50mm Zeiss SF --- When??! (1 Viewer)

Chosun Juan · Mar 28, 2018

etc said:
One item *is* wrong with Leica 10x50 and 8x50 and all other models - their diopters at infinity value is -4D. If you have myopia that exceeds that value and I have -5.25D, I cannot use any Leica devices without corrective devices.

If you have myopia less than -4D, you are OK. But for many, it is a big deal - we have to go to Zeiss/Swarovski to get between 6D and 8D overdrive past infinity. I do not want to use binoculars through eyeglasses, the view is compromised.

I have pretty strong myopia, and have tried several methods of viewing. Ultimately I settled on just leaving my prescription glasses on full time and getting bins to suit. If I try to search for birds just with my eyeballs without glasses, then I am as blind as a bat ! - unable to pick out a falcon gliding across the sky, and thus have no idea where to point the bins.

No matter how much 'nicer' (and I do agree that it tangibly is) the view appears through bins without the extra layers of glass from prescription eyeglasses added to the system, in practice it is just not a logical way to view for me.

The ER of high end bins from Nikon, Swarovski, and Zeiss work well with my glasses, the ones from Leica not so much (I haven't seen the new NV yet).

If long over travel corrections past infinity don't generally exist it must be because their is not much logical call for it - ie. most strongly short sighted people would use their bins as I do.

Chosun :gh:

Chosun Juan · Mar 28, 2018

james holdsworth said:
I thought you loved the one HT you looked through - why not just buy a pair and be happy?

James, I do indeed love the view through the HT. Every time I look through one, that opinion is the same - there are some optical qualities to that view that are unrivaled. There is that wonderful 'clarity' that only a 100% internal reflection A-K, Porro(s), or Perger prism system will provide. I do find that they lack that last bit of micro contrast though - the view seems a little cartoonish to me in comparison to the SV, and the Fov is smack bang average. It's more the chassis package that they come in though ....

I have used them in the field many times (mostly 8x), but every time the conclusion is the same - they just don't work for me ergonomically and are way too heavy for my liking for a 42mm. I guess the ergonomic bar has just been set too high by the Zen ED3's. Tempting, but I want to have my cake and eat it too. I got rid of the 'clarity' of the Swift Audubon 8.5x44 ED, for other reasons too. The weight difference in juxtaposition of a HT to a 660g Nikon MHG is startling.

~850g - That is the sort of weight that a well engineered 50mm SF would come in at. That extra objective size and relatively better ergonomics would make all the difference from 'no go' to 'go' for me.

Chosun :gh:

etc · Mar 28, 2018

Chosun Juan said:
I have pretty strong myopia, and have tried several methods of viewing. Ultimately I settled on just leaving my prescription glasses on full time and getting bins to suit.

Chosun :gh:

Glassing with eyeglasses on is completely unacceptable. Tried it - it doesn't work. I had Leica 8x42BA. There was enough ER but still I did not like something pushed against my expensive Zeiss eyeglasses and also when the eyecups make contact with your face, the image is much cleaner, less compromising.

I can only use Leica with contact lenses. Which work sometimes but can be a pain if you run out during a trip or something. Leica for example is just a deal breaker.

Chosun Juan · Mar 28, 2018

etc said:
Glassing with eyeglasses on is completely unacceptable. Tried it - it doesn't work. I had Leica 8x42BA. There was enough ER but still I did not like something pushed against my expensive Zeiss eyeglasses and also when the eyecups make contact with your face, the image is much cleaner, less compromising.

I can only use Leica with contact lenses. Which work sometimes but can be a pain if you run out during a trip or something. Leica for example is just a deal breaker.

Everyone has to arrive at their own preferred solution. For me that is the eye cups resting lightly on my glasses (glass lenses). I haven't noticed any scratching on the lenses from doing that. It's a compromise I have to live with.

There is no way I could wear contact lenses - ugh! Even the thought of it makes me squirm.

Thanks goodness most binoculars today offer sufficient eye relief. Though I do agree with Binastro's point that a range of extra wide angle (~80° AFov) bins should also be designed by manufacturers with lesser eye relief, purely for those customers (around half the market) that don't wear glasses. With the ubiquity of all sort of mobile screens and their use by all ages from toddlers on though, that could be a shrinking market, as myopia is on the rise worldwide ...... :cat:

Chosun :gh:

Troubador · Mar 28, 2018

etc said:
Glassing with eyeglasses on is completely unacceptable. Tried it - it doesn't work. I had Leica 8x42BA. There was enough ER but still I did not like something pushed against my expensive Zeiss eyeglasses and also when the eyecups make contact with your face, the image is much cleaner, less compromising.

It took me a long time to get used to using binos while wearing spectacles but boy was it worth it. And like you I use Zeiss spectacle lenses and I have never had scratched lenses despite doing this for decades now. Like CJ I need specs on to spot something that I want to glass with the binos and wearing spectacles gives me this capability.

Lee

Gijs van Ginkel · Mar 28, 2018

I heard that HT production is finished, so if it is true one has to be quick to buy one.
Gijs van Ginkel

dries1 · Mar 28, 2018

I heard that HT production is finished, so if it is true one has to be quick to buy one.
Gijs van Ginkel

That was a quick short life.

A.W.

etc · Mar 28, 2018

Chosun Juan said:
There is no way I could wear contact lenses - ugh! Even the thought of it makes me squirm.

Chosun :gh:

A gazillion and 1 people wear soft contact lenses, this is not the 70's anymore. You have daily disposables, weekly, biweekly, etc. They are completely not noticeable. The only problem arises if you have to swim in them, or wash. Supposedly bacteria thrives under them and they can never be exposed to river or ocean water or tap water.

I would prefer soft contacts to eyeglasses 100:1. Why would you wear eyeglasses during sporting or outdoor events when that problem is easily solved with contacts?
I do not like the light gap, I like the eye cups resting on my face completely sealing that gap with no external light to distract me. Plus no issues with eye relief.

And why would you need either glasses or contacts when you can just get a binocular with enough focus past infinity overdrive that accommodates whatever level of myopia you have and use it without any additional tricks, solving the problem.
Provided you have no astigmatism? Which I don't.

Chosun Juan · Mar 28, 2018

etc said:
A gazillion and 1 people wear soft contact lenses, this is not the 70's anymore. You have daily disposables, weekly, biweekly, etc. They are completely not noticeable. The only problem arises if you have to swim in them, or wash. Supposedly bacteria thrives under them and they can never be exposed to river or ocean water or tap water.

I would prefer soft contacts to eyeglasses 100:1. Why would you wear eyeglasses during sporting or outdoor events when that problem is easily solved with contacts?
I do not like the light gap, I like the eye cups resting on my face completely sealing that gap with no external light to distract me. Plus no issues with eye relief.

And why would you need either glasses or contacts when you can just get a binocular with enough focus past infinity overdrive that accommodates whatever level of myopia you have and use it without any additional tricks, solving the problem.
Provided you have no astigmatism? Which I don't.

I'm glad contacts work for you - but I just find the whole idea yukky !

The sport I play is non-contact so that's no issue, and I love swimming at the beach.

I get that the view is a bit better without eyeglasses on - no light gap, and so the view seems a bit brighter, more vivid, and contrasty, and the full field a bit better defined.

Honestly though, I have difficulty seeing eagles fly by without glasses ! :eek!: Even if I know the general direction by the alarm calls of all the birds freaking out, it takes that much searching through the bins, that the moment is easily lost. Especially on fast flying falcons etc.

Eyeglasses on is just what works for me ...... :cat:

Chosun :gh:

Alexis Powell · Mar 29, 2018

I have astigmatism and superb corrected vision with glasses, which contacts can't match. I also do a lot of birding that is very fast paced and involves lots of quick switches back and forth between eyes and bins, so removing glasses is too slow and cumbersome. Consequently, I always use glasses when viewing w/ bins. I always wear a wide brimmed hat when outdoors (something I've always done, long before I began wearing glasses) and I find that I rarely have trouble with lateral light. I've done plenty of viewing w/o glasses and I don't find it superior under most conditions. In fact, glasses allow for a superior view when using pocket bins because alignment to the pupils is easier to maintain and the little eyecups don't press against one's eyes. I prefer sturdy, rigid, double-bridge frames that don't distort when my bins are firmly pressed against them. I also prefer glass lenses, which are highly scratch resistant.

--AP

dries1 · Mar 29, 2018

Chosen,

Careful of swimming at early morning or early evening, prime feeding time in those waters.

A.W.

BruceH · Mar 29, 2018

dries1 said:
Chosen,

Careful of swimming at early morning or early evening, prime feeding time in those waters.

A.W.

I'd put my money on CJ! :t:

Chosun Juan · Mar 29, 2018

BruceH said:
I'd put my money on CJ! :t:

Haha ! :-O I don't know about that ...... I'm no Mick Fanning !

3

I steer clear of early mornings, late afternoons, high tides, rips, bait fish migrations, murky water, being the furtherest out, and especially beaches adjoining river mouths ..........

Chosun :gh:

dries1 · Mar 29, 2018

Swimming

Chosen, you are all over it. Boom.

That head looks like a mature one, too clean cut to be his older brother or uncle having a snack. I kept the pic. Here the rivers are more of a risk near the confluence of the bays and ocean, with the bulls around.

Andy W.

Chosun Juan said:
Haha ! :-O I don't know about that ...... I'm no Mick Fanning ! 3

I steer clear of early mornings, late afternoons, high tides, rips, bait fish migrations, murky water, being the furtherest out, and especially beaches adjoining river mouths ..........

View attachment 657571

Chosun :gh:

Patudo · Mar 30, 2018

etc said:
A gazillion and 1 people wear soft contact lenses, this is not the 70's anymore. You have daily disposables, weekly, biweekly, etc. They are completely not noticeable. The only problem arises if you have to swim in them, or wash. Supposedly bacteria thrives under them and they can never be exposed to river or ocean water or tap water.

I would prefer soft contacts to eyeglasses 100:1. Why would you wear eyeglasses during sporting or outdoor events when that problem is easily solved with contacts?
I do not like the light gap, I like the eye cups resting on my face completely sealing that gap with no external light to distract me. Plus no issues with eye relief.

And why would you need either glasses or contacts when you can just get a binocular with enough focus past infinity overdrive that accommodates whatever level of myopia you have and use it without any additional tricks, solving the problem.
Provided you have no astigmatism? Which I don't.

I can't tolerate the feel of anything on my eyeballs, but if I could, I know I'd enjoy using some of my older binoculars which have short eye relief a whole lot more. The biggest problem with them is that fast-moving targets can be lost even during the few moments it takes to whip off your glasses (I got quite practiced doing that) and put your binoculars to your eyes. If you're not dealing with such situations, a short eye relief binocular does become a lot more practical.

I too much prefer the view you get without glasses, but have enough myopia that focus past infinity can be an issue: I can't get the Nikon 8x30 EII (for instance) and some others to focus sufficiently past infinity for me to use it without glasses. The reality is that most binoculars today are intended to be used with glasses and not many have enough focus beyond infinity to accomodate the severely myopic. One that seems to be able to is the Swarovski 8.5x42 Field Pro which my brother, whose prescription is (I believe) -8.5, is able to use without glasses (although he prefers to observe with glasses).

I use rimless glasses that are quite close to my eyes to minimize the light gap - the view using these is still not as good as with the binocular directly to my eyes, but it is acceptable. When it's very sunny I also often wear a hat for the same reasons Alexis describes in post #90. I'd recommend giving both these a try, but if nothing other than using your binoculars direct to your eyes will do, you may have to get the binocular adjusted - losing some close focus distance in order to increase focus beyond infinity. The manufacturer may be able to do this for you if you give them sufficent time - if you are acquiring a second-hand unit a good optical repair service should be able to do the same for you, or you may be able to send them to the manufacturer and have them do the adjustment (but this type of work would almost certainly have to be paid for).

etc · Mar 30, 2018

Patudo said:
I can't tolerate the feel of anything on my eyeballs, but if I could, I know I'd enjoy using some of my older binoculars which have short eye relief a whole lot more. The biggest problem with them is that fast-moving targets can be lost even during the few moments it takes to whip off your glasses (I got quite practiced doing that) and put your binoculars to your eyes. If you're not dealing with such situations, a short eye relief binocular does become a lot more practical.

I too much prefer the view you get without glasses, but have enough myopia that focus past infinity can be an issue: I can't get the Nikon 8x30 EII (for instance) and some others to focus sufficiently past infinity for me to use it without glasses. The reality is that most binoculars today are intended to be used with glasses and not many have enough focus beyond infinity to accomodate the severely myopic. One that seems to be able to is the Swarovski 8.5x42 Field Pro which my brother, whose prescription is (I believe) -8.5, is able to use without glasses (although he prefers to observe with glasses).

I use rimless glasses that are quite close to my eyes to minimize the light gap - the view using these is still not as good as with the binocular directly to my eyes, but it is acceptable. When it's very sunny I also often wear a hat for the same reasons Alexis describes in post #90. I'd recommend giving both these a try, but if nothing other than using your binoculars direct to your eyes will do, you may have to get the binocular adjusted - losing some close focus distance in order to increase focus beyond infinity. The manufacturer may be able to do this for you if you give them sufficent time - if you are acquiring a second-hand unit a good optical repair service should be able to do the same for you, or you may be able to send them to the manufacturer and have them do the adjustment (but this type of work would almost certainly have to be paid for).

I am not sure what the "Field Pro" package is, it appears just a different way of attaching the strap to it without being internally different whatsoever from the stock EL.

In any case, the diopter value at infinity is -6 diopters, just like in the regular EL 8.5x42. I know this is correct since I have -5.5 Diopters and when rolling the focus all the way to the right, I have what seems like a millimeter left.

Interestingly and just FYI, the 10x42 EL has a full -8 Diopters at infinity value. If you are above 6D, this is important. If my vision gets any worse, I will have to upgrade from 8.5x42 EL to 10x42 EL , though at this point I am mostly interested in Zeiss.

I much prefer to have the binos correct the vision for me, versus eyeglasses. There is just no need for eyeglasses when you two fabulous options available: (1) use contact lenses - you should try the daily ones, they are completely transparent, this is not the 70's or the 90's anymore, and cheap or (2) don't use anything and let binos correct it for you. I have no astigmatism, have identical myopia and thus EL 8.5x42 works well for me. If you have either astigmatism, this won't work and if you have different diopter values, this won't work either - very well. You can set the diopter wheel to whatever value but then once you put on eyeglasses or contacts, you will have to reset the wheel back to zero - not convenient.
Anyway, if I am wearing eyeglasses, I take them off, if I am wearing contacts, I don't adjust the focus all the way to infinity and that works very well either.

Optically, my favorite has been Leica in the 8x42 configuration but they are unable to update the D at infinity value beyond -4, which is inexplicable and inadequate. I could only use them with eyewear and their ER was not that great. Swaro is barely enough but I think my next device will be by Zeiss more likely 8x42 SF. Would be great to find out what their precise value is of D at infinity. I've also come to realize I cannot handle more than 8 to 8.5 power comfortably, so if they do come out with 50mm lenses, I will likely stick either with 8x42 or even 8x50, both great options.

perterra · Mar 31, 2018

etc said:
I am not sure what the "Field Pro" package is, it appears just a different way of attaching the strap to it without being internally different whatsoever from the stock EL.

In any case, the diopter value at infinity is -6 diopters, just like in the regular EL 8.5x42. I know this is correct since I have -5.5 Diopters and when rolling the focus all the way to the right, I have what seems like a millimeter left.

Interestingly and just FYI, the 10x42 EL has a full -8 Diopters at infinity value. If you are above 6D, this is important. If my vision gets any worse, I will have to upgrade from 8.5x42 EL to 10x42 EL , though at this point I am mostly interested in Zeiss.

I much prefer to have the binos correct the vision for me, versus eyeglasses. There is just no need for eyeglasses when you two fabulous options available: (1) use contact lenses - you should try the daily ones, they are completely transparent, this is not the 70's or the 90's anymore, and cheap or (2) don't use anything and let binos correct it for you. I have no astigmatism, have identical myopia and thus EL 8.5x42 works well for me. If you have either astigmatism, this won't work and if you have different diopter values, this won't work either - very well. You can set the diopter wheel to whatever value but then once you put on eyeglasses or contacts, you will have to reset the wheel back to zero - not convenient.
Anyway, if I am wearing eyeglasses, I take them off, if I am wearing contacts, I don't adjust the focus all the way to infinity and that works very well either.

Optically, my favorite has been Leica in the 8x42 configuration but they are unable to update the D at infinity value beyond -4, which is inexplicable and inadequate. I could only use them with eyewear and their ER was not that great. Swaro is barely enough but I think my next device will be by Zeiss more likely 8x42 SF. Would be great to find out what their precise value is of D at infinity. I've also come to realize I cannot handle more than 8 to 8.5 power comfortably, so if they do come out with 50mm lenses, I will likely stick either with 8x42 or even 8x50, both great options.

You a contact lens salesman?

I dont care for them, the times I tried it was more trouble than it was worth in my work environment.

50mm Zeiss SF --- When??! (1 Viewer)

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Chosun Juan

Given to Fly

Chosun Juan

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etc

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Chosun Juan

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Troubador

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Gijs van Ginkel

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dries1

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etc

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Chosun Juan

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Alexis Powell

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BruceH

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Chosun Juan

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Patudo

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etc

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perterra

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