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Bresser Montana

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Old Sunday 15th October 2017, 13:18   #1
Coin Hound
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Bresser Montana

I took the binocular bait from the 'bargain' page--glad I did.

Here's the 1040--Made in Japan--surprisingly similar to Weaver Grand/Superslam series line. Probably same assembly line with different armor, graphics (?). Much lighter than 8.5/45 Superslam--different color coatings--same FOV. Leather case, not cheap plastic!

SUPERB focus--On par with my Mavens/Tract A+
Great, not superb eyecups-- an A-
Brightness/contrast/sharpness--over image quality A
Distortion/CA/Coma--these is some, not a big deal--certainly NOT a perfectly flat image A-

I paid $180 shipped--if I had a 'way back machine' I would take these over anything else just based on price versus value.

[i]OK--nothing we have not seen--great optics at a greater price--but the question now for those out there--

Prices for QUALITY optics are dropping--and we are seeing multiple binoculars look VERY VERY similar (Maven, Tract, Sig, Nikon, Ziess, Weaver, Leupold, Burris, GPO, and now Bresser, just off the top of my head)--just how many factories/manufacturers are there?

There must be one giant super factory spitting out ~~10 different branded binoculars. Just what is the product cost? Who would pay 1K for a pair of $180 binoculars?
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Old Sunday 15th October 2017, 13:38   #2
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I don't believe that anyone pays $1,000 for a pair of $180 binoculars, no matter how loudly they are proclaimed to be "the same".

(they aren't)
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Old Sunday 15th October 2017, 22:05   #3
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I did...

However, I made small error--they are not $1,000--they are $799--but hurry, only 4 pair left.

Just how 'different' are all of these binoculars? How much cost is there?

Did Bresser or Amazon take a loss here? I doubt it--but someone will fork out top dollar just for the 'name'.
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Old Sunday 15th October 2017, 22:10   #4
Maljunulo
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-but someone will fork out top dollar just for the 'name'.
There's the fallacy right there.

The idea that all you get for the additional money is the name is just flat-out untrue.

Carry on though.
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Old Monday 16th October 2017, 02:48   #5
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Re-read above post

The giant factory in question is Kamakura--the only time these binoculars have a name is the LAST part of the manufacture.

If the lower end quality companies (Bushnell) are doing this with Chinese products, why not the upper mid tier companies with Japanese origin?

I am NOT suggesting the highest end Leica, Swaro, or Zeiss--they are in a class by themselves I would hope.

I'm willing to bet a pizza the glass, prisms, coatings, rubber, sealant, magnesium, aluminum, plastic and cardboard are coming from the same sources for many of these 'brands'.

Furthermore, if we were to take apart these same binoculars, we could not tell who is who or what is what.

The design might be unique--if you read carefully, many of the newer up-start companies do not claim to manufacture anything--

My parents had an Audi 100LS back in 1976. Same car had VW Bug seatbelts. Pretty sure the brakes on my brother's Camaro were the same as those on a Firebird.

Same thought here.

I sure hope you did not pay $799--Amazon has a great return policy though!

Don't feel bad if you did--I paid full price for my Mavens
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Old Monday 16th October 2017, 09:34   #6
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Coin hound post 5,
You just lost a pizza, so you can send it to my home address.
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Old Monday 16th October 2017, 10:12   #7
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Colin

It is understandable you think all of these binos are the same, but it is likely to be untrue for at least some, possibly most of them.

Zeiss's Terra and Conquest are Zeiss optical designs wth exteriors designed by their chosen consultant.

I know that GPO specified magnesium instead of aluminium for their bino bodies and machined aluminium for the eyecups (which are the best in the business) and changed the materials, surface finishes and grease used for the focus to achieve the 'focus feel' that they required. Other parameters such as eye relief, close focus distance and field of view can be specified, not to mention different grades of ED glass. Don't make the mistake of thinking that when brands advertise that their binos contain ED glass that they are all referring to the same glass, there are different grades. There are other parameters that a brand might prioritise such as chromatic aberration control. All of these things and doubtless many others will be considered by each brand depending on whether their priority is the birding market or tourist or hunting market, and can take into consideration spectacle wearers and close focus enthusiasts.

Specifying different materials and optical parameters etc all come with an extra cost so we can expect the lowest price binos to be the clones that you are possibly thinking about and at the highest prices we can expect many attributes to have been specially designed-in at the request of the brand.

While you are ordering pizza please make mine a ham, cheese, tomato and Italian herb topping, and definitely no pineapple. Thanks.

Lee
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Old Monday 16th October 2017, 13:36   #8
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Just mushrooms and black olives on mine.
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Old Monday 16th October 2017, 17:46   #9
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Since all pizza is alike none will mind

Little Caesars, Pizza! Pizza!
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Old Monday 16th October 2017, 18:10   #10
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Coin Hound didn't say all these binoculars were the same, but that the materials for many of these brands are coming from the same sources. It was also mentioned that they may have unique design differences.

I'm not taking that bet.
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Old Monday 16th October 2017, 21:49   #11
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Again re read my original post

"and we are seeing multiple binoculars look VERY VERY similar"--my original point.

Not once did I ever say they were the "same".

Is the price worth it? $180 versus $1000??

I would like to know how much DNA these binoculars share in common--Just how similar are the Mavens to the Tracts to the GPO to even the lowly Bresser?


What is the difference to justify a huge price difference? What value does a name add to the total cost?



On a lighter note, I see posts from all over the planet--how is the pizza on the other side of the pond?
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Old Monday 16th October 2017, 23:20   #12
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The name does not "add value" the differences in optics, materials and construction that the different brands specify adds value.

You seem to be assuming that just because they are made in the same factory they all use the same materials.

That is not necessarily true. The factory will build to your specs and add your label, if you buy enough units.

If I want more expensive coatings, or "better" ED glass, or a more robust construction, they will do that, but I won't sell those glasses for $180.
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Old Tuesday 17th October 2017, 02:49   #13
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The name does not "add value" the differences in optics, materials and construction that the different brands specify adds value.
Opticron Countryman 8x32--$479
Leupold Mojave 8x32--$349
Cabelas Pro Guide 8x32--$249 (on sale now for $165)
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Old Tuesday 17th October 2017, 11:46   #14
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Originally Posted by kflan22 View Post
Opticron Countryman 8x32--$479
Leupold Mojave 8x32--$349
Cabelas Pro Guide 8x32--$249 (on sale now for $165)
I think it's the Opticron Traveller ED 8x32 (definitely not the Countryman) which
is the "clone" of the Mojave.

But your point is valid. These bins are very similar if not the same.

I agree with the OP's main point. Yes, the big names fully design the bins and have the OEM make to their specs which will make their binocular unique, but there are still plenty of "clones" out there by brands that simply pick from the OEM's book or ask to have then make the same bin as brand x, model a (the other name they are competing with). Much of the materials are the same; binoculars which are essentially the same in a different wrapper. Bill Cook explained this quite a while back.

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Old Tuesday 17th October 2017, 15:57   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coin Hound View Post
"and we are seeing multiple binoculars look VERY VERY similar"--my original point.

Not once did I ever say they were the "same".

On a lighter note, I see posts from all over the planet--how is the pizza on the other side of the pond?
Hi Colin
My apologies if I misrepresented you, but when you posted 'Probably same assembly line with different armor, graphics (?)' it looked to me like you were saying that only the armour and graphics were different and therefore that everything else was the same. This is no doubt the case with some but not with all.

We have a pizza shop in Sheffield, England, called Mama's and Leonies and they do the most tasty pizzas ever and have been doing so since 1968. It is in our town centre so we don't visit very often and make it a special treat. It helps that some of the staff have been there a long time and they are all friendly and welcoming.

Lee
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Old Tuesday 17th October 2017, 20:41   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coin Hound View Post
.................

[i]OK--nothing we have not seen--great optics at a greater price--but the question now for those out there--
..........
........ Who would pay 1K for a pair of $180 binoculars?
It appears you got a one time special price that does not reflect the going price for that binocular.

The way I see it, you do not have a $180 binocular but instead may have a $600 to $800 binocular that you were fortunate to get for $180.

If so, then the question is "Who would pay $1,000 for $600 to $800 binocular".

I have never seen the Montana so I am gong to assume that is in the $600 to $800 dollar range. I would be curious as to how it compares the Tract Toric and Opticron iMagic which are established models in that range.

Based on my experience with the Zeiss Conquest HD and what I have read of the Maven, I suspect these two offer a superior overall package. Whether any improvements are worth the price difference is an individual decision. Also keep in mind that at least in the case of the Conquest, the $1,000 price is the advertised price and it is generally not that hard to get a much better price if one is patient and willing to look.
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Old Wednesday 18th October 2017, 10:14   #17
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I wonder what the role of Guangzhou Bresser Optical Instruments Co Ltd., of Guangzhou, China, and who ship to Alpen Outdoor Corp., is in all this. From my research it appears that this company was formerly called Jinghua Optical & Electronics Co., Ltd., and was the main supplier (therefore possibly a manufacturer) of Bresser GmbH, Germany. It seems possible but by no means proven, that Bresser make their own binos and binos for other brands including Alpen, in China.

Lee

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Old Thursday 19th October 2017, 08:17   #18
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I wonder what the role of Guangzhou Bresser Optical Instruments Co Ltd., of Guangzhou, China, and who ship to Alpen Outdoor Corp., is in all this. From my research it appears that this company was formerly called Jinghua Optical & Electronics Co., Ltd., and was the main supplier (therefore possibly a manufacturer) of Bresser GmbH, Germany. It seems possible but by no means proven, that Bresser make their own binos and binos for other brands including Alpen, in China.

Lee
AFAIK Bresser (also known under the brand B.O.B. which is Bresser Optik Borken and founded by the father of Rolf Bresser) is the German copycat of David Bushnell.
In November 1989 the Edition Bresser Optik of the the well known Dr. Hans T. Seegers "red" book Feldstecher Ferngläser im Wandel der Zeit came into print which put Bresser also in the spotlights.
A very good example of marketing.


Also AFAIK the mother of the Bresser Montana/Bynolyt Albatross and several other clones is the Kowa Genesis.

Jan
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Old Thursday 19th October 2017, 11:39   #19
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Strictly looking at pictures, this Montana looks exactly like a Minox HG to me.
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Old Thursday 19th October 2017, 13:59   #20
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Originally Posted by jan van daalen View Post
AFAIK Bresser (also known under the brand B.O.B. which is Bresser Optik Borken and founded by the father of Rolf Bresser) is the German copycat of David Bushnell.
In November 1989 the Edition Bresser Optik of the the well known Dr. Hans T. Seegers "red" book Feldstecher Ferngläser im Wandel der Zeit came into print which put Bresser also in the spotlights.
A very good example of marketing.


Also AFAIK the mother of the Bresser Montana/Bynolyt Albatross and several other clones is the Kowa Genesis.

Jan
Thanks for this Jan. So does Guangzhou Bresser manufacture the Genesis for Kowa and the Albatross for Bynolyt?

Lee
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Old Thursday 19th October 2017, 14:16   #21
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Thanks for this Jan. So does Guangzhou Bresser manufacture the Genesis for Kowa and the Albatross for Bynolyt?

Lee
Hi Lee,

Not that I know of.
AFAIK is the complete line a Kamakura baby. It is possible that the cheap Bressers are made in (their?) a China plant. Does it say where the Montana is made? Japan or China. According to me, the Montana's were/are made in Japan.

Jan
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Old Thursday 19th October 2017, 15:48   #22
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Hi Lee,

Not that I know of.
AFAIK is the complete line a Kamakura baby. It is possible that the cheap Bressers are made in (their?) a China plant. Does it say where the Montana is made? Japan or China. According to me, the Montana's were/are made in Japan.

Jan
My info came from USA imports info and Guangzhou Bresser was shown as the shipper of binos to Alpen. Bresser website mentioned their main supplier in the past was a manufacturer in Guangzhou so it seems logical to guess that Guangchou Bresser is the same company but bought by Bresser or at least invested in by Bresser because the China government likes to encourage foreign investment in Chinese Companies and especially in joint ownership co-operations. It would be logical that at least some Bresser binos if not all are made there.

Lee
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