:
I,,,

As i might have mentioned earlier, i also really like the EII 8x30, particularly for relaxed days. The FL is the workhorse though.
Click to expand...

Hello Paddy,

My major problem with the 8x30EII was that it did not seem very robust and I have become a somewhat clumsy OAP. For a while, I used the Leica 8x32BN but I think that Zeiss FL is a true step upward: FL glass, very good eye releif and dielectric mirrors improved the optics, while reducing the weight with modern materials.

I will note that the 32mm FL binoculars were not just slimmed down versions of the 42mm FL binoculars. Instead of AK prisms, Zeiss chose S-P prisms, probably to reduce size. I suspect that the SF line is similarly ill suited for 32mm binoculars.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :hi:
 
Troubador said:
Ine UK dealer reports that his sales of EL 32 easily exceed that of the 42 so I bet Swaro are glad they do a 32 at least for the UK market, and with western populations getting older due to longer survival rates one might expect lighter binos to get more popular over time. Opticron sell more 32s than 42s for example.

Lee
Click to expand...

Lee,

I have no doubt that some retailers sell more 32s than 42s of the same brand. The point I was trying to make was that the market for a 32 that's as big as many 42s might be limited (of course assuming that Zeiss will not find a way to make the SF 32 unexpectedly small....).

Peter
 
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Pinewood said:
Hello PeterPS,

Yes, neither the 10x40 Dialyt nor the 10x50 Leica worked for me as well as the 10x32 FL.

As Troubador wrote the 8x32mm binocular market is strong. The 10x32 market seems to be a lot smaller. I would guess that the 8x32 market is even stronger in the USA, where twilight is rather shorter than in the UK.
Should Zeiss produce an 8x32 SF, I would certainly like to examine one but it would take a great improvement for me to purchase one.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :hi:
Click to expand...

Hello Arthur,

I am a bit different: I like the FL 10x32 more than any other 10x32, but when a larger EP is needed and the extra weight associated with it is not a problem, then I prefer my FL 10x42, FL 10x56, SV 10x50, or even my SE 10x42.

All the best,
Peter
 
PeterPS said:
Lee,

I have no doubt that some retailers sell more 32s than 42s of the same brand. The point I was trying to make was that the market for a 32 that's as big as many 42s might be limited (of course assuming that Zeiss will not find a way to make the SF 32 unexpectedly small....).

Peter
Click to expand...

OK, I missed that point and agree that it would be difficult to translate the SF42 concept down to a really compact package. On the other hand perhaps a radical re-think of what is really required of a 32 might mean SF32 is as different from SF 42 as the 42 is from other 42s.

Lee
 
Patudo said:
I spent about 11 hours with mine over the weekend, including about five hours observing over long distances, and found myself fiddling with the focus more than would have been ideal in order to achieve that happy state where you have the most relaxed view, eyes open naturally, without the slightest squint. I think its exceptional sharpness almost works against it in that once you've seen it, you know when you're not seeing it, and feel compelled to try to achieve it. The Plastic Alpha is more sensitive in this respect (to my eyes anyway) than most of my other binoculars but this niggle is more than outweighed by its good qualities.
Click to expand...

Unfortunally i had the same issue with the 8x32fl. I really liked the ergonimics, the size etc. But while using it in the field i was constantly turning on the focus wheel. It image was sharp, thats sure. But i never felt that i hit the right spot. In comparison to my other binoculars i never had the impression that i could enjoy the view. Scanning through the field was ok but observing a bird did not work well. There was always the urge to turn the focus a little left or right. I sended it to zeiss and the fixed something in the dioptre adjustment. But it did not get better. I sold it then, the new user seem to be happy with it. And i constantly think about buying another pair but i am afraid it will end up same.
 
Hello,

Last week, I met someone interested in bird watching who wanted to buy a binocular. She was engaged with a very experienced male bird watcher about a future purpose. He was extolling 8x42 glasses. I let her look through my and she was "blown away" by the view, praising its clarity and sharpness. I suggested that there might be deep discounts on the FL as the SF was imminent. I also suggested that she go to vendor with a large selection to truly compare.
The SF will surely have some advantages over the FL, primarily field of view but I am curbing my enthusiasm about buying a new binocular. I await thorough reviews and I may want to get a full two decades from my FL,

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :hi:
 
Many of my birding colleagues here on the Norfolk/Suffolk coast are owners of what are now fairly old binoculars, albeit 'alpha' makes. Speaking to one who had tried a much newer Swarovski (his is a very old and battered EL) he just said 'i couldn't get on with it...'
Now, if that's all he had for the next month, he would get on with it fine i think, but i was reminded of Flann O'Brien's 'Third Policeman' ; the old men of the village who had ridden the same black bicycles for so long, their atoms had trans-migrated and one had become part of the other. Old chaps could be found leaning motionless against walls outside pubs...
I suspect a similar thing can happen with binoculars - you just get used to their funny ways, and without them, you are temporarily lost.

I want to see/test the SF32, and fully expect it to be extremely good indeed in terms of weight distribution, field of view, focus accuracy etc.
Then i suspect me and the ol' FL will go birding.....
 
[QUOTE=paddy7;396809rd

I suspect a similar thing can happen with binoculars - you just get used to their funny ways, and without them, you are temporarily lost.

I want to see/test the SF32, and fully expect it to be extremely good indeed in terms of weight distribution, field of view, focus accuracy etc.
Then i suspect me and the ol' FL will go birding.....[/QUOTE0

Very well put! I certainly see the same with the veteran birders I’ve met. Sort of like Willie Nelson and his guitar.

-Bill
 

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Hi Lee,

... and when you're going to be medalled / medaled you can say to your friends that you have podiumed... (People do actually say that.)

To be fair though there are a lot of well accepted examples of verbs from nouns already in existence: nobody would raise their eyebrows at 'beached whale' or 'laddered stocking'. And we 'pigeonhole' people. All good fun but I'm digressing from the good old 32 FL. Yours (the one I now have since last summer) is very nice. I may have told you I had it tuned up by Zeiss at no charge; possibly I knocked it somehow - Gary sent it to Germany and it came back promptly and in perfect order. It's very comfortable when out for the day; I just don't notice its presence round my neck or over my shoulder and across the chest. The only little niggle for me with this and all x32s is I find the hair trigger focus adjustment leads me to overshoot and then work to and fro when compared to a x42. But that's something that is within my control and just needs a bit of practice.

All the best,

Tom
 
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SeldomPerched said:
Hi Lee,

... and when you're going to be medalled / medaled you can say to your friends that you have podiumed... (People do actually say that.)

To be fair though there are a lot of well accepted examples of verbs from nouns already in existence: nobody would raise their eyebrows at 'beached whale' or 'laddered stocking'. And we 'pigeonhole' people. All good fun but I'm digressing from the good old 32 FL. Yours (the one I now have since last summer) is very nice. I may have told you I had it tuned up by Zeiss at no charge; possibly I knocked it somehow - Gary sent it to Germany and it came back promptly and in perfect order. It's very comfortable when out for the day; I just don't notice its presence round my neck or over my shoulder and across the chest. The only little niggle for me with this and all x32s is I find the hair trigger focus adjustment leads me to overshoot and then work to and fro when compared to a x42. But that's something that is within my control and just needs a bit of practice.

All the best,

Tom
Click to expand...

Hi Tom
Yes your FL32 is 'saddled' with a quite fast focus though not quite as fast as Conquest HD 32. Way back when Dialyts were all the rage, the advise from Zeiss was to always overshoot a little when focusing then bring the focus back slowly to the point of sharpness. Not all 32s are this fast but if you venture to a site with lots of nearby action (eg warblers or butterflies or dragonflies) as well as distant stuff like herons, harriers or waders, then you will thank your lucky stars that you have a focus as fast as the FL's so you can go to and fro and back again and not miss anything.

Lee
 
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Troubador said:
Hi Tom
Yes your FL32 is 'saddled' with a quite fast focus though not quite as fast as Conquest HD 32. Way back when Dialyts were all the rage, the advise from Zeiss was to always overshoot a little when focusing then bring the focus back slowly to the point of sharpness. Not all 32s are this fast but if you venture to a site with lots of nearby action (eg warblers or butterflies or dragonflies) as well as distant stuff like herons, harriers or waders, then you will thank your lucky stars that you have a focus as fast as the FL's so you can go to and fro and back again and not miss anything.

Lee
Click to expand...
Thank you, Lee. I like that focusing advice. I used to do that with cameras but lost the habit after using AF for several years. (I'm back to MF more now!)

The FL is good close up; perhaps the 32 Trinovids are closer still? I remember using yours at Castor Hanglands very close up.

Tom
 
PeterPS said:
I own both the FL 8x32 and the SE 8x32 and like them quite a bit (btw, no blackout issues with the SE). I also own the FL 10x32---the only 10x32 alpha binos that have worked for me, really excellent. Given the excellence of the FL 32 mm models will we ever see an SF 32mm line? Many people say that we will, and I know that the SF 32mm's have been in the works at Zeiss for already quite some time, but I am wondering if the market is sufficiently large for 32mm binos that will likely be as big as many 42mm's.
Click to expand...
Hello PeterPS, just seen this from over two years ago: quite prophetic about the size of a new SF 32 being similar to that of a 42 binocular!

Tom
 
Troubador said:
Hi Tom
Yes your FL32 is 'saddled' with a quite fast focus though not quite as fast as Conquest HD 32. Way back when Dialyts were all the rage, the advise from Zeiss was to always overshoot a little when focusing then bring the focus back slowly to the point of sharpness. Not all 32s are this fast but if you venture to a site with lots of nearby action (eg warblers or butterflies or dragonflies) as well as distant stuff like herons, harriers or waders, then you will thank your lucky stars that you have a focus as fast as the FL's so you can go to and fro and back again and not miss anything.

Lee
Click to expand...
Hi Lee,

Having been out and about and using the FL 32 in earnest in the last couple of days I appreciate what you say, even if the action wasn't that fast and furious. Digressing slightly I have been looking this evening at some old comments and found one by you, I think, suggesting that the 10x32 (which I have never seen much less used) is exceptionally good and that it even has a flat field, unusually for the series. Have I got that right and I wonder if any are still available; not needed as I use 10 very little but the format appeals to try out for interest and compare for shakiness with my lightweight 10x42 SLC, as I wouldn't be looking for great twilight performance. Does the 10x32 share the external dimensions and approx. weight of the 8x32? Of course I can look this last bit up so not to worry if you are busy.

All the best,

Tom
 
Hello Tom,

Last week, I put the wrong x32Fl in my bag, that is the 10x32, as they are that similar. I realized something was amiss: the narrow FOV, a less than stable view and the lack of depth of field. I accommodated myself to it rather quickly and kept it steady, most of the time. Yes, the larger size of the 8x32 SF is off-putting but the extra FOV may be worth the bulk.

Stay safe,
Arthur
 
SeldomPerched said:
Hi Lee,

Having been out and about and using the FL 32 in earnest in the last couple of days I appreciate what you say, even if the action wasn't that fast and furious. Digressing slightly I have been looking this evening at some old comments and found one by you, I think, suggesting that the 10x32 (which I have never seen much less used) is exceptionally good and that it even has a flat field, unusually for the series. Have I got that right and I wonder if any are still available; not needed as I use 10 very little but the format appeals to try out for interest and compare for shakiness with my lightweight 10x42 SLC, as I wouldn't be looking for great twilight performance. Does the 10x32 share the external dimensions and approx. weight of the 8x32? Of course I can look this last bit up so not to worry if you are busy.

All the best,

Tom
Click to expand...
Hi Tom, the answer to your post is in two parts. Firstly, I heard some years ago from someone who should know that FL10x32 has a field flattener. This was a misleading way to describe the component the FL has (and I fell for this) because although it has a Barlow it wasn't used to flatten the field but to boost the magnification from 8x to 10x when used in conjunction with the same eyepiece as the 8x. It seems Zeiss was into maximising the use of eyepieces within the FL range because if I remember correctly Henry pointed out the FL7x42 uses the same eyepiece as the 8x42 but has different objectives. Indeed you can identify FL7x42 from a distance by the much shorter objective tubes. FL10x32 is the same size as the 8x but weighs 10g more at 560g.
Secondly, I find 10x32 far more usable than I expected based on comments such as 'finicky eye position'. I wear specs as you know so don't have eye sockets available to help position bino eyecups but I simply don't have a problem with the 10x32s I have used (Meopta MeoStar, Opticron Traveller and Zeiss SF). As a result, my recent conversion to using 32s almost exclusively includes taking a 10x32 on all future expeditions as well as 8x32 because it is good to have the choice in a number of habitats.

All the best
Lee
 
To expand on Lee's comments about the 10x32 FL's optical construction, see the comments along with the attachments to post #191 at:
www.birdforum.net

New Horizons II

I have a Zeiss 5x10 monocular, which I think has relay lenses. It has ridiculously long eye relief. I don't have experience of rifle scopes. Not sure if I have had one or not. I have several Broadhurst Clarkson drawtube scopes that use relay lenses. Eye relief is not long. Also perhaps a good...
www.birdforum.net www.birdforum.net


John
 
Troubador said:
Hi Tom, the answer to your post is in two parts. Firstly, I heard some years ago from someone who should know that FL10x32 has a field flattener. This was a misleading way to describe the component the FL has (and I fell for this) because although it has a Barlow it wasn't used to flatten the field but to boost the magnification from 8x to 10x when used in conjunction with the same eyepiece as the 8x. It seems Zeiss was into maximising the use of eyepieces within the FL range because if I remember correctly Henry pointed out the FL7x42 uses the same eyepiece as the 8x42 but has different objectives. Indeed you can identify FL7x42 from a distance by the much shorter objective tubes. FL10x32 is the same size as the 8x but weighs 10g more at 560g.
Secondly, I find 10x32 far more usable than I expected based on comments such as 'finicky eye position'. I wear specs as you know so don't have eye sockets available to help position bino eyecups but I simply don't have a problem with the 10x32s I have used (Meopta MeoStar, Opticron Traveller and Zeiss SF). As a result, my recent conversion to using 32s almost exclusively includes taking a 10x32 on all future expeditions as well as 8x32 because it is good to have the choice in a number of habitats.

All the best
Lee
Click to expand...
Hi Lee,

That's interesting information on all counts. I probably read that same post you mention from Henry about shared eyepieces round about the time Tobias sent me his 7x42 FL from Germany. I had no idea till then that lenses were shared between formats in this way. At the same time my reading on Birdforum put me off 10x32 which had struck me at first sight as a good format for less shake in higher magnification viewing. Talk on here of low sales and insufficient light gathering with the 3.2mm exit pupil chimed with my experience of years of using just an 8x20 Trinovid (1990s olive green metal striped bridge BCA) on dark days. However, for more relaxed daylight birding, a category I confess to being in over half the time, I can't see a problem and it sounds from your experience that the 10x32 format is under-appreciated.

I know you have been an advocate for the 42 SFs and so it would be interesting to hear if the advent of the 32 SFs has drawn you away from the original SFs when you say 'my recent conversion to using 32s almost exclusively'. When I tried a 8x42 SF on Zeiss's 14 day loan scheme in 2018 before buying your HT I actually liked the balance and wide view very much and, rightly or wrongly, allowed the sheer size of the binoculars to put me off. I have not yet come across any of the new 32 SFs. Your old (it doesn't seem old) HT incidentally has impressive balance despite its more rearward weighting and has a lightweight (positive, literal sense) feel with the focuser falling nicely to hand. With more viewing hours under my belt now I'd say the field of view is a bit limiting, which is why 8x32 and 7x42 are what gets taken out 80% of the time.

Tom
 
Pinewood said:
Hello Tom,

Last week, I put the wrong x32Fl in my bag, that is the 10x32, as they are that similar. I realized something was amiss: the narrow FOV, a less than stable view and the lack of depth of field. I accommodated myself to it rather quickly and kept it steady, most of the time. Yes, the larger size of the 8x32 SF is off-putting but the extra FOV may be worth the bulk.

Stay safe,
Arthur
Click to expand...
Hello Arthur,

Thank you for this — your summary gives me good points to think about. I have an SLC 10x42 which is very compact for the format and surprisingly shakefree in my hands; it's really all the 10 I need but the smaller format is sometimes tempting. Regarding extra FOV in 8x32 I'm happy to forgo that and take along 7x42 for a good FOV; the old Dialyt ClassiC is a steady well balanced bin for many hours. I think you have one yourself?

Best wishes,
Tom
 
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