Worlds best roof prism versus the world's best porro prism binocular! (1 Viewer)

jaymoynihan · Jul 10, 2012

Yesterday evening i was looking at a humming bird perched on a bare branch, against a blue sky, about 75 feet away, with my SE. I could see surface detail and color, and its tiny eyes. The reason i am posting this, is that the Sun was 1 FOV to my right at the time.

Jonathan B. · Jul 10, 2012

[email protected] said:
First time I looked through an SE in while. I put them up to my eyes and went WOW! No wonder they are legendary they are seriously good optics! The SN 550846 means mine have the newer coatings and are eco glass. I am just going to discuss the optics and then award a winner between the two but first a few things about the binoculars. The Nikon EDG II 8x32 and Nikon 8x32 SE look similar in alot of ways. The armouring on both is almost identical and very comfortable. The focus on both also is very similar meaning very smooth with no rough gritty spots and equally smooth turning both ways. In other words perfect. Both of them have excellent ergonomics and balance and you can tell they are really quality. Weight is actually pretty close with the EDG weighing a couple of ounces more than the SE. Of course the EDG is waterproof and fogproof and focuses closer but both binoculars have very similar FOV's. Diopters work perfect on both and the IPD tension is perfect. I had no trouble with blackouts in the SE like some have reported. They work perfectly for me. The EDG has rollup eyecups while the SE has rubber but if the rubber eyecups hit the ER you need they work just as well as the rollups. These two binoculars represent one of the best porro prism binoculars made and one of the best roof prism binoculars made. In my opinion they are the best. Now, to the optics. Using both binoculars for a while and doing a little birding with them I noticed several things. The SE of course has a better 3D image and this can be be very beneficial in birding. The SE has also has better DOF which is also helpful because you don't have to focus as much as you do with the EDG II. CA in both was well controlled and I couldn't give the advantage to either because I could see very little CA in either binocular. The SE has better glare control which was obvious when observing near the sunset. The edges on both binoculars were almost the same being very sharp with a very slight advantage going to the EDG which is razor sharp right to the edge. When you look off center in the SE you can see a very, very slight fuzziness at the edge ,whereas, in the EDG the edge is razor sharp. Contrast in both is excellent and I would rate them equal. The Nikon SE 8x32 to my eyes has better contrast than the EII 8x30 which I just tried a few days ago and much sharper edges. When birding with the two I noticed the SE brought out fine gradations of color and hues that the EDG didn't. The SE could help you ID a bird in tough situations better than the EDG I feel because of this. Finally, I took the binoculars and compared resolution on a chart at about 20 feet away and I found the SE could resolve just a hair better than the EDG. Print was more readable with the SE and I think this is why the SE brings a little more detail out of the bird especially when you are looking into shadows and under cover. These are both amazingly good binoculars but I think the porro optically is a slight bit better which is amazing because it is 1/4 the price. It presents an awesome 3D sharp view that is hard to beat. I would have to give the title of the world's best binocular to the Nikon 8x32 SE. It is legendary but it deserves it. Buy one before they are all gone!

Dennis, you have finally come to your senses! After twelve years I still consider my SE the greatest bin I have ever owned or used, and that has included Nikon EII 8x30, Swarovski EL, Swarovski Habicht (porro), Leica Ultravid, Zeiss FL, and others. No other bin offers the crystalline, dazzling, razor-sharp image of the SE with its ability to separate the most subtle differences in tone and color--all of this exactly as you have described. I use my 8x32 EL much more often, simply because it is fog- and waterproof. Its ability to resolve detail on a test chart is very close to the SE, but the image in the SE is superior, often in ways that are hard to describe.

If you have a chance to handle the Swaro 8x30 porro, you will be impressed. The image is comparable to EII, and for my hands its ergonomics are in my top three with SE and 8x32 EL. It has a feel of extraordinary quality.

I have little interest in looking at new bins, but you have inspired me to take a look at EDG II while also looking at 8x32 Swarovision. And by the way, don't let anybody fool you with talk of flare in the EDG. The 8x32 EL exhibits much more flare than SE or Ultravid, including the pre-HD Ultravid, but it is still a fine binocular.

14Goudvink · Jul 10, 2012

Seriously, I get the impression that some roofs are right there with the porros in the apparent sharpness department, like zeiss 8x42 FL, 8x56 FL, 7x42 FL (?), Swaro 8,5x42 SV, 8x32 SV and some others.

To my eyes I had to look more closely in the SE than in the SV to see fine detail. Maybe it is the bigger image scale in the SV or the easier eye placement. This is all very subjective of course.

George

Sandy Leng · Jul 10, 2012

"both amazingly good binoculars but I think the porro optically is a slight bit better which is amazing because it is 1/4 the price. It presents an awesome 3D sharp view that is hard to beat. I would have to give the title of the world's best binocular to the Nikon 8x32 SE. It is legendary but it deserves it. Buy one before they are all gone!"

These last few lines of Dennis's very good review have made me realise how good the 8x32 SE's must be. I have never looked through a pair but for him to rate them optically better than his EDG II's must have suprised a few people!

"The worlds best binocular" who would have thought it.

Sandy.

Alexis Powell · Jul 10, 2012

Wow Dennis, I am impressed. Many on Birdforum disparage your fickle relationships with binoculars, but it seems we are nevertheless unable to escape being moved by your proclamations, especially when they accord with our own judgments. Now (as in, at this moment), when you have found true love with a porro, all is forgiven, or at least forgotten (at least for now, in the moment) by the SE fan club. What will they think, tomorrow, when you wake up and can't figure what you ever saw in the SE? I wonder how you'd feel about the 8.5x42 SV if you got one that had no issues with the focus, especially if it is true that recent units have a smoother distortion curve and a bit of pincushion (see http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?p=2485505#post2485505 ). With its 8.5x magnification, it certainly shows more detail than the 8x SE. Just a suggestion.

--AP

Pileatus · Jul 10, 2012

Alexis Powell said:
Wow Dennis, I am impressed. Many on Birdforum disparage your fickle relationships with binoculars, but it seems we are nevertheless unable to escape being moved by your proclamations, especially when they accord with our own judgments. Now (as in, at this moment), when you have found true love with a porro, all is forgiven, or at least forgotten (at least for now, in the moment) by the SE fan club. What will they think, tomorrow, when you wake up and can't figure what you ever saw in the SE? I wonder how you'd feel about the 8.5x42 SV if you got one that had no issues with the focus, especially if it is true that recent units have a smoother distortion curve and a bit of pincushion (see http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?p=2485505#post2485505 ). With its 8.5x magnification, it certainly shows more detail than the 8x SE. Just a suggestion.

--AP

One would think the .5 would make a difference...it just ain't so. I own them both. Also, it's just a "rumor" that Swaro changed the SV formula.
You gotta love BF!

Alexis Powell · Jul 10, 2012

Pileatus said:
One would think the .5 would make a difference...it just ain't so.

The only way for the .5x not to make a difference would be for your eyes to resolve more detail than the bins (assuming equal resolving ability of the bins), and that just ain't so. In critical testing, I've always found that the detail I can see is limited by the magnification. I'm not saying that the diff between 8 and 8.5x is of practical significance for birding, because in that respect, I don't think there is a difference. Along these same lines, I have no idea what Dennis' resolution test at 20' is all about. Maybe these bins differ a bit in magnification? Or is he hand holding the bins, in which case maybe it is about ergonomics?

--AP

Pileatus · Jul 11, 2012

Alexis Powell said:
The only way for the .5x not to make a difference would be for your eyes to resolve more detail than the bins (assuming equal resolving ability of the bins), and that just ain't so. In critical testing, I've always found that the detail I can see is limited by the magnification. I'm not saying that the diff between 8 and 8.5x is of practical significance for birding, because in that respect, I don't think there is a difference. Along these same lines, I have no idea what Dennis' resolution test at 20' is all about. Maybe these bins differ a bit in magnification? Or is he hand holding the bins, in which case maybe it is about ergonomics?

--AP

The 8.5X42 SV is, in my opinion, as good as it gets in the world of roof prism bins. The 8X32 SE, believe it or not, shows every bit of detail one sees in the 8.5X42 SV. At close range (as Dennis reported) the SE wins...by a hair. One can argue why (porro, roof, dielectric, contrast, etc.) but it's easy to see.

The reported .5 magnification difference in the SV does not improve on the SE's image in any way, shape or form.

Sancho · Jul 11, 2012

Pileatus said:
The 8.5X42 SV is, in my opinion, as good as it gets in the world of roof prism bins. The 8X32 SE, believe it or not, shows every bit of detail one sees in the 8.5X42 SV. At close range (as Dennis reported) the SE wins...by a hair. One can argue why (porro, roof, dielectric, contrast, etc.) but it's easy to see.

The reported .5 magnification difference in the SV does not improve on the SE's image in any way, shape or form.

I found a different result. I found them very, very close, but I could resolve more detail, and got a more comfortable view, from the SV 8.5x42. For a little while, I considered selling the SV, but ergonomics, ease of view and the ability to resolve just a tad more, led me to sell of my 550xxx SE's. This might be an entirely personal thing. One problem I find with porros in general is that despite the 3D view, my brain seems to work harder on a day's birding, and I get more eye-strain. I find porros far more relaxing on the eyes, and my current faves are my SV 8x32. I reckon we might have similar models of binocular, but we all have different eyes.

denco@comcast.n · Jul 11, 2012

The SE is considered by many to be the best porro binocular made and for good reason.

denco@comcast.n · Jul 11, 2012

That my solve the SV's problems. Does the 8x32 SV have more pincushion? It would seem like it does because so many are reporting no rolling ball to speak of.

newfie ghost · Jul 11, 2012

Where's Brock on this? I mean Dennis goes from the villain to the hero and Brock has nothing to say. He must be on vacation.

Dennis the SE must be good for you to give this kind of review.

I need to sell my EDG and get an SE. $800 bucks and it's yours.

Alexis Powell · Jul 11, 2012

Pileatus said:
The 8.5X42 SV is, in my opinion, as good as it gets in the world of roof prism bins. The 8X32 SE, believe it or not, shows every bit of detail one sees in the 8.5X42 SV. At close range (as Dennis reported) the SE wins...by a hair. One can argue why (porro, roof, dielectric, contrast, etc.) but it's easy to see.

The reported .5 magnification difference in the SV does not improve on the SE's image in any way, shape or form.

Pileatus: My earlier comment was based on testing quite a few bins. Unless there is something horribly wrong, with standard lighting magnification determines the resolution available to the eye. I've tried the SV on many occasions but I haven't bench tested it against the SE (which I own, love, and respect, so you've no argument there from me). I have tested the SE against the 8.5x EL and the advantage of the latter is easily to see (in that context). It is the secret to success in yielding the high center resolution of the Swift 8.5x44 Audubon. Similarly, any crappy 10x shows more detail than any of my best 7, 8 and 8.5x bins.

Dennis, you need to explain more about what your 20' test is about, but it sounds from your reply that you might be ready to give the 8.5x SV another try, or the 8x SV a try?

--AP

Chhayanat · Jul 11, 2012

Jonathan B. said:
Dennis, you have finally come to your senses! After twelve years I still consider my SE the greatest bin I have ever owned or used, and that has included Nikon EII 8x30, Swarovski EL, Swarovski Habicht (porro), Leica Ultravid, Zeiss FL, and others. No other bin offers the crystalline, dazzling, razor-sharp image of the SE with its ability to separate the most subtle differences in tone and color--all of this exactly as you have described. ......

The great potential importance of the review by Dennis - while not ignoring his felicity of expression - is that it might make Nikon come to their senses with a Nikon SE Avatar (or the nearest their second-rate ad people can get to the Sanskrit word for reincarnation; Avatar is incarnation) priced at $2300?.
We once had a go at the Nikon representative on BF on how the SE could be improved but he wisely moved away from that thread. Perhaps there will be a second go at him - in a well-meant civilised discourse - after the review by Dennis.
Chhayanat

denco@comcast.n · Jul 11, 2012

jaymoynihan said:
Yesterday evening i was looking at a humming bird perched on a bare branch, against a blue sky, about 75 feet away, with my SE. I could see surface detail and color, and its tiny eyes. The reason i am posting this, is that the Sun was 1 FOV to my right at the time.

That's impressive. Until I tested these two I never realized that the flare control on the SE was better than the EDG. I had a HARD time even inducing flare on the SE.

denco@comcast.n · Jul 12, 2012

newfie ghost said:
Where's Brock on this? I mean Dennis goes from the villain to the hero and Brock has nothing to say. He must be on vacation.

Dennis the SE must be good for you to give this kind of review.

I need to sell my EDG and get an SE. $800 bucks and it's yours.

I don't care for the balance on the EDG I. The EDG II has several improvements on it that I like. Maybe Brock would buy it. He could say there is something wrong with it and then send it into Nikon and get a new EDG II at no cost to him. Heck I might sell my EDG II after seeing this new SE. Brock you want to buy a brand new EDG II for $2K with free shipping?

denco@comcast.n · Jul 12, 2012

Alexis Powell said:
Pileatus: My earlier comment was based on testing quite a few bins. Unless there is something horribly wrong, with standard lighting magnification determines the resolution available to the eye. I've tried the SV on many occasions but I haven't bench tested it against the SE (which I own, love, and respect, so you've no argument there from me). I have tested the SE against the 8.5x EL and the advantage of the latter is easily to see (in that context). It is the secret to success in yielding the high center resolution of the Swift 8.5x44 Audubon. Similarly, any crappy 10x shows more detail than any of my best 7, 8 and 8.5x bins.

Dennis, you need to explain more about what your 20' test is about, but it sounds from your reply that you might be ready to give the 8.5x SV another try, or the 8x SV a try?

--AP

The 20' test is just looking at a resolution chart with mixed up print and symbols at 20' inside the house. You can use a book if you like but sometimes your eyes will think they see things that they don't really see. But even with a book you can read the fine print easier with the SE. It is a small diifference but it is definitely there. The print is more clearly resolved and not as jumbled. I think this difference extrapolates to the difference you see in the very fine shadings and subtle color nuances on birds that the SE will differentiate and the EDG won't. Try it.

newfie ghost · Jul 12, 2012

[email protected] said:
I don't care for the balance on the EDG I. The EDG II has several improvements on it that I like. Maybe Brock would buy it. He could say there is something wrong with it and then send it into Nikon and get a new EDG II at no cost to him. Heck I might sell my EDG II after seeing this new SE. Brock you want to buy a brand new EDG II for $2K with free shipping?

You're bad. Lol.

But seriously were is Brock? I voted him as second most famous BF member. Come on Brock comment on Dennis's SE review.

I bought my EDG as a referb, the case and rain guard are not original but optically it is nice. Probably miss it if i sold it. Only paid 700 for it.

Do they honor the warnenty with a referb?

denco@comcast.n · Jul 12, 2012

newfie ghost said:
Where's Brock on this? I mean Dennis goes from the villain to the hero and Brock has nothing to say. He must be on vacation.

Dennis the SE must be good for you to give this kind of review.

I need to sell my EDG and get an SE. $800 bucks and it's yours.

Hurry up on the SE. Adorama already sold out on the supply they got in from Nikon. I think there is a pent up demand for them now that the supply is dwindling. Prices are rising also. $700.00 is the average price now versus $500.00 a couple of years ago.

denco@comcast.n · Jul 12, 2012

newfie ghost said:
You're bad. Lol.

But seriously were is Brock? I voted him as second most famous BF member. Come on Brock comment on Dennis's SE review.

I bought my EDG as a referb, the case and rain guard are not original but optically is is nice. Probably miss it if i sold it. Only paid 700 for it.

Do they honor the warnenty with a referb?

I don't think so. You could try.It's never hurts to try.

Worlds best roof prism versus the world's best porro prism binocular! (1 Viewer)

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