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Marsh Tit or Willow Tit, Eifel, Germany (1 Viewer)

NicoleB

NicoleB

Nature addict
Hi folks,

have seen this fellow yesterday and am not able to tell which one of the above it is.
Maybe you can?

Thanks & B :)
Nicole
 

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Marsh tit. Just to note, the pale secondary panel and glossy cap are no longer considered to be "good" id criteria for separating Marsh and Willow tits. A recent paper (and article in birdwatch) found that upto 40% marsh can show secondary panel, whilst the glossyness of the cap can only be described as perceptive, as light conditions can play a huge part in the amount of light reflected off the crown.The pale spot on the upper mandible (shown only by Marsh) and the call are the only decent features.
Cheers
Daniel
 
Thanks, Daniel!

I was searching for the translation for manable, but couldn't come up with anything birding related ;-)

Thanks for the explanation too. Both would have been new birds for me, so, except for the commonly found explanations I am pretty clueless.

Glad you could ID him from the pics :)
 
Well, your spelling and my brain are on vacation, I guess :)

Yup, I almost disregarded them as coal tits. But something made me stop and snap a few pics :)
 
I've never seen a Marsh Tit looking this Dusky underneath..(would have expected palustris to be paler than dresseri?) nor with such a distended nape! (as shown in image 2), also the apparant white spot on the bill (image 1) appears to be on the lower mandible?

cheers
 
KenM said:
I've never seen a Marsh Tit looking this Dusky underneath..(would have expected palustris to be paler than dresseri?) nor with such a distended nape! (as shown in image 2), also the apparant white spot on the bill (image 1) appears to be on the lower mandible?

cheers
Click to expand...

you mean you've never seen such a dark photo ;) and the pale spot is on the upper mandible, follow the gape line into the bird's head.
 
nickderry said:
you mean you've never seen such a dark photo ;) and the pale spot is on the upper mandible, follow the gape line into the bird's head.
Click to expand...

Nick..I think the requisite ''obligatory'' upper mandible white spot... is borderline to this ID, and should not ''overshadow'' the apparant cosmetic discrepancy ;)
 
extract from paper "both species
displayed pale cutting edges to the lower
mandible, but 97% of Marsh Tits showed a pale
mark on the upper mandible, on the bill sides
below the nostril, which was lacking on 96% ofWillow Tits (fig. 3). This characteristic mark appears to be the single most reliable and objective physical feature for separating Marsh Tits and Willow Tits, although it may be very difficult to see in the field."
 
dwatsonbirder said:
extract from paper "both species
displayed pale cutting edges to the lower
mandible, but 97% of Marsh Tits showed a pale
mark on the upper mandible, on the bill sides
below the nostril, which was lacking on 96% ofWillow Tits (fig. 3). This characteristic mark appears to be the single most reliable and objective physical feature for separating Marsh Tits and Willow Tits, although it may be very difficult to see in the field."
Click to expand...

but also in strong sunlight you can get reflection which makes this feature not always reliable

Andy
 
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