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Plain-capped Starthroat (1 Viewer)

mb1848

Well-known member
Since the L'echo du monde has been put on Biodiversity Heritage Library recently I looked for the OD for Heliomaster constantii. Here:
http://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/180983#page/361/mode/1up .
Sherri Williamson and Mr. Jobling mention a Charles Constant and he might be what the bird is named after but it is not apparent from the OD. DeLattre mentions Henry a lot in the OD I believe this is Ornismya henrica named after his brother.
http://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/19515#page/25/mode/1up . Is henrica properly formed? What Frenchman uses Henry over Henri?
 
To add one thing here page 46 is is birth entry 8. Vendémiaire X which means he was born 30. September 1800 and not 29 September 1801 as previously discussed.

But the l'Echo du monde link brought me to another entry:

gabriel

Jean Gabriel Prêtre (1800-1840) Swiss artist, bird painter at the Natural History Mus., Paris (syn. Heliothryx barroti).

First of all there is no dedication in the article from Delattre. So where is the information from that it is for the artist. As well see Wikipedia entry about the date of birth and death. Same wrong fror pretrei in HBW Alive.
 
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Martin, thanks for the dates re Pretre. I seemed to have missed out a "fl."!
Owen Wynne's Biographical Key, 1969, has "fl. 1800-1840", and Christine Jackson's Dictionary of Bird Artists of the World, 1999, has "fl. 1800-1850."
 
Does this mean:

● "O. [Ornismya] Henrica" DELATTRE & LESSON 1839 [syn. Lampornis amethystinus SWAINSON 1827] … and supposedly then also the invalid Generic name "Delattria" BONAPARTE 1850 [syn. Lampornis SWAINSON 1827], ex L. amethystinus)
= the French artist (Augustin) Henri Delattre [or De Lattre] (1800-1867), older brother of the Naturalist (Pierre) Adolphe Delattre [or De Lattre].

Or?

Compare with the delattrii, delatrii and delattrei entries mentioned in my post No. 2, this thread.

PS. Martin, I´m starting to get the feeling you´re the guy behind those full German Wiki-pages! ;)
 
If I understood the calculation of 8. Vendémiaire X correct (and the very difficult to read is really Vendémiaire) you are correct the date of birth should be 1800. But as Brumaire follows in the list it is very likely that Vendémiaire is correct.
 
You can find here

Select:
1) Naissance
2) Saint-Omer
3) entre 1800 et 1801

The code is 3 E 473.

But attached more details as in Wiki.
 

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Ok Martin, thanks, I had the impression those matters had been discussed here, earlier on Birdforum. And I couldn´t find it anywhere! No wonder.

But as I see it the excerpt (also in the Wiki-page) and the link you forwarded (in Post No. 8) is from a book covering the births in 1793!?!?

See here, site page 46/117 and flip backwards to p.30/117.

What´s that gott to do with "our" guy, of either 1800 or 1801?

And "1801–1876" in Post #10. Sigh! Once again I have a feeling we´re looking at some kind of mix-up. How many brothers were there in that Delattre/De Lattre Family?

However; also note that Jobling today, still has "1801-1867" in his entries for the henrica and in the second post of delattrii.

:brains:
I simply don´t understand, or am I missing something?
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And James,

What made you change (and expand) the entries for these names; delatrii / delattrei, Delattria and delattrii, compared to your Dictionary of Scientific Bird Names 2010 (excerpts attached)?

I saw that the henrica wasn´t in it (thereby, of course, not changed), but noted that today's HBW Alive Key still is unchanged for henrici:
henrici / henricii
[…]
● Henri de Lattre (fl. 1838) French naturalist, collector in Mexico (syn. Lampornis amethystinus).
Just curious … and the Puzzle continues.

Björn
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@ Björn, I think your interpretation on 1793 is wrong. The book starts with entries from from 1792 till 1805. It is sorted that way that it starts with all last names starting with A for year 1 or I (equal to 1792/93), year 2 or II (equal to 1794) etc till the year 10 or X. After last names with A following the names with B with the same schema year 1, etc pp. At the beginning I was confused as well. At that time they used the French Republican Calendar

I enhanced the search to Saint-Omer (62) - Naissances entre 1801 et 1806 and you see the result in attached screenshot.

Our relevant code is from 1792-an X

Regarding his death here page 14.

PS. I am still not convinced that Henri collected in Mexico (all was Adolphe). I couldn't find any evidence that Henri was with him on tour. Henri was around 1849 to 1855 at Philadelphia and Canada as I understood.
 

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Björn,
Nearly twenty years separated my A Dictionary of Scientific Bird Names (Oxford University Press) and The Helm Dictionary of Scientific Bird Names (Christopher Helm) published in 2010. Both are valuable printed references. Yet, in the subsequent five years much more information has become available, especially on the valuable resource that is BHL, and as a result of interest in nomenclature and scientific names sparked by BirdForum. I regard the HBWAlive Key to Scientific Names in Ornithology as the natural successor to my previous 'great works,' and rejoice in my ability within it to update or create entries immediately at the touch of a key - impossible to achieve in a printed work (all authors lament that their work becomes out of date on publication). Hence the apparent discrepancies re the De Lattres between the three references reflect merely the passage of time - and note the speed with which I updated henrica!
James
 
Martin, interpretation or interpretation? Thanks, but it´s more (me starring at those French pages) like wild guesses. I´m pleased to read that this book caused you some confusion as well, in the beginning. That makes me feel a little less stupid.

Sorry if I make a mess and just confuse things.

In any case; I do agree on your PS. (in Post No. 13), I also doubt Henri was ever in Mexico (at least not the Henri we know of this far)!

I´m preparing a Post of most Delattre birds. Soon to appear in this thread.

And James,
That "all authors lament that their work becomes out of date on publication" is more than a well-known fact to me. So do I, being an author (and illustrator) by trade, with first-hand personal experience of it. And that changes are unavoidable as time goes by, is of course, fully understandable. Also the fact that in extensive works, like yours, the odd one could easily be missed and left unchanged, simply by the complexity and the vast quantity of all various names, linked or coined to or after whomever.

But what I was curious about here, in this particular case, is was what source, the precise source, alt. clever links or ditto connections that made you add those years on the Delattre/De Lattre Brothers. I failed to find them.

As simple as that.

Keep up the good work, both of you!
:t:
 
Conclusion and back-step

Regarding the Delattre Brothers a k a De Lattre (alt. deLattre or DeLattre) and "their" birds ...

Ok, whatever, this is apparently a far trickier thread than it first looked like ... but here we go: Beolens, Watkins & Grayson's The Eponym Dictionary of Birds 2014 tells us the following; here, here and here. Based on what I do not know, but they have been wrong before.

Thereby, this far, I don´t dare to claim more than the following (on my behalf that´s enough, at least for my MS, I simply have to push on) …

henrica/henrici
● in the invalid "O. [Ornismya] Henrica" (DELATTRE &) LESSON 1839 (here) [syn. Lampornis amethystinus SWAINSON 1827] a k a "O.-M. [Oiseaux-Mouche] Henry" (from the OD, in French) or as "Henry De Lattre's Cazique" (Delattria henrici) by Gould alt. "Henri Delattre's Humming Bird" by Ridgway.
Dédié à Henry De Lattre, voyageur et frère de M. De Lattre
= Henri (or Henry) Delattre (fl. 1838 alt. 1839), brother of the Naturalist and explorer (Pierre) Adolphe Delattre.

If he is equal, or not, of the only Henri (alt. Henry) we´ve heard of, this far, I cannot tell, not for sure. He could be the older brother [of (Pierre) Adolphe Delattre], if so being the French artist (mostly painting human or animal portraits) Augustin Henri Delattre. But he wasn´t much of a traveller?

More than that, when he was born, in 1800 or 1801 … or if he died in 1867 or 1876, I simply cannot tell? Neither do I know if any of those birth or death dates/years, are correct, or if we should be looking for yet another possible travelling (voyageur) brother, that could have been involved!? But if Henri is Adolphe's only brother there is little doubt. If not a simple error (if so, most likely, by Lesson), for Louis Henri Delattre, father (père) of them both? Did he travel? Anyone know?

However; it does look like Martin is getting close to the truth and that it, in fact, is the above mentioned Augustin Henri Delattre ("1800–1876") that we´re looking for, but it´s beyond me to tell either way.

In any case; as the henrica/henrici Hummingbird isn´t on my list (of Swedish Common Bird names) I will leave him here. My understanding of French (i.e. more the lack of it) doesn´t allow me to go any deeper. Sorry. But; good luck pin-pointing him (if still uncertain) and please do not hesitate to explain and/or convince us all. ;)

------------------------------------------

In fact, the only bird I truly have to check in detail (in this thread, that is) is one delattrii, and for this single bird I think it´s fair to claim:

delattrii
● in the debated subspecies (or species) Basileuterus (rufifrons) delattrii BONAPARTE 1854 (here) as "Basileuterus delattrii" (earlier, in Swedish, called "deLattreskogssångare", today a nameless subspecies of " Rufous-capped Warbler" Basileuterus rufifrons)
No out-spoken dedication, but the title (of this multi-part-article, p.378) tells us: "Notes sur les Collections rapportées en 1853, par M. [M. = Monsieur, Mr.] A. Delattre , de son vojage en Californie et dans le Nicaragua, …"
= the French naturalist, collector (of various Naturalia) and explorer Adolphe Delattre (1805–1854), whose full name was Pierre Adolphe Delattre (or De Lattre) – who collected birds in Mexico, Panama, Nicaragua, Brazil, Colombia, Bolivia, Peru and Guatemala [and elsewhere in South America, (and in California) for twenty years, between 1831/32 and 1851/53]. He was apparently also, like his older brother Henri (above), somewhat of an artist (bird illustrator).

Note: This bird was collected in Peru, not in Columbia as earlier believed. See link here, bottom p.112.

Also see this link: here.

That’s it!

That´s the only Delattre bird on my list.
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Only thing I want to add is that I read the dedication different. I think the voyageur (traveller) is for Henry and not for Adolphe. As I mentioned earlier he travelled as well but I do not believe that he was in Mexico.
 
Continuation ...

But … while I´m at it (why not mention them when I did look them up?); In my view the same goes (partly contradictory the HBW Alive Key!) for the following scientific names (and birds):

delattrei (Original spelling; De Lattrei?)
● Rufous-crested Coquette Lophornis delattrei LESSON 1839 (p.19, here) as "Ornismya (Lophorinus) De Lattrei" [it looks like it´s written with blanc spacing!?] a k a "De Lattre's Coquette".
No out-spoken dedication, but as it was discovered and collected by "M. De Lattre dans son voyage en Amérigue" (i.e. Peru), and named differently than the "Henrica" (in the same article) thereby I assume …
= (Pierre) Adolphe Delattre (1805–1854), as in Post #17.

delatrii
● Tawny-crested Tanager Tachyphonus delatrii LAFRESNAYE 1847 (here) as "Tachyphonus Delatrii"
No out-spoken dedication; more than the title of the article where the OD is found: " Quelques oiseaux nouveaux ou rares rapportés par M. Delatre [sic], de Bolivie, de la Nouvelle-Grenade, et de Panama", thereby:
= (Pierre) Adolphe Delattre (1805–1854).

delattrii
● the subspecies Crypturellus cinnamomeus delattrii BONAPARTE 1854 (here) as "Tinamus delattrii"
No out-spoken dedication, but the title (p.650) tells us: "Notes sur les Collections rapportées en 1853, par M. A. Delattre , de son vojage en Californie et dans le Nicaragua, …"
= (Pierre) Adolphe Delattre (1805–1854).

"De Lattre" / "De Lattrei"/ "delattre" / "delattrii" / "delattrei"
● the invalid (highly changeable) "Ornismya (Campylopterus) De Lattre" () LESSON 1839 (p.14, here, clearly with blanc spacing). No obvious dedication, but (as earlier): "découverts par M. De Lattre dans son voyage en Amérigue" (probably in Guatemala?) later a k a "Mellisuga De Lattrei" GRAY 1848 (here) or "Campylopterus delattre" BONAPARTE 1850 (here) alt. "Campylopterus delattrii" BONAPARTE 1854 (here) and "Campylopterus Delattrei" REICHENBACH 1855, ditto by GOULD 1861 ("De Lattre's Sabre Wing") [all synonyms of Campylopterus hemileucurus DEPPE 1830]
= (Pierre) Adolphe Delattre (1805–1854).

And the last one:

Delattria
● in the invalid Generic name "Delattria" BONAPARTE 1850 (here*) and also in 1854 (here) [syn. Lampornis SWAINSON 1827].
No dedication, however see this note (here, p.83) by Richmond 1902 and this Richmond Card, here (Richmond and his crew usually did their homework):
"Genus named for Delattre the traveller,
Species '' '' [named for] Henri '' [Delattre], brother of the above"
… clearly indicating the Generic name is commemorating the younger brother, Adolphe Delattre (not the other way around, as often claimed! Though the reason/s alt. source/s for such claim is unknown to me). Of course, it´s not dead certain which one of the (this far known) Brothers is the "traveller", as they both traveled, but as Henri Delattre's travels apparently was of more private nature (to North America; Canada in 1830 and Philadelphia, from 1850 to 1855), in this (ornithological) context I assume it´s Adolphe Delattre who deserves the title "the traveller" and as they are clearly held apart by Richmond I assume the Genus Delattria was not named after any Henri, nor the Henri we´ve seen this far [as supposed in Post No.5 (i.e. simply trusting the HBW Alive Key) neither was any of the Delattre Brother responsible for the discovery of Lampornis amethystinus SWAINSON 1827, here and here (nor is the latter, I think, by necessity connected to "Henrica"). That one was found and collected by the Bullock's].
= most likely (Pierre) Adolphe Delattre (1805–1854).

*Note Bonaparte's own remark: "abnormis: an propr. genus?"

Don´t hesitate to prove me wrong or otherwise!

---------------------------
For further details (in German) see Wiki-links; Pierre Adolphe Delattre and Augustin Henri Delattre. I assume the latter, in that Wiki-page, spelled with hyphen, is a simple misunderstanding as hyphens often was used (in French texts) merely as an indication (to show) what´s their given names vs the (in French) often multi-parted Family names.
---------------------------

However; enjoy!

That´s all! On my part ...

Björn

PS. While searching for the above mentioned ones I noted three other delattrii birds (not listed in the HBW Alive Key):
● "Dendrocinla delattrii" (nomen nudum?) BONAPARTE 1854, here. See Richmond card, here.
● "Picolaptes delattrii" BONAPARTE 1854 Unseen. Richmond card, here.
●"Dr. [Dryotomus] delattrii" BONAPARTE 1856 (?), here. See Richmond card, here. Although also mentioned earlier in the same book (here).

Their story is totally unknown to me.

PPS. And Mark, regarding the thread title species Plain-capped Starthroat Heliomaster constantii DELATTRE 1843 a k a "Constant's Starthroat" or "Constant Starthroat" (!) I have nothing to add. Sorry. And excuse us for "kidnapping" your thread with these tedious Delattre's, leaving your initial Constant far behind. It just happened.

Delattre … over and out!
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I agree to most but I am not convinced about Delattria.

Gould named the hummer Henry De Lattre's Cazique and Ridgeway Henri Delattre's Humming Bird (of course because of henrica). I am not sure why Richmond is convinced it is for Adolphe. There is no unambiguous answer to me. It could be a dedication for both. Only reason could be that I see no connection from Bonaparte to Henri Delattre.
 
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