Join for FREE
It only takes a minute!
Magnifying the passion for nature. Zeiss Victory Harpia 95. New!

Welcome to BirdForum.
BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE! You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

Big Gulls in Taiwan

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old Monday 27th February 2017, 14:14   #51
SteveMM
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Tainan, Taiwan
Posts: 355
The gorgeous big first-winter Common Gull also put in an appearance, but I never managed to get it at the right kind of angle, despite it coming much closer. It was joined by an adult when it moved offshore, but too far away to do much with.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Common Gull (01) - Copy.jpg
Views:	87
Size:	96.6 KB
ID:	616755  Click image for larger version

Name:	Common Gull (02) - Copy.jpg
Views:	84
Size:	92.0 KB
ID:	616756  Click image for larger version

Name:	Common Gull (03) - Copy.jpg
Views:	82
Size:	129.8 KB
ID:	616757  
SteveMM is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 27th February 2017, 14:31   #52
SteveMM
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Tainan, Taiwan
Posts: 355
I was so occupied with trying to get better shots of the Common Gull that I almost missed the 'oddball' when it turned up. In fact, I only picked it out in my 'bins when it was feeding against the sun and the wingtip pattern was just striking! Fortunatley, I had (unwittingly) managed to get some shots of it when all the gulls were nearer. What, exactly, do you make of this?

(I have posted blow-ups of this bird here: http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=340337. It is clearly paler than any of the taimyrensis it is with, slightly smaller, and with shorter arm and proportonally broader wing. It had a fish in its throat for all the time it was flying around, making its throat bulge.)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Unknown Gull (01) - Copy.jpg
Views:	106
Size:	114.9 KB
ID:	616759  Click image for larger version

Name:	Unknown Gull (04) - Copy.jpg
Views:	85
Size:	125.9 KB
ID:	616760  Click image for larger version

Name:	Unknown Gull (09) - Copy.jpg
Views:	95
Size:	141.4 KB
ID:	616761  Click image for larger version

Name:	Unknown Gull (13) - Copy.jpg
Views:	94
Size:	171.4 KB
ID:	616762  
SteveMM is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 27th February 2017, 14:39   #53
SteveMM
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Tainan, Taiwan
Posts: 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by balex78 View Post
Thanks for keeping this post updated day by day, with news pics.
They are very useful!

Keep it going Steve! Especially wirh pics about immature taymirensis, mongolicus and vegae

I linked this post on The "Western Palearctic Gulls Group" on Facebook!
Thanks again for the comments. I can supplement this thread with photos from the same time last year if sandbar birds fail to show. I'll take a look at the birds you link to, but the poster seems to like to put a lot of individuals on in one go, making it quite a lot to chew on!
SteveMM is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 27th February 2017, 14:43   #54
SteveMM
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Tainan, Taiwan
Posts: 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by JANJ View Post
Agree that 'taimyrensis' type is best here for the reasons made!

JanJ
Thanks, Jan.

First-winters of taimyrensis seem to be able to resemble anything from a juvenile to a second-winter, all at the same time of year. As if these birds weren't difficult enough!
SteveMM is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 28th February 2017, 12:02   #55
SteveMM
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Tainan, Taiwan
Posts: 355
A disappointing way to end the bank holiday here today back at my small harbour. The bird with the thayeri wingtip failed to show, and it was hot and sunny to boot making photography difficult. Best bird was the by now familiar Common Gull, so yet more pictures of that to start with. (Common Gull is far from common here; if I see more than two a year then I've having a very good year for Common Gull!)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Common Gull (02) - Copy.jpg
Views:	85
Size:	103.2 KB
ID:	616892  Click image for larger version

Name:	Common Gull (03) - Copy.jpg
Views:	84
Size:	104.3 KB
ID:	616893  Click image for larger version

Name:	Common Gull (04) - Copy.jpg
Views:	77
Size:	82.9 KB
ID:	616894  Click image for larger version

Name:	Common Gull (01) - Copy.jpg
Views:	85
Size:	142.7 KB
ID:	616895  
SteveMM is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 28th February 2017, 12:05   #56
SteveMM
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Tainan, Taiwan
Posts: 355
Black-tailed Gulls of various ages flapping around, too, though still not very many (less than a dozen all afternoon).
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Black-tailed Gull (01) - Copy.jpg
Views:	83
Size:	109.0 KB
ID:	616899  Click image for larger version

Name:	Black-tailed Gull (04) - Copy.jpg
Views:	79
Size:	144.4 KB
ID:	616900  Click image for larger version

Name:	Black-tailed Gull (03) - Copy.jpg
Views:	66
Size:	124.5 KB
ID:	616901  Click image for larger version

Name:	Black-tailed Gull (02) - Copy.jpg
Views:	68
Size:	85.9 KB
ID:	616902  
SteveMM is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 28th February 2017, 12:13   #57
SteveMM
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Tainan, Taiwan
Posts: 355
Once more taimyrensis the most frequent big gull to show up (though still only about a dozen or so). Below are two first-winters, a second-winter, and a third-winter. Hazy today, so poorer photos, but I do feel to be getting the hang of these birds now!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Heuglin's Gull (05) - Copy.jpg
Views:	97
Size:	120.9 KB
ID:	616903  Click image for larger version

Name:	Heuglin's Gull (04) - Copy.jpg
Views:	89
Size:	113.0 KB
ID:	616904  Click image for larger version

Name:	Heuglin's Gull (01) - Copy.jpg
Views:	76
Size:	116.8 KB
ID:	616905  Click image for larger version

Name:	Heuglin's Gull (09) - Copy.jpg
Views:	85
Size:	99.7 KB
ID:	616906  
SteveMM is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 28th February 2017, 12:19   #58
SteveMM
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Tainan, Taiwan
Posts: 355
Adult taimyrensis outnumber the immatures by a significant amount, making adult taimyrensis the most commonly encountered 'gull' in Taiwan. The majority now have finished their primary moults, though it is still possible to find a few late ones.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Heuglin's Gull (08) - Copy.jpg
Views:	80
Size:	107.7 KB
ID:	616907  Click image for larger version

Name:	Heuglin's Gull (07) - Copy.jpg
Views:	83
Size:	112.5 KB
ID:	616908  Click image for larger version

Name:	Heuglin's Gull (10) - Copy.jpg
Views:	82
Size:	95.2 KB
ID:	616909  
SteveMM is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 28th February 2017, 12:23   #59
balex78
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Italy
Posts: 332
I think first winter it's the correct age for first bird. Moult on coverts is very fast, as in heuglini . Pretty much typical of these two subspecies

As for the adult ones, the p10 tongue of last one is too long for a pure taimyrensis, in my opinion. It's longer than half the feather and rectangular ending, maybe a few cachinnans/barabensis genes in it? ;-)

My comments refer to Yesterday posts at 15:56 and 16:02

Last edited by balex78 : Tuesday 28th February 2017 at 12:25.
balex78 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 28th February 2017, 12:26   #60
SteveMM
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Tainan, Taiwan
Posts: 355
As they have a marked preference for freshwater in winter here, mongolicus do not often stray into coastal harbours. Today's adult just popped in for a look-see on its way elsewhere. Such a lovely gull at this time of year - crisply marked, soft looking, and with the beady eye somehow accentuating its overall attractiveness.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Mongolian Gull (01) - Copy.jpg
Views:	78
Size:	89.5 KB
ID:	616910  Click image for larger version

Name:	Mongolian Gull (02) - Copy.jpg
Views:	80
Size:	88.8 KB
ID:	616911  Click image for larger version

Name:	Mongolian Gull (03) - Copy.jpg
Views:	87
Size:	123.2 KB
ID:	616912  
SteveMM is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 28th February 2017, 12:40   #61
SteveMM
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Tainan, Taiwan
Posts: 355
Today's only surprise (and a taxon I've seen far too few of so far this winter) was a third-winter vegae. No attractiveness anywhere on this bird, just a grubby-looking head and an experession of pure menace. Fantastic! I've aged this one primarily by the tail band, which should be full on second-winters (only a trace on this one). It gets ID'd primarily by the extensive streaking and blotching on its head, but also by the pale saddle.

Attached: Third-winter vegae (ID'd by extensive dark head markings, pale saddle, traces of tail band).
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Vega Gull (01) - Copy.jpg
Views:	86
Size:	114.4 KB
ID:	616913  Click image for larger version

Name:	Vega Gull (04) - Copy.jpg
Views:	83
Size:	110.2 KB
ID:	616914  Click image for larger version

Name:	Vega Gull (02) - Copy.jpg
Views:	82
Size:	100.7 KB
ID:	616915  Click image for larger version

Name:	Vega Gull (03) - Copy.jpg
Views:	73
Size:	122.1 KB
ID:	616916  
SteveMM is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 28th February 2017, 12:49   #62
balex78
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Italy
Posts: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMM View Post
The gorgeous big first-winter Common Gull also put in an appearance, but I never managed to get it at the right kind of angle, despite it coming much closer. It was joined by an adult when it moved offshore, but too far away to do much with.
This one is a Kamtchatka Gull
balex78 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 28th February 2017, 12:49   #63
balex78
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Italy
Posts: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMM View Post
I was so occupied with trying to get better shots of the Common Gull that I almost missed the 'oddball' when it turned up. In fact, I only picked it out in my 'bins when it was feeding against the sun and the wingtip pattern was just striking! Fortunatley, I had (unwittingly) managed to get some shots of it when all the gulls were nearer. What, exactly, do you make of this?

(I have posted blow-ups of this bird here: http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=340337. It is clearly paler than any of the taimyrensis it is with, slightly smaller, and with shorter arm and proportonally broader wing. It had a fish in its throat for all the time it was flying around, making its throat bulge.)

This one could be a Thayer's Gull
balex78 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 28th February 2017, 12:50   #64
balex78
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Italy
Posts: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMM View Post
A disappointing way to end the bank holiday here today back at my small harbour. The bird with the thayeri wingtip failed to show, and it was hot and sunny to boot making photography difficult. Best bird was the by now familiar Common Gull, so yet more pictures of that to start with. (Common Gull is far from common here; if I see more than two a year then I've having a very good year for Common Gull!)

Kamtchatka Gull
balex78 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 28th February 2017, 12:54   #65
SteveMM
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Tainan, Taiwan
Posts: 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by balex78 View Post
I think first winter it's the correct age for first bird. Moult on coverts is very fast, as in heuglini . Pretty much typical of these two subspecies

As for the adult ones, the p10 tongue of last one is too long for a pure taimyrensis, in my opinion. It's longer than half the feather and rectangular ending, maybe a few cachinnans/barabensis genes in it? ;-)

My comments refer to Yesterday posts at 15:56 and 16:02
Thanks again for your comments!

I'm quite sure now that these are first-winters (e.g. #49). I think that active replacement of mantle and coverts with adult-like feathers is a very useful field mark for identification of taimyrensis (with mongolicus worn and vegae not replacing anything).

As regards barabensis, I have read somewhere (it must be in Malling Olsen and Larsson) that this may well just be some kind of 'southern' taimyrensis. This kind of makes sense to me.
SteveMM is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 28th February 2017, 13:47   #66
balex78
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Italy
Posts: 332
barabensis is quite different from taimyrensis, I'm not sure this can be considered its Southern counterpart ;-)
balex78 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 1st March 2017, 00:10   #67
SteveMM
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Tainan, Taiwan
Posts: 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by balex78 View Post
barabensis is quite different from taimyrensis, I'm not sure this can be considered its Southern counterpart ;-)
Must have 'mis-remembered' that from somewhere, then!
SteveMM is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 1st March 2017, 10:27   #68
Mark Newsome
Born to seawatch...
 
Mark Newsome's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: County Durham
Posts: 1,834
Sorry to maybe jump in at the wrong place, but seeing your excellent instructive images of mongolicus and taimyrensis made me think of an unidentified LWHG in Goa recently. How does the attached compare with birds you're seeing in Taiwan? (photo taken 05.12.15 at Morjim, N.Goa by Mandar Bhagat. Only this one shot available.) The standard large gulls here are barabensis and heuglini, but this isn't fitting in with either.

Mark
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	LWHG Morjim 0151215 M Bhagat.jpg
Views:	108
Size:	271.8 KB
ID:	617047  
Mark Newsome is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 1st March 2017, 12:47   #69
SteveMM
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Tainan, Taiwan
Posts: 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Newsome View Post
Sorry to maybe jump in at the wrong place, but seeing your excellent instructive images of mongolicus and taimyrensis made me think of an unidentified LWHG in Goa recently. How does the attached compare with birds you're seeing in Taiwan? (photo taken 05.12.15 at Morjim, N.Goa by Mandar Bhagat. Only this one shot available.) The standard large gulls here are barabensis and heuglini, but this isn't fitting in with either.

Mark
Hi Mark,

Feel free to jump in anywhere! If I saw that here in December I would call it taimyrensis without a second thought (in spite of the white head).

Things that look better for that form to my eye would be: small head on a very long neck, long legs, pale eye, and incomplete primary moult. I'm not the best at judging these things (and always look forward to corrections), but isn't P10 old-looking and not yet dropped (and contrasting with the newer primaries with the nice big apical spots)? In Taiwan at least, mongolicus has completed its primary moult by December (and, rightly or wrongly, I expect this should be true of all of the 'southern' taxa), whereas taimyrensis invariably still has quite some way to go.

Last edited by SteveMM : Wednesday 1st March 2017 at 12:52.
SteveMM is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 2nd March 2017, 09:14   #70
balex78
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Italy
Posts: 332
I think this pic has been taken in May, with primaries moulted up to p7 and p10 still old. Is that correct?
If so, this looks ok for a Steppe Gull
balex78 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 2nd March 2017, 12:13   #71
Mark Newsome
Born to seawatch...
 
Mark Newsome's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: County Durham
Posts: 1,834
Quote:
Originally Posted by balex78 View Post
I think this pic has been taken in May, with primaries moulted up to p7 and p10 still old. Is that correct?
If so, this looks ok for a Steppe Gull
No, the photo was definitely taken 5 December. Naming convention for dates can be taken either way!
taimyrensis has often been quoted as occurring in this area, but I've never seen any photos that look other than subtle shades of heuglini. There was some thought of mongolicus for this bird, but seeing the images on here, that doesn't look likely.
Thanks for the input and discussion.

Mark
Mark Newsome is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 3rd March 2017, 13:43   #72
SteveMM
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Tainan, Taiwan
Posts: 355
Just to ensure that anyone following this thread leaves it completely sick of taimyrensis gulls, here's a whole load more taken today.

Features common to adults now are mid-dark grey upperparts, bright bare parts, pale eyes, single medium-sized mirror P10 (with or without smaller mirror P9), greyish 'hand' from below (contrasting with white coverts), and underside of P10 with short diagonal tongue.

The first birds below still have traces of winter head streaking.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Heuglin's Gull (01) - Copy.jpg
Views:	80
Size:	101.4 KB
ID:	617274  Click image for larger version

Name:	Heuglin's Gull (02) - Copy.jpg
Views:	77
Size:	102.3 KB
ID:	617275  Click image for larger version

Name:	Heuglin's Gull (07) - Copy.jpg
Views:	73
Size:	101.8 KB
ID:	617276  Click image for larger version

Name:	Heuglin's Gull (08) - Copy.jpg
Views:	76
Size:	97.4 KB
ID:	617277  
SteveMM is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 3rd March 2017, 13:47   #73
SteveMM
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Tainan, Taiwan
Posts: 355
These next two have much whiter heads. Black bill markings in adults seems to be a pretty common feature in taimyrensis. The second bird has a more rectangular-shaped tongue, which is interesting!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Heuglin's Gull (03) - Copy.jpg
Views:	75
Size:	106.7 KB
ID:	617278  Click image for larger version

Name:	Heuglin's Gull (04) - Copy.jpg
Views:	76
Size:	110.4 KB
ID:	617279  Click image for larger version

Name:	Heuglin's Gull (05) - Copy.jpg
Views:	116
Size:	89.3 KB
ID:	617280  Click image for larger version

Name:	Heuglin's Gull (06) - Copy.jpg
Views:	72
Size:	122.2 KB
ID:	617281  
SteveMM is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 3rd March 2017, 13:52   #74
SteveMM
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Tainan, Taiwan
Posts: 355
The next two include a very 'pale-end' individual, but the distribution of head streaking, single mirror, grey under-secondaries, and P10 tongue best fit taimyrensis.

The second bird is a first-winter, which I'm a lot more comfortable with IDing right now!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Heuglin's Gull (09) - Copy.jpg
Views:	78
Size:	91.4 KB
ID:	617283  Click image for larger version

Name:	Heuglin's Gull (10) - Copy.jpg
Views:	75
Size:	89.1 KB
ID:	617285  Click image for larger version

Name:	Heuglin's Gull (11) - Copy.jpg
Views:	66
Size:	109.0 KB
ID:	617286  Click image for larger version

Name:	Heuglin's Gull (12) - Copy.jpg
Views:	70
Size:	112.2 KB
ID:	617287  
SteveMM is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 3rd March 2017, 14:02   #75
SteveMM
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Tainan, Taiwan
Posts: 355
The last bird here is more odd as it has a very long tongue down the underside of P10. It also looks rather more 'compact' around its head for some reason, but all other plumage features fit taimyrensis better than anything else.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Heuglin's Gull (Odd) (01) - Copy.jpg
Views:	82
Size:	105.3 KB
ID:	617288  Click image for larger version

Name:	Heuglin's Gull (Odd) (02) - Copy.jpg
Views:	76
Size:	105.6 KB
ID:	617289  Click image for larger version

Name:	Heuglin's Gull (Odd) (03) - Copy.jpg
Views:	73
Size:	103.6 KB
ID:	617290  
SteveMM is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Reply


Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Gulls, gulls, gulls. Blashford lakes, UK. Retrodaz Bird Identification Q&A 1 Monday 31st August 2015 19:20
taiwan birding tour from taiwan trippiersuk Information Wanted 1 Thursday 9th April 2015 12:26
Gulls & tern ID ? Taiwan Meerkat Bird Identification Q&A 4 Sunday 15th December 2013 13:57
The gulls at Kniffiss Lagoon (Morocco) are not all Kelp Gulls as presumed before Acrocephalus Gulls 17 Wednesday 20th July 2011 10:16
Gulls, gulls, gulls... Maine coast hbreder Bird Identification Q&A 17 Sunday 7th October 2007 05:26



Fatbirder's Top 1000 Birding Websites

Help support BirdForum

Page generated in 0.22324610 seconds with 36 queries
All times are GMT. The time now is 23:21.