Be gentle with me. (1 Viewer)

phil baber · Jul 14, 2011

Phil,
A warm welcome to here!
I'm hungry to see more of these! Delightful entomological studies capturing the macro beauty of these wonders. Your work shows a great love for your subject and for colour and detail. Superb!
More please! And school? So what? Do you have to have qualifications to produce fine works such as these? I think not! Keep posting! :cat:

PS Len. Fantastic! Look forward to seeing the LL thread any time soon!

Phil Carter · Jul 14, 2011

Well, I've had another go, this time with a bit of background. The idea was to make the background as unobtrusive as possible so that the bird would stand out. Don't think I've suceeded though as I seem to have lost the "edge" of the bird in places, notably the breast and legs. Any suggestions on how to get a good outline without an "outline", if you see what I mean.

Phil

Drellas · Jul 14, 2011

Hi Phil,

it's great to have you here. Go on and give the birds strong colours O

Ulrike O

ARTHUR BISHOP · Jul 14, 2011

nice to see you here and I dont think we need to be gentle with you , your work stands on its own

Phil Carter · Jul 14, 2011

Drellas said:
Hi Phil,

it's great to have you here. Go on and give the birds strong colours O

Ulrike O

Thanks Ulrike, it was actually your unbelievable painting of a fly that led me into this part of the forum and inspired me to have a go at drawing insects.

Phil

phil baber · Jul 15, 2011

Phil Carter said:
Well, I've had another go, this time with a bit of background. The idea was to make the background as unobtrusive as possible so that the bird would stand out. Don't think I've suceeded though as I seem to have lost the "edge" of the bird in places, notably the breast and legs. Any suggestions on how to get a good outline without an "outline", if you see what I mean.

Phil

Contrast the background with the edge of the subject. It may be darker, lighter, or a contrasty colour. And you may have to do different things for different parts behind the outline. Practise on different subjects in rough. Also get down to the "macro level" and see how subtle stuff can really work well when you "pan out." In the end, I find, it is all about deception. But Nature deceives us...there is no outline!:eek!:

In short, learn from the Mastriss of Deception itself...Nature. And good luck!

ps I just posted 2 Turtle Doves in my thread. Was a nightmare trying to bring them forward of the background. I didn't get it right. But I learnt a lot...:cat:

Nice Night Heron BTW!

timwootton · Jul 15, 2011

Excellent work Phil - you're some-way up the rungs already!

Woody · Jul 15, 2011

timwootton said:
Excellent work Phil - you're some-way up the rungs already!

Here! Here!

Remember that lost edges are not always a bad thing, the viewer's brain will fill in the gaps like a dot to dot.

Mike

username · Jul 15, 2011

Phil has made some good comments about the lost edges and colour depth...and perhaps you could even consider a stronger directional source of light, perhaps from behind.?...to highlight the edges of the undersides of bird in particular..[if you get my drift]...

looking good...:t:

phil baber · Jul 16, 2011

username said:
Phil has made some good comments about the lost edges and colour depth...and perhaps you could even consider a stronger directional source of light, perhaps from behind.?...to highlight the edges of the undersides of bird in particular..[if you get my drift]...

looking good...:t:

Ah yes! Good one!:t:

RussB · Jul 16, 2011

Hi Phil (and Len!),
These couloured pencil works are superb! Before my BF days when I'd more money than sense I admit to having had grand ideas about coloured pencils and bought a nice tin of lovely Derwent Drawing Pencils which cost me about thirty quid. Needless to say they're still lovingly sitting together, unused in their lovely tin. These efforts might just inspire me, but having absolutely no idea how to use them.....

Russ

Phil Carter · Jul 16, 2011

RussB said:
Hi Phil (and Len!),
These couloured pencil works are superb! Before my BF days when I'd more money than sense I admit to having had grand ideas about coloured pencils and bought a nice tin of lovely Derwent Drawing Pencils which cost me about thirty quid. Needless to say they're still lovingly sitting together, unused in their lovely tin. These efforts might just inspire me, but having absolutely no idea how to use them.....

Russ

This whole section of BF inspires me. As for not knowing how to use coloured pencils, I can certainly empathise with that. I have found though, that with the watercolour pencils, if a bit goes slightly pear-shaped, I can slop a bit of water on and make it seem somewhat intentional. So come on, get those pencils out!

Phil

Phil Carter · Jul 16, 2011

With this one, I was quite happy with the head, then got less and less happy toward the tail. Trouble is, I got to a point where I thought, "that'll do for now" but, try as I might, I just couldn't leave it alone. I'd dab a bit here, not like it, so dab a bit there, not like that either so slop a bit of water on to try and blend it out, wash it out to much so add a bit more colour, then.....and so on and so forth, I think you catch my drift. Does anyone else have that problem, surely it's not just me?

Phil

nickderry · Jul 16, 2011

Phil Carter said:
With this one, I was quite happy with the head, then got less and less happy toward the tail. Trouble is, I got to a point where I thought, "that'll do for now" but, try as I might, I just couldn't leave it alone. I'd dab a bit here, not like it, so dab a bit there, not like that either so slop a bit of water on to try and blend it out, wash it out to much so add a bit more colour, then.....and so on and so forth, I think you catch my drift. Does anyone else have that problem, surely it's not just me?

Phil

yes, that's the problem we ALL have here - the first mark is perfect - it's the ten thousand that come after that spoil it - but a gorgeous swallow all the same. The trick is not to try and achieve what we want with our art, but to accept what we do. A sheet of unintentional but pure marks is better than a sheet of mud.

phil baber · Jul 17, 2011

Phil,

Echoing what Nick has expertly said? It's called "overworking."
Best done when drunk. I try to do all my stuff sober these days. But there is a balance. And control over the "first lines" and "how not to overwork them" is an art in itself...

Phil Carter · Jul 17, 2011

phil baber said:
Phil,

I try to do all my stuff sober these days. [/QUOTE

It's a novel idea but can't see it ever catching on.B

Phil

Phil Carter · Jul 17, 2011

nickderry said:
The trick is not to try and achieve what we want with our art, but to accept what we do.

A good point but easier said than done. A quick question. Should I be aiming to "finish" the whole picture to see the overall effect before going back to add detail rather than trying to finish one section at a time?

Phil

Phil Carter · Jul 17, 2011

Just putting on a work in progress, if only to give myself a kick up the 'arris to finish it. Backgrounds are definitely not my favourite bit!

Phil

timwootton · Jul 17, 2011

Nice orchid Phil - the swallow works well and there's a sage or two already made reference to this. Keep on up, mate.

Drellas · Jul 17, 2011

Phil Carter said:
I just couldn't leave it alone. I'd dab a bit here, not like it, so dab a bit there, not like that either so slop a bit of water on to try and blend it out, wash it out to much so add a bit more colour, then.....and so on and so forth, I think you catch my drift. Does anyone else have that problem, surely it's not just me?

As said, we all have the problem. However, I think this bird is not overworked, yet. I think your wish to work on it tells you something... even you do something and get it off again. (I always say: You're painting and you are not painting at the same time.) I guess, it's a matter of tone here. The light comes from the left. So, the right part could be slightly darker...

Ulrike O

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C'est pas ma faute, je suis anglais.

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