• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

which Stonechat - Jeddah ? (1 Viewer)

I'm affraid without more pics showing rump and underwing you wouldn't really get an opinion here. Difficult taxon... looks fairly dark for a Siberan if you ask me. Any more pics?
 
Excellent shots ammadoux...as is often the case.

A white rump and a mostly dark underwing, I’d like to read the argument against this bird not being ascribed to the Siberian race.

Cheers
 
In NE Germany (and further east?) many of the local breeding males show an extensive white rump that, when freshly moulted, is obscured by broad pale orange fringes. Those males have fairly dark (but not jet black) underwing coverts. I can't be sure about the underwing from those shots. Might be a maurus might be not...
 
In NE Germany (and further east?) many of the local breeding males show an extensive white rump that, when freshly moulted, is obscured by broad pale orange fringes. Those males have fairly dark (but not jet black) underwing coverts. I can't be sure about the underwing from those shots. Might be a maurus might be not...

went back to that area again, and found many, each one looks different for the other. will upload more images later.
 
here are two images of one stonechat, not sure if it is the same.
 

Attachments

  • SC14a.jpg
    SC14a.jpg
    126.4 KB · Views: 23
  • SC15a.jpg
    SC15a.jpg
    200.3 KB · Views: 41
This is one of the Caspian Stonechats, North or hemprichii, I would say, from the Wheatear-like tail pattern. Whether you view this form as part of the Siberian complex or not is up to you. I have an idea that your first bird might have been South Caspian or variegatus.
 
This is one of the Caspian Stonechats, North or hemprichii, I would say, from the Wheatear-like tail pattern. Whether you view this form as part of the Siberian complex or not is up to you. I have an idea that your first bird might have been South Caspian or variegatus.

thanks Andy.

so let me say what i understand, the Caspian is the Northern ss of the Siberian, and the variegatus is the Southern ss.

and the Caspian could be considered as a separate species form the Siberian.
 
Hi Ammadoux,
hemprichii breeds to the north of the Caspian Sea, it has a lot of white in the outer tail
variegatus breeds to the south of the Caspian Sea, it has a bit less white in the outer tail
maurus breeds in central Siberia, it has no white in the outer tail

hemprichii and variegatus collectively are known as "Caspian Stonechat" but I don't think anyone considers them a different species to maurus?

James

EDIT: also note that there is confusion with the scientific names - in older references south Caspian ssp. is called "armenicus" and north Caspian ssp. is called "variegatus"
 
Last edited:
There are two races of Stonechat which are together referred to as Caspian Stonechat, North Caspian or hemprichii, and South Caspian or variegatus. I'm not completely sure what variegatus looks like, but I think it has less white on the tail than hemprichii, the one with the Wheatear-like tail pattern. Many birders don't seem to bother to separate them. Both races used to be treated as races of Siberian or maurus, but there seems to be some doubt over the exact distribution of variegatus in Turkey. More research needs to be done on the whole complex and HBW for the moment is lumping all forms together. Our UAE checklist lists "Caspian Stonechat" or hemprichii as a subspecies of Siberian.
 
Warning! This thread is more than 5 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top