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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Squee! Falconry Experience (1 Viewer)

We went yesterday and....if you like raptors, there are not enough expletives nor too much hyperbole to describe the "OMG!" and *squeeee* of this experience. Very few companies have the necessary permits to allow the general public to do this legally in the USA or California, and I am lucky that I live a "mere 2.5 hours" from this. WOWOMGSQUEEEEEE!

I'd post photos, but since these are captive birds (but none are wild captures aside from rescues), that's a no-go here (and I understand why).

I see us going back to take one of their more in-depth sessions as some point.
 
Wow, this sounds like the most AWESOME experience of all time!! I am so jealous!! I can't imagine I'll ever be able to afford it at that price though, unless I went alone, and what's the fun in that?

White tailed kites are among my favorite birds of all time, too. If woodpeckers didn't exist, I'd say they were my favorites :) I'd do just abt anything to see one in real life!

Congrats on your amazing experience! Now I'm off to see if they offer anything like this in NY...
 
Wow, this sounds like the most AWESOME experience of all time!! I am so jealous!! I can't imagine I'll ever be able to afford it at that price though, unless I went alone, and what's the fun in that?
To be honest, we had a 50% off coupon from Travelzoo for the "two person" price. That was tough to say "no" to.

But now that we've done it...I think we'd do it again at full price some day and just scratch a pile of pennies together to do it. :t:
 
Then I will simply apologize for the mistaken generalization. They would still be considered "birds of prey" I assume?

No need to apologize. . ..

I’ve just checked a half-dozen dictionaries, all of which—with no exceptions—treat “raptor” and “bird of prey” as strictly synonymous. Thus the common distinction between “diurnal raptors” (or birds of prey) and “nocturnal raptors”’(or birds of prey). Personally, I dislike “raptor”—with its phony technical-termish connotation—and never use it.
 
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No need to apologize. . .. I’ve just checked half-dozen dictionaries , all of which—no exceptions—treat “raptor” and “bird of prey” as completely synonymous. Thus the common distinction between “diurnal raptors” (or birds of prey) and “nocturnal raptors”’(or birds of prey).

Tell Ferguson-Lees and ask him why Owls are not in the Handbook of 'Raptors of the World', you suggest he should have prefaced that with 'diurnal'?

Here's another title and again, no Owls?

https://www.amazon.com/Raptors-Mexi..._rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=NYDWPP84R14YSNBZ46AD

and another

https://www.amazon.com/African-Rapt...=1537717245&sr=1-1&keywords=raptors+of+africa

and another

https://www.amazon.com/Flight-Ident...=1537717245&sr=1-2&keywords=raptors+of+africa

It seems to me that no professional ornithologist, considers Owls to be true Raptors.
 
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Personally, I dislike “raptor”—with its phony technical-termish connotation—and never use it.
I like "raptor" because it's shorter to type and say in conversation than "birds of prey," especially when having to reference the descriptor frequently.

I was using it more colloquially than scientifically because most people (even myself to a degree) couldn't tell a hawk from a falcon and it's easier in this instance to describe "flying bird who is a predator with sharp talons and beak." Yeah, I did wonder about owls, but others seem to lump them in, so I did too.

But here at BirdForum I do try to use correct (or maybe "preferred" or "accepted" is a better way of putting it) terminology when I know better. I don't know enough to argue out these slivers of meaning. :)
 
. . .It seems to me that no professional ornithologist, considers Owls to be true Raptors.

Not so—

https://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Nor...s+the+curious+nature+of+diurnal+birds+of+prey

The fact is, “raptor” is an informal term so “true” doesn’t come into it except insofar as it conforms to the dictionary definition. As a book title, “Raptors of the World” is simply ambiguous and before buying or consulting such a book, I’d want to know if it included owls.
 
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Fugl,
Followed your link which went to an advert that described both volumes 4 and 5 of the Handbook of N.American Birds. These were shown as having detailed information on " kites, vultures, hawks, eagles, falcons and osprey". No mention of owls.
Where are owls dealt with in this series as I don't have access to this set?
As an aside, I looked up raptor in the Oxford dictionary and it cited a sentence example which included owl as a raptor. So scientifically it may be incorrect to call an owl a raptor, but generally it's acceptable.

P
 
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Fugl,
Followed your link which went to an advert that described both volumes 4 and 5 of the Handbook of N.American Birds. These were shown as having detailed information on " kites, vultures, hawks, eagles, falcons and osprey". No mention of owls.
Where are owls dealt with in this series as I don't have access to this set?
As an aside, I looked up raptor in the Oxford dictionary and it cited a sentence example which included owl as a raptor. So scientifically it may be incorrect to call an owl a raptor, but generally it's acceptable.

“Handbook of North American Birds: Volume 4, Diurnal Raptors (Part 1)”.
It’s the “diurnal” that’s relevant here, as it presupposes there are such things as “nocturnal” raptors (i.e., owls).

The “Handbook” project was abandoned early on, the “diurnal” bird of prey volumes being the last to be completed, I believe. The modern equivalent—started in 1992 and now complete—is BNA-online, a magnificent work continually updated.
 
“Handbook of North American Birds: Volume 4, Diurnal Raptors (Part 1)”.
It’s the “diurnal” that’s relevant here, as it presupposes there are such things as “nocturnal” raptors (i.e., owls).
So, are owls included in this volume?
 
Not so—

https://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Nor...s+the+curious+nature+of+diurnal+birds+of+prey

The fact is, “raptor” is an informal term so “true” doesn’t come into it except insofar as it conforms to the dictionary definition. As a book title, “Raptors of the World” is simply ambiguous and before buying or consulting such a book, I’d want to know if it included owls.

There are at least a couple of volumes dedicated just to Owls as you probably know, no guide to raptors that I'm aware of, includes Owls.

Just found a quote from Klaus Koning from his well regarded book 'Owls of the World'.

'Owls are ecologically the noctural counterparts to diurnal raptors without being related to them. This phenomenon in biology in which unrelated groups come to resemble each other through adaptation to similar lifestyles is called divergence''...........
 
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Exactly Andy, they'd call out "owl" whereas the other group we're discussing, the generic call could be "raptor" or "bop" unless it was designated to a particular species (e.g. Osprey) or falcon, hawk or eagle. Most of the time a keen and experienced birder would name the species if they were familiar with same such as Barn, Little, Short-eared, Tawny or Kestrel, Peregrine, Hobby or Merlin.
I don't know any birder, that I've been with call an owl a raptor.
 
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'Owls are ecologically the noctural counterparts to diurnal raptors without being related to them. This phenomenon in biology in which unrelated groups come to resemble each other through adaptation to similar lifestyles is called divergence''...........

Not true, owls now being regarded as comparatively close relatives of eagles, hawks, ospreys, kites, condors and the rest while modern classifications place falcons etc. closer to woodpeckers, parrots and passerines than to the other "raptors". And, in any case, none of this has anything to do with the informal nomenclature of the taxa concerned which is what we're talking about here..

The bolded word in the quotation, of course, should be "convergence" not "divergence".
 
Not true, owls now being regarded as comparatively close relatives of eagles, hawks, ospreys, kites, condors and the rest while modern classifications place falcons etc. closer to woodpeckers, parrots and passerines than to the other "raptors". And, in any case, none of this has anything to do with the informal nomenclature of the taxa concerned which is what we're talking about here..

The bolded word in the quotation, of course, should be "convergence"
not "divergence".

First bold, Can you point me to that in writing, are Falcons being moved closer to Parrots in the lists and Owls closer to Eagles etc? Who's doing this work, DNA based it has to be so there must be a paper, even better a nice easy, dumbed down summary?

Second bold, yes my error, apologies,
I think that this boils down to another transatlantic difference, Europeans do not, please correct me if I'm wrong, consider Owls to be raptors.
 
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First bold, Can you point me to that in writing, are Falcons being moved closer to Parrots in the lists and Owls closer to Eagles etc? Who's doing this work, DNA based it has to be so there must be a paper, even better a nice easy, dumbed down summary?

Here’s what comes most readily to hand. . ..

http://checklist.aou.org/taxa/

I think that this boils down to another transatlantic difference, Europeans do not, please correct me if I'm wrong, consider Owls to be raptors.

Well, perhaps, though I’m not as active a birder as I used to be so not up on the latest birding jargon. In general, raptor—diurnal or nocturnal—is much more commonly heard in birding circles here than bird of prey which is hardly ever used.
 
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