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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

MHG - Beginning or end (1 Viewer)

Get in there Tim. Result, of sorts 8-P

I'm definitely going to follow this. Who knows what will happen?

You're doing fine. :t: :-O
 
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Yes, good luck Tim with your choice and future mobility improvement.

It will be interesting to see what finally gets your approval and why (and maybe even a reveal of your scorned secret bin 8-P).
I imagine there will be several bins that get you thinking when the time comes but for some reason or other there will be a winner or possibly several.

If it makes you go WOW HOLY ETC :-O when you take in the view this is a good sign but try and mentally picture how it will look for where or what and when you will be viewing. I only really get to know my bins once I've taken them on some of the routes that I have known for a long time and have previously viewed with quite a few other bins (it's all relative). I don't think a shop viewing can ever really do this but it's better than nothing and if it's nice to handle then that is another important aspect. It's actually amazing how much there actually is to a relatively simple thing like a binocular.

Of course keep asking here if you have any more queries. You will be much better prepared when you finally get to the checkout panic, overexcitment stimulation, danger zone :-O

Thanks Clive.
Yes, the quid pro quo of not setting an arbitrary price limit is that I expect something to call out. I'll have held at least one variety of each series I'm interested in (of those freely available) before I'm done.
No- shop viewing not best but better than nothing. To be fair I would be coy about handing over hundreds of pounds worth of optics across the counter to an unknown member of the public. It can't be an easy task for retailers and I bet they've all had their fingers burnt by thieves and chancers at one time or another.
I daresay a visit to somewhere like Leica Mayfair may prove instructive for a grotty surf such as myself. Be amazed if I even made it in the store. Ha ha !
Yes , there is a lot to it isn't there? See my exploits today above. This thing is probably going to be with me, at my, hip, for a lot of my waking life. It will need to perform but also be nice to hold and as pleasing to the eye as industrial design permits.
Afraid to say Nikon looses out big time here. The gold on black hasn't dated well. Fine on a 28-200mm f2.8 IFED Nikkor lens. Naff on binoculars. A minor point and barely significant if the MHG's deliver. They can be blue with yellow polker dots at that point (even that would be better than the McLeatherette black plastic-looking barrel mouldings and 80's gold lettering on some Nikon bino kit)

Yes, buyers remorse is a factor too. One starts to measure such aquisitions in terms of air miles to Barbados or portions of a new car and then you've had it right?

Tm
 
I suppose that if there are enough new models left in stock it might be more cost effective to replace one rather than have technicians drop what they are doing and repair the problem.

After they get enough of them to sit down and fix them all they end up on the big internet outlet at discount prices with doubtful warrantys.

Bbo

Ceasar, Troubador,

As has been said, I suppose one should have a reasonable expectation that for the kind of money involved these things just don't go wrong very often if you look after them with respect.

I've read elsewhere that Swarovski's custom service is exceptional even amongst it's peers.

Tm
 
Dear All,

Briefly examined and looked through the following;

Swarovski CL- P 10x25 green
Swarovski CL Companion 10x30 Sandstone/Traveller
Zeiss Conquest HD 10x42 ...er, black !


Thoughts; I wasn't wickedly impressed with the optics of any of them but marginally impressed with all of them, if that makes any sense.

My journey has begun in earnest.

All the best

Tm


Ok this stands out a bit. Doesn't really sound very good.

I've owned a Swaro EL, Leica HD and Zeiss FL (all 32mm) and Nikon LXL 8x20 and they were all good/great but I'm not altogether sure they would stand out optically either against bins such as my base model Kowa 8x32 SV.

I suppose bins make me go wow more nowadays when the light is good and is more dependant on that than the actual bin as long as it's good enough. My Hawke Sapphire 8x43 definitely makes me think wow most often but even my little 8x20's can do too.

It may be that some day you are trying a bin and the light is good and you think oh this bin makes things look great.

I have about 10 bins and I use them all at some stage in rotation and to be honest they all have their merits. They're just different in aspects but they all can provide great viewing even the cheapest but they are all at a standard that I myself set and if some bin doesn't meet the level then I get rid.

We're always chasing this perfect bin or camera lens or whatever but maybe they are all good and it doesn't really matter as long as it's good enough and most bins nowdays are better than good enough.

Just a rambling thought.

Post ramble thought. I suppose you were only dealing with 10x bins and the 8x are the more scenic viewing. Yes forget the 10x next time.
 
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I have about 10 bins and I use them all at some stage in rotation and to be honest they all have their merits. They're just different in aspects but they all can provide great viewing even the cheapest but they are all at a standard that I myself set and if some bin doesn't meet the level then I get rid.

We're always chasing this perfect bin or camera lens or whatever but maybe they are all good and it doesn't really matter as long as it's good enough and most bins nowdays are better than good enough.

Clive

Couldn't agree more. Ask yourself 'which are my best bins?' Answer: the ones you are looking through now.
With an open frame of mind most pairs of bins can give enormous pleasure.

Lee
 
Clive

Couldn't agree more. Ask yourself 'which are my best bins?' Answer: the ones you are looking through now.
With an open frame of mind most pairs of bins can give enormous pleasure.

Lee

Well then, there can only be one conclusion.

Tim is a collector :'D Gasp :eek!:

He bought a big bag to hide them in 3:)
 
Ok this stands out a bit. Doesn't really sound very good.

'The Sandpeople are easily startled, but they'll be back, and in greater numbers.'

'The Moogpeople are not easily impressed, but they'll be back, and for greater durations'

I've owned a Swaro EL, Leica HD and Zeiss FL (all 32mm) and Nikon LXL 8x20 and they were all good/great but I'm not altogether sure they would stand out optically either against bins such as my base model Kowa 8x32 SV.

I suppose bins make me go wow more nowadays when the light is good and is more dependant on that than the actual bin as long as it's good enough. My Hawke Sapphire 8x43 definitely makes me think wow most often but even my little 8x20's can do too.

The, 'Poke the bins out of the shop window and try to evaluate everything in one minute before moving on' method is deeply flawed. No doubt. Darn cheaper than the ,'Buy a pair, buy another pair, then change a parameter either before or after the 'x' then buy again, return, maybe keep, change the other parameter and maybe a manufacturer, price point, buy again ibid.' method although neither as satifying or indeed comprehensive from either a retail therapy perspective nor experience points respectively.

I have a benchmark pair. I have a little lense knowledge. I have some time to play with. I know what criteria I'm looking to meet. I'm getting a pretty good idea of what I can and can't lay my paws on.

I only really want to do this once a decade or so as this is not a GASable hobby for me. The binocular is a vehicle to open up the natural world and the, to use a popular meme, mindfulness that brings. In the last two weeks I've seen and researched birds (none that are rare or exotic) that have charmed me and made me far more grateful for their existence than I have ever consciously been aware of before. I've seen a curious fox saunter round my garden at dusk, a tenacious and industrious squirrel go about it's business, my cats exhibit behaviours never seen as they pad their way about outside.
Today, a bunch of Starlings behave like drunken football (soccer)hooligans at a kebab van. Amazing.

All this with just a bit of patience and a pair of inexpensive binoculars and a bit of bribery in the form of feed.
I just can't lose. Even if I stick with the bins Ive got.
I'm just curious to know if I can, with a bit of effort, maybe enhance that fascination with a one time purchase of some different optics. We'll see.

Yep. Good enough will do just fine. I'm yet to define what my personal good enough is. If I had to buy one of the ones I've looked at so far or stick with what I have I'll save my money and keep looking.....or not. It's not a big deal.

Having my eyes opened to the nature around me?

REALLY ENORMOUS DEAL


It may be that some day you are trying a bin and the light is good and you think oh this bin makes things look great.

That would be nice. Or I get to a point where I can no longer differenciate optical, mechanical or operational quality, get bored and just bust the card out, flip a coin/play eeny meeny miney mo and get done with it.

I have about 10 bins and I use them all at some stage in rotation and to be honest they all have their merits. They're just different in aspects but they all can provide great viewing even the cheapest but they are all at a standard that I myself set and if some bin doesn't meet the level then I get rid.

No more GAS for me. It's one and Im done.

Probably.

We're always chasing this perfect bin or camera lens or whatever but maybe they are all good and it doesn't really matter as long as it's good enough and most bins nowdays are better than good enough.

Quite. See above. There is no perfect anything. I'm not even kidding myself I'm looking for perfect. People aren't perfect and people make stuff ipso facto stuff ain't perfect.... or something like that.

Just a rambling thought.

Ramble away my dear Clive. Ramble away. As long as I see Winter Watch tonight (in which purely on a bingo count Swarovski seems to be the presenters bin of choice to my uneducated eye).

Post ramble thought. I suppose you were only dealing with 10x bins and the 8x are the more scenic viewing. Yes forget the 10x next time.

No choice without opening pristine boxes and I wasn't either in the mood nor had the time on that occasion.

Next time

Tm
 
Just kidding of course Tim but there was a time and it probably still exists that holding two Swaro and a Zeiss I would have been doing a lot of Wowing but as you say if there isn't a view and good light and it's all a bit of a rush hassle then it's not ideal.

Really it probably would need some hours back and forthing with a lot of bins and that's only after you've narrowed things down.

I've idled much time doing such a thing at home over the years (which is another benefit (?) of buying loads of bins 8-P) (well you've got to do something to avoid doing something else) as I'm sure most of the enablers on here -with which you surround yourself- will testify.

God I love a good laugh while typing :-O

I rescued a cat recently (a ginger spotted tabby kitten, looked like an Ocicat, I actually named it Octi before I found this out because I got it on the 1st Oct and thought it looked Ocelot like), and subsequently discovered why it had been abandoned when it decided I was good pray practice and since I had fed it up and it gained it's strength, it became downright dangerous. I lost it again and I'm sure it's happier and it escaped before it's deballing appointment and I'm glad about that but no more cats for moi although I still don't think I could walk away and leave one in distress as it was when I found it in a quarry but I discovered even the rescue organisations don't want them either. It may even turn up again but it had better have improved it's behaviour though I doubt it. I definitely got the impression it was looking for wild adventure. Little bugger.
 

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Just kidding of course Tim but there was a time and it probably still exists that holding two Swaro and a Zeiss I would have been doing a lot of Wowing but as you say if there isn't a view and good light and it's all a bit of a rush hassle then it's not ideal.

Really it probably would need some hours back and forthing with a lot of bins and that's only after you've narrowed things down.

I've idled much time doing such a thing at home over the years (which is another benefit (?) of buying loads of bins 8-P) (well you've got to do something to avoid doing something else) as I'm sure most of the enablers on here -with which you surround yourself- will testify.

God I love a good laugh while typing :-O

I rescued a cat recently (a ginger spotted tabby kitten, looked like an Ocicat, I actually named it Octi before I found this out because I got it on the 1st Oct and thought it looked Ocelot like), and subsequently discovered why it had been abandoned when it decided I was good pray practice and since I had fed it up and it gained it's strength, it became downright dangerous. I lost it again and I'm sure it's happier and it escaped before it's deballing appointment and I'm glad about that but no more cats for moi although I still don't think I could walk away and leave one in distress as it was when I found it in a quarry but I discovered even the rescue organisations don't want them either. It may even turn up again but it had better have improved it's behaviour though I doubt it. I definitely got the impression it was looking for wild adventure. Little bugger.

Enablers - ha ha.
Laughter is a tonic. The best. It all gets a bit too serious sometimes.

Kitty sounds like it's gone ferrel. You did your best Clive. Real beautiful looking cat eh?

Narrowing down. I can't really decide where to carve the cake until I've had a good look at this new Monarch HG.

Purely for the sake of rambling my thinking currently is;

Not a 10x.

ER - it's either ok or it isn't.

With the exception of the MHG and maybe the relatively modest dimensions of any given Leica I'm probably ruling out most 8x42's. A big EL or Victory FL is not really where I'm heading....I think. However, the extra EP at dawn and dusk is a finely balanced thing.

My current kit comes in at around 650g including strap and covers. Weight, to a point, less important than size as a parameter.

FOV - well, anything the same or better than I have is good. The MHG is a bonus there. Zeiss Victory have that one licked bar none if I read the stats. right.

I'm so befuddled by the whole 7x or 8x thing it's driving me nuts. An 8x seems such a stock all rounder but just so many compelling arguments for a 7x.

I'm currently less inclined towards a compact but more so than a big 8x42.

That leaves a 7x or 8x in mid size with the Conquests being an early front runner in an 8.

I'm not wild about open 2 or 3 span bins aesthetically but Leica seem to have pulled it off with the NV and from a more practical, hand holding point of view there is much to credit the format so I believe. It could grow on me.

Build quality, fit and finish and reliability are really important.

Also want to take a cold, deep breath and track back a bit in terms of price point. A good Opticron in the right size,a Monarch 5 (or other Nikon) and a Hawke, maybe Frontier or Sapphire all deserve a really good look at too. They all have much to recommend them.


Tm
 
Enablers - ha ha.
Laughter is a tonic. The best. It all gets a bit too serious sometimes.

Kitty sounds like it's gone ferrel. You did your best Clive. Real beautiful looking cat eh?

Narrowing down. I can't really decide where to carve the cake until I've had a good look at this new Monarch HG.

Purely for the sake of rambling my thinking currently is;

Not a 10x.

ER - it's either ok or it isn't.

With the exception of the MHG and maybe the relatively modest dimensions of any given Leica I'm probably ruling out most 8x42's. A big EL or Victory FL is not really where I'm heading....I think. However, the extra EP at dawn and dusk is a finely balanced thing.

My current kit comes in at around 650g including strap and covers. Weight, to a point, less important than size as a parameter.

FOV - well, anything the same or better than I have is good. The MHG is a bonus there. Zeiss Victory have that one licked bar none if I read the stats. right.

I'm so befuddled by the whole 7x or 8x thing it's driving me nuts. An 8x seems such a stock all rounder but just so many compelling arguments for a 7x.

I'm currently less inclined towards a compact but more so than a big 8x42.

That leaves a 7x or 8x in mid size with the Conquests being an early front runner in an 8.

I'm not wild about open 2 or 3 span bins aesthetically but Leica seem to have pulled it off with the NV and from a more practical, hand holding point of view there is much to credit the format so I believe. It could grow on me.

Build quality, fit and finish and reliability are really important.

Also want to take a cold, deep breath and track back a bit in terms of price point. A good Opticron in the right size,a Monarch 5 (or other Nikon) and a Hawke, maybe Frontier or Sapphire all deserve a really good look at too. They all have much to recommend them.


Tm

Moog:

After reading your posts, I would just go with a dependable binocular
you just mentioned, the Nikon Monarch 5. Great optics, and you will
probably not see any difference with others.

Jerry
 
More rambles.

Well then, there can only be one conclusion.

Tim is a collector :'D Gasp :eek!:

He bought a big bag to hide them in 3:)

Ha ha - with more funds undoubtably. But then probably more classic and mould breaking examples of the form over the last century.

I can't deny some toys are more than the sum of their parts whilst others are just functional.

I thought Swiss movement watches were of the former for a while and then thought better of it. They're still wonderful but compromises must be made and it's a rich persons 'sport.'

Compared to that when £2k prettymuch opens up the whole market of cutting edge binoculars?

I prefer fewer toys in the cupboard nowadays. A good example or two of each is more than enough for one lifetime, if chosen wisely. I like the chase of it but once aquired it's about the ongoing function, utility and yes, to some degree, the sense of being pleasing to the eye and the touch.

I hold a dream of putting all my most trusted and used toys in a rucksack and b@ggering off to prop up a tiki bar somewhere remote and exotic one day. It may never happen but I keep a metaphorically half packed bag in my mind just in case.

I once visited a small island off the coast of Australia where I stayed in a tent on a lovely little site which had it's own outdoor tiki bar, angry belligerent possums, it's own resident Kookaburra that would sit on the end of the bar and take nibbles from ones hand and a tree full of beautiful parakeets that liked honey-dipped bread.

That's what I'm talkin' about!

It's at this time of the year in the northern hemisphere that one tends to dwell on such ideas more frequently eh?

So no big bag and no shelf full of binoculars I'm afraid Clive.

An excellent pair of all-round binoculars that will stand the ravages of time and distance should the bag ever be needed and to while away some peaceful moments immersed in natures' wonder until then.

I just about picked out a Goldfinch at about 150 yards against a dull sky today. My first ! Would I have done so with a 7x? With my eyes at the limit of their resolving capabilities? A top quality 7 perhaps, perhaps not.

The Monarch 5's didn't make it on FOV.

Tm
 
Yes I gave up golf quite a while ago. Birding is much better communing with the universe. Golf is weird but when folks are grinding around in their cars and crap jobs all week then I suppose something artificial like golf is industrial societies way of "being in nature" and getting some exercise. It is a funish game though if you can be bothered.

That dream sounds wonderful. I'm sure we all have them. I know I do for sure.

I've just spent the morning over a coffee fitting a new mainboard to my Revo Super Signal. The sound went due to a leaking electrolyte capacitor and I badgered Revo (out of warranty) to help me out so they sent me a new board to fit myself. I basically scrounged it off them rather than paying the £50 to have them fix it. Actually I only asked them for a photo of a good board so that I could see how to replace the capacitor but they sent me a complete new board instead.

Seems like it contains an updated processor that has realocated functions of the station present buttons but it's all working fine from the remote and otherwise normal again. I'll get onto them. Maybe just needs a different software version.

I believe it my first radio repair attempt so not to bad.

Not sure what this has to do with bins but I thought it interesting anyhow and worthy of a brag. My engineer credentials were somewhat at stake as apparently they are fed up with have a go heroes messing things up but I'm pleased with some of the optical tinkerings I've done also.

If it hadn't worked I was going to send the whole lot to them to fix properly but I don't think I need to do that now so I'm pleased as it's a very good DAB radio. :t:
 
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Clive

Well done on your radio repair.

For an exotic island destination I recommend any island off the west of Scotland. Bliss,

Lee
 
Clive

Well done on your radio repair.

For an exotic island destination I recommend any island off the west of Scotland. Bliss,

Lee

Thanks, I managed to sort the other problem although I have no idea why but anyway, it's singing away beautifully as before or possibly even better.

Obviously I do live on an island off the west coast of Scotland and I wish it were bliss but then London does my head in too. Here I do feel like a bit of a recluse but even here is to crowded with so much constant traffic.

I might go for a cycle later although might need some spiked tyres for the ice!
 
Field of view...but closer

Bit of a newbie question nested within (equally newbie)wider enquiries.

If two given binoculars offer the following different fields of view;

Bin A = 350 ft @ 1000 yards

Bin B = 370 ft @ 1000 yards.

At 1000 yards Bin B has a 20ft wider field of view.

Not much controversy so far I hope.

Because the field of view expands in a cone shape with distance from the objective lenses, thus protecting it's uniform afov expressed in degrees, would it be fair to say the following;

@500 yards

Bin A = 350ft divided by 2 = 175 ft

Bin B = 370ft divided by 2 = 185 ft

A difference of 10 feet

...and should this follow, then;

@250 yards

Bin A = 350 ft divided by 4 = 87.5 ft

Bin B = 370 ft divided by 4 = 92.5 ft

A difference of 5 feet.

I fear I have just revealed either one of the limits of my reasoning, my mathematics, or both.

Should my theory hold, my contention is that at 125 yards (which I reckon from my own experience is personally about as far as I can differenciate one Finch-sized bird from another in the current overcast and grey UK skies using an 8x32 of modest price and quality), Bin A loses out to Bin B by about 2.5 ft, or about the length of a short branch.

One either sees this as a big deal or one doesn't.

All the best Tm.
 
TM

Don't forget that the field of view isn't a straight line at the end of a set distance.

That straight line is the diameter of a circle of view and the bins with a FOV of 350 ft have an area of view at 1,000 yds of 96,223 sq ft. The other bins with 370 ft FOV have an area of view of 107, 535 sq ft or 11.75% more area.

This is not a trivial advantage when you are scanning a big sky for circling hawks or the sea for a re-surfacing diver or otter or seal. And that nearly 12% difference is constant at all distances so gives you a better chance of getting your bins onto a close flying dragonfly or warbler erratically flitting between bushes.

Lee
 
TM

Don't forget that the field of view isn't a straight line at the end of a set distance.

That straight line is the diameter of a circle of view and the bins with a FOV of 350 ft have an area of view at 1,000 yds of 96,223 sq ft. The other bins with 370 ft FOV have an area of view of 107, 535 sq ft or 11.75% more area.

This is not a trivial advantage when you are scanning a big sky for circling hawks or the sea for a re-surfacing diver or otter or seal. And that nearly 12% difference is constant at all distances so gives you a better chance of getting your bins onto a close flying dragonfly or warbler erratically flitting between bushes.

Lee

Thank you Troubador.

That's an excellent point. Far more comprehensive than my simple, if merely illustrative, 'scan-the-line' thinking.

It's a difficult variable to balance against other metrics on paper, as I am currently almost exclusively compelled to do.

Herein lies the limitations of looking at hard metrics as all that matters in a selection process of, well, almost anything. Were such rationale to trump all others then we would all be riding around on Honda C90 scooters and eating protein based porridge gloop !

Such things can help to narrow down a vast field of options and there are some which I have excluded on that basis alone.

You're reply demonstrates the danger of trying to equate simple statistical criteria whilst excluding their real world impact in field conditions.

Another example might be weight. Who says a little more weight is strictly a bad thing in all conditions?

Same with size to an extent and so on.

This is before we even get into 'the intangibles' such as feel, look and ergonomics eh?

I've spent far more time back-tracking threads on here than is probably healthy, chasing various rabbits down various holes in order try and bring some rigour to a subject which is ostensibly straightforward.

Wrong.

I have to accept that whatever way I end up going with this there is undoubtably going to have to be a bit more 'gut instinct' and 'personal taste' as well as a plethora of other unquantifyables in the mix and just accept it as such. It's the same here for everyone, no matter what they profess from time to time.

I'm prettymuch full to the brim with opinion, both mine and others. Some of the rabbit holes are very deep and lead nowhere. Some open into fascinating chasms of reasoned experience having been bogged down in the mire for pages.

What I suppose I'm sort of saying is that opinions are useful to a point and beyond that one must get hands on and having done so, within certain limits, allow oneself to be steered by gut instinct. There's nothing wrong with that- at least to me.

Funny though, perhaps because of my circumstances, I've probably now eclipsed the amount of hours and minutes I put into buying my last car on this topic.

I find some of the hurly burly of these threads also quite entertaining and dare I say it, refreshingly insignificant in the face of what's happening in the real world at the moment. A bit like watching snooker or indoor long mat bowling both of which have recently been on our free to air channels (for our non-uk , cabled-up friends).

Perhaps bird watching per se falls into this catagory too for many of us.

Thanks again for a very helpful reply.

Tm
 
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