Vortex Viper UHD beats Zeiss SF and Leica Noctivid! (1 Viewer)

[email protected] said:

If you drop them in the river accidentally that is not deliberate. Now if you throw them in the river that is deliberate.

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They should be able to survive a dunking.

I recall reading an article written by Terry Wieland in "Gray's Best" magazine about testing hunting binoculars for waterproofing in Alaska. He was the magazine's Shooting Editor.

He would tie a 10 foot or so cord to the binocular. Then he would walk out on a dock; tie the end of the cord to a pillar and drop the binocular into the water. The next morning he would pull it up and if it was still working and its insides were free of water it passed the test.

Bob

[email protected] said:

Good comments, Steve. The focus is pretty stiff but I think it will loosen up with use as you say. Mine is already loosening up. I think focus speed can be personal preference with some people preferring slower focusers so you don't overshoot like you can with some extremely fast focusers. The tightness and speed of the focuser could be that the UHD is targeted more at hunter's than birder's and many hunter's prefer a tighter, slower focuser because they are glassing large areas at long distance where they don't change focus often and they don't want their focuser to be moving too easily. The good thing it is very smooth with no slack or play. Having three Habicht's this focuser doesn't seem stiff at all! I agree that their should be a little more extension in the eye cups. They are a little short and it could be a problem for some people. Do the Maven B2's have as sharp of edges as the UHD? It has been awhile since I looked through a Maven but I was impressed with the big sweet spot and sharp edges of the UHD being almost SV sharp. The UHD do seem large at first but like you say when you use them you quickly forget their size because of their excellent balance. You are correct in that there are a lot of similarities to the Maven but the problem is that Maven does not have an 8x42 with anything near the 420 foot FOV of the UHD and that for me is the deal killer. That surprises me because 8x42 is the most popular birding binocular size. The 9x45 B2 is nice but I prefer the much larger FOV of the UHD 8x42 and all the advantages that go with 8x including DOF and the steadier view. Even the 7x45 B2 Maven has a very tunnel like 388 foot FOV for a 7x. I think for an all around binocular 8x42 is hard to beat and Maven should make an 8x42 with at least a 400 foot FOV to compete with the Zeiss SF, Swarovski SV and the Noctivid. You can get the Vortex Razor UHD 8x42 for $1250.00 at Sport Optics which makes it pretty competitive at it's price point.

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OK, a couple of things here, I quoted your post so I could keep things in order. The edges of the UHD and the Maven are equally sharp.

You are right about focus speed being pretty personal. However I believe 90% of serious birders would have serious issues with the excruciatingly slow, stiff movement of the UHD 10x42 focuser I had in my hands. Even if the stiffness wears off, the travel is too slow.

As for the fov, you illustrate a pet peeve of mine. This is called specification anxiety. You are far from alone here (it may well be that I am the one who is alone here), and I don't mean to single you out. People place far too much faith in the specification sheets. For one thing they are wrong more often than they are right. It should not be that way but it is. Website people are not optics people and vice versa. East is East and West is West as the saying goes. I have posted this I don't know how many times and have chewed Maven's ear multiple times, but the Maven fov is seriously understated. Aside from that, Maven has one of the better spec sheets to be had. For brevity I will use the SImple, Logical, Old Fashioned, Way (SLOW) for the afov, actual field degrees by magnification. The afov of an 8* 8x binocular is 64*. Maven's B 2 is a measured 405', for an afov of 70*, which is neck and neck with the SF 8x42.. Hand any two people an 8* 8x and a 9x45 Maven and the Maven appears wider, noticeably wider. This is one reason why I say it is imperative to just look at a binocular and let it tell its own story. But the sheet says...so people don't get the right idea without trying for themselves. You tell me here the 7x45 Maven is a tunnel like 389'. How do you know this? It actually measures 8*, or 420', just like the Leicas that get praised for having a wide fov. Same as the Maven, which is tunnel like. Steve to earth...8* in a 7x glass is not wide. Get to 9* and you will see what I mean. A 10x42 UHD has a spec sheet listing of 346', which computes to a 66* afov. I don't know what the UHD actually measures, but it and the Maven are very close together in afov. This is the first thing I'd look at if I had a UHD for time enough to do a proper review.

The Sports Optics is a good price and certainly competitive for what you are getting. Even SW's $1,599 is not too out of line for what you get. The problem is many people will have a hard time swallowing Vortex as a vendor of quality of this price level. It is now clearer as to why the posted review link rated the UHD where they did.

I think Maven needs to build a B2 8x42 because it is a more popular birding size than a 9x45. I think the 9x45 is targeted more for hunter's who want the higher magnification. A B2 8x42 with a 400 foot FOV and an AK Prism and sell it for $1K and it would be a good seller for them.

PYRTLE said:

If they cannot be retrieved from river = lost...... insurance job

If they are recovered then repaired or replaced with a similarly aged but working example = warranty

Deer turns back and gorges hunter whilst scrabbling near riverbank = divine retribution, binos and rifle thrown away, Kudos to the buck.
P

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ROFL!

In case of dropped in river and recovered, it should better be a matter of a good rinse at the tap for high quality waterproof bins...

Joachim

I think it's fair to say whatever the Vortex warranty, it's as good, or better than anything else on the market.

When used a tripod adapter on my Razors, I lost the screw in blanking caps.
One email and Vortex sent me three foc. I know its no cost them anything, but at least it shows they care.

giosblue said:

I think it's fair to say whatever the Vortex warranty, it's as good, or better than anything else on the market.

When used a tripod adapter on my Razors, I lost the screw in blanking caps.
One email and Vortex sent me three foc. I know its no cost them anything, but at least it shows they care.

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A blanking cap costs just a few pence and is cosmetic only, most big companies would have them in stock and or send them out. This does not constitute the Vortex warranty being better than most in my opinion. Also, how are you personally able to make this statement please?

Thanks.

jring said:

ROFL!

In case of dropped in river and recovered, it should better be a matter of a good rinse at the tap for high quality waterproof bins...

Joachim

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It depends on how FAR the drop was!

PYRTLE said:

A blanking cap costs just a few pence and is cosmetic only, most big companies would have them in stock and or send them out. This does not constitute the Vortex warranty being better than most in my opinion. Also, how are you personally able to make this statement please?

Thanks.

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In my experience Vortex does have some of the best Customer Service around. They are very personal and responsive when you need something or have problems. I must say I can't complain about Swarovski either though! I bought a Vortex Razor HD 10x42 and the diopter was funky and I returned it too the dealer and got a refund but I emailed Vortex and told them about it and they sent me a free pair of Vortex Razor HD 10x42 binoculars no charge. I wonder who else would do that! Not even Swarovski would!

Coin Hound said:

"The same thing applies to the Maven B 2. If I had a UHD, would I be interested in a B 2? Probably not. If I had a B 2, would I be interested in a UHD? Again. probably not. If I was in the market for this sort of a binocular, which would I choose?"

Thank you Steve--your analysis is spot on. I use the Maven 7x45 and was waiting for another to make the obvious connection.

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That would depend on if you wanted an 8x. Maven is missing the boat only making the B2 in 7x and 9x. For birder's 8x42 is the most popular and best selling format. I am not saying it is the best just the best selling.

PYRTLE said:

A blanking cap costs just a few pence and is cosmetic only, most big companies would have them in stock and or send them out. This does not constitute the Vortex warranty being better than most in my opinion. Also, how are you personally able to make this statement please?

Thanks.

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Well, seeing ask you ask I'll tell you.
When I was looking to but some some 8x42, tried a pair of Zeiss Conquest, for me, the eye-cups were too short. My understanding at the time was a longer eye cup was available. I emailed Zeiss twice and didn't get a reply from from them.
You seem to have misread my reply, you are relating my experience at receiving three new blanking caps from Vortex to some warranty claim. It's not, I told Vortex I had lost them and was willing to pay for them and they sent them FOC.

With regards to the Vortex warranty, although I have no personal experience with Vortex or any other optics manufacture for that matter, if Vortex are true to their word and I have not seen any evidence that they are not. Then I stand by my original statement that the Vortex warranty is better that most.

Oh and thanks for letting me know that the caps are only cosmetic. I had no idea. I didn't use my bins for week while I was waiting for them to arrive.
I thought it held them together.
Silly me, clearly I have a lot to learn from some of you guys.

As the (perfectly reasonable) limitations of Vortex warranty have emerged it seems that Dennis's binocular, at first thought lost in deep water, has miraculously been recovered in the shallows.

Thanks for your reply, indicating no history of warranty with any of the recognised Alpha brands meaning your post # 65 has little or no merit in relation to comparisson with other makes. Really no need for your unnecessary sarcasm in the last paragraph of your post - I was and am still being civil.

P

henry link said:

Read the last line.

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Oh dear, read that last line.

The VIP Warranty does not cover loss, theft, deliberate damage or cosmetic damage that does not hinder the performance of the product."

Why would it, no warranty would cover that, on anything.

Read the first three lines, no one else offers this kind of warranty to my knowledge.

UNLIMITED LIFETIME WARRANTY
FULLY TRANSFERABLE
NO RECEIPT NEEDED

For some reason some people on these forums have a real downer on Vortex, I don't know why, but knocking there warranty is, in my opinion an all time low.

giosblue said:

Oh dear, read that last line.

The VIP Warranty does not cover loss, theft, deliberate damage or cosmetic damage that does not hinder the performance of the product."

Why would it, no warranty would cover that, on anything.

Read the first three lines, no one else offers this kind of warranty to my knowledge.

UNLIMITED LIFETIME WARRANTY
FULLY TRANSFERABLE
NO RECEIPT NEEDED

For some reason some people on these forums have a real downer on Vortex, I don't know why, but knocking there warranty is, in my opinion an all time low.

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OK, let's tune in on this one.
By EU law, the seller is responsible for the warranty. NOT THE MANUFACTURER.
Let's take the current situation with Leathermen Tools. Always sold with 25 years warranty conditions like Vortex but since 2019 the replacement parts have stopped. If you break a part of the tool, buy a new one. Breaking is suddenly no longer a warranty. The reason behind it (so I was told by the Leathermen rep) is that the costs for replacements have become to high and Leathermen USA has stopped delivering spare parts to their reps worldwide.

Who gets the shit? The dealer that sold the tools under that warranty and has to refund the complainer. The rep points at the manufacturer., so a civil persuit is the only way left.........Yeah sure.B

Let's face it. It is commercially impossible to give a unlimited lifetime warranty and survive on the long run and raving talks like we read here don't help.
Just my 2c

Jan

PYRTLE said:

Thanks for your reply, indicating no history of warranty with any of the recognised Alpha brands meaning your post # 65 has little or no merit in relation to comparisson with other makes. Really no need for your unnecessary sarcasm in the last paragraph of your post - I was and am still being civil.

P

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I'm sorry but you seem to have some difficulty with my posts.

Just to be clear.
Let me try again post 65 made crystal clear that I have no history of warranty with ANY OPTICS manufacture. Alpha or otherwise.

This is what I said and I stand by what I said 100%

"I think it's fair to say whatever the Vortex warranty, it's as good, or better than anything else on the market"


Who has a better warranty than this.

UNLIMITED LIFETIME WARRANTY
FULLY TRANSFERABLE
NO RECEIPT NEEDED

Please enlighten me me. I must be missing something.
I usually am

Oh and I know the end caps only cost pennies and that they are cosmetic, I don't need you to tell me that. Nevertheless, I wanted them and Vortex provided them, quickly and free of charge.

I don't normally get involved in online spats, I don't have the time.
But There seems to be a real snobbery element from some members who look down on anything they perceive in not to be "Alpha"
I read the post from the guy who sent his new Swarovski bins back to Swarovski and what a disaster that was.
So although I have no personal history a "alpha brand warranty" I have read a post on these forums from someone who has and that was nothing short off appalling service. And this was a pair of brand new bins.

[email protected] said:

In my experience Vortex does have some of the best Customer Service around. They are very personal and responsive when you need something or have problems. I must say I can't complain about Swarovski either though! I bought a Vortex Razor HD 10x42 and the diopter was funky and I returned it too the dealer and got a refund but I emailed Vortex and told them about it and they sent me a free pair of Vortex Razor HD 10x42 binoculars no charge. No I wonder who else would do that! Not even Swarovski would!

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I’m impressed by Vortex’s service. I bought a used Razor 65 scope (old model) which had a ratchets focus wheel. Vortex arranged for me to send it to them (at no cost to me) and pick up a brand new version (still old model) from my local dealer.

So I got a new scope for old.

Couldn’t reasonably ask for more.

jan van daalen said:

OK, let's tune in on this one.
By EU law, the seller is responsible for the warranty. NOT THE MANUFACTURER.
Let's take the current situation with Leathermen Tools. Always sold with 25 years warranty conditions like Vortex but since 2019 the replacement parts have stopped. If you break a part of the tool, buy a new one. Breaking is suddenly no longer a warranty. The reason behind it (so I was told by the Leathermen rep) is that the costs for replacements have become to high and Leathermen USA has stopped delivering spare parts to their reps worldwide.

Who gets the shit? The dealer that sold the tools under that warranty and has to refund the complainer. The rep points at the manufacturer., so a civil persuit is the only way left.........Yeah sure.B

Let's face it. It is commercially impossible to give a unlimited lifetime warranty and survive on the long run and raving talks like we read here don't help.
Just my 2c

Jan

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By EU law, the seller is responsible for the warranty. NOT THE MANUFACTURER.

Not strictly correct, the consumers first port of call and should be only port of call is with the retailer who sold the goods. That is correct, the consumer should have no need to contact the manufacturer, ever.

The manufacturer warranties the goods and it is the manufacturer of the goods that warranties them to the retailer.
Ultimately the manufacturer must take responsibility because they are the ones who are in a position to rectify any problems.
If there are any problems the retailer should take it up with their supplier.

UK law is, up six months, you are entitled to a replacement after that there is provision for them to be sent away for inspection.

Nothing to with my posts, but there you go,

giosblue said:

By EU law, the seller is responsible for the warranty. NOT THE MANUFACTURER.

Not strictly correct, the consumers first port of call and should be only port of call is with the retailer who sold the goods. That is correct, the consumer should have no need to contact the manufacturer, ever.

The manufacturer warranties the goods and it is the manufacturer of the goods that warranties them to the retailer.
Ultimately the manufacturer must take responsibility because they are the ones who are in a position to rectify any problems.
If there are any problems the retailer should take it up with their supplier.

UK law is, up six months, you are entitled to a replacement after that there is provision for them to be sent away for inspection.

Nothing to with my posts, but there you go,

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I think we mean the same thing.
The customer deals with the retailer and the retailer deals with the customer.
The retailer deals with the manufacturer or its representative.
The customer has no dealing with the manufacturer but when the manufacturer does not follows its warranty obligations because on the long run the costs are getting to high....
That's my point.

Jan

jan van daalen said:

I think we mean the same thing.
The customer deals with the retailer and the retailer deals with the customer.
The retailer deals with the manufacturer or its representative.
The customer has no dealing with the manufacturer but when the manufacturer does not follows its warranty obligations because on the long run the costs are getting to high....
That's my point.

Jan

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That's correct, your contract as a customer is with the retailer who sold you the product. no one else.

giosblue said:

That's correct, your contract as a customer is with the retailer who sold you the product. no one else.

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Hi,

in europe there's two different things:

- legal warranty of two years, although after 6 months the customer has to prove that the item was faulty at the time of sale - which might prove difficult. This is indeed always a matter between the seller and the customer. The seller can later try to get reimbursed by the manufacturer...

- manufacturer warranty - this is always a voluntary thing offered by the manufacturer and he can set the rules - be it to talk only to the seller or not at all. Or only applicable if the item broke during full moon. Whatever...
The only thing that is not allowed is a lifetime warranty, as this was ruled to be misleading as a company cannot actually provide a warranty beyond its bankruptcy (or would have to actually buy insurance for each item under warranty).

Joachim