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What is the best camouflage jacket (& trousers) that money can buy?

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Old Friday 13th November 2015, 14:17   #26
shiphen
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Originally Posted by Paul1963 View Post
For nature watching you won't need camouflage - it is a misconception. Clothing in reduced hues (darker browns, greens etc) work perfectly well to break up an individuals outline under normal conditions.
Please provide evidence for this opinion.

This sounds off-the-scale unlikely to me. Even standing still doesn't necessarily help. As any scareCROW will tell you.

Moreover if the camouflage is taken to extremes... (see attached) the fact that another human can find it almost impossible to see someone is a really good camouflage outfit clearly counts for quite a lot (bird UV sensors not withstanding!)

For example there is absolutely no way that someone inside what is effectively portable bird hide covered in leaves (see attached!) is going to be as distracting to wildlife as someone of clearly human shape in a dull plain green gortex smock!
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Last edited by shiphen : Saturday 14th November 2015 at 01:43.
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Old Saturday 14th November 2015, 14:01   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul1963 View Post
For nature watching you won't need camouflage - it is a misconception. Clothing in reduced hues (darker browns, greens etc) work perfectly well to break up an individuals outline under normal conditions.
Agreed. Over here all the hunters just wear dull green or brown clothing, no camouflage gear at all. And they're likely to know what they're doing. Camouflage is really only important if you don't want to be seen by *people* which is why the military prefers it.

Two additional things: Wearing a hat breaks up the outline of the head quite nicely. And it's pretty useful to avoid any clothing that rustles or makes any other noise. I hate velcro ... :-)

Goretex - well, I don't use it anymore, except occasionally when birding in autumn and winter in very wet and windy conditions. Most shell clothing makes far too much noise. I also find goretex only really works in a rather narrow temperature range, and it doesn't last well. I'm back to wearing more traditional garments, carrying a poncho (or an umbrella) in my pack, and in mountainous areas some lightweight shell clothing in case the weather turns nasty.

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Old Saturday 14th November 2015, 14:19   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul1963 View Post
For nature watching you won't need camouflage - it is a misconception. Clothing in reduced hues (darker browns, greens etc) work perfectly well to break up an individuals outline under normal conditions.

As far as military gear is concerned it is more often of a particular camouflage pattern for tactical purposes and less for actual camouflage purposes.

As mentioned by a number of folks in the thread fieldcraft is the all important part
Agreed.

Fieldcraft and keeping still provide outstanding and often unexpected results.

Camo as an essential is a myth and nothing else. Marketing creates the desire, mainly to spend to keep up.

Camo is what fishermen wear to Tescos


Best wishes,

Last edited by Samandag : Saturday 14th November 2015 at 15:34. Reason: typo
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Old Wednesday 18th November 2015, 10:44   #29
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Agreed.
Camo as an essential is a myth and nothing else. Marketing creates the desire, mainly to spend to keep up.
Thinking it through, are you claiming that is a material is still the same 3D shape that a bird will be just as likely to think it a human?

Or are you saying that if you show your face, that your clothing is essentially irrelevant (provided the colours are muted and not moving)?

It's certainly true that hiding under branches and leaves can work well - or are you disputing that too?
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Old Saturday 21st November 2015, 19:48   #30
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They may not be lightweight, but the M65 field jacket is hard to beat. Comes in sand, black and khaki green, there may be some camo options too. I've worn mine for years and is totally waterproof and warm due to the removeable quilted inner liner. It also has the advantage of large pockets too. I'd go one size down though as they do come up pretty generous.
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Old Tuesday 24th November 2015, 10:37   #31
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They may not be lightweight, but the M65 field jacket is hard to beat. Comes in sand, black and khaki green, there may be some camo options too. I've worn mine for years and is totally waterproof and warm due to the removeable quilted inner liner. It also has the advantage of large pockets too. I'd go one size down though as they do come up pretty generous.
How well does it perform in foul weather?

> Material: NyCo (50% Nylon, 50% Cotton).
> Liner: outer covering - 100% nylon, batting - 100% polyester

It doesn't sound too water proof.


P.S. Not helpful given that much of my birding is done in the West Highlands of Scotland (!)

Last edited by shiphen : Tuesday 24th November 2015 at 22:40.
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Old Saturday 28th November 2015, 17:11   #32
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How well does it perform in foul weather?

> Material: NyCo (50% Nylon, 50% Cotton).
> Liner: outer covering - 100% nylon, batting - 100% polyester

It doesn't sound too water proof.


P.S. Not helpful given that much of my birding is done in the West Highlands of Scotland (!)
It's quarpel treated, and mine has never leaked, and i've been out in a fair few downpours, not to mention snow. One thing that is worth mentioning is where you buy it from. I originally went to an army surplus place and i've never had any problems with it, but i've seen some reviews on Amazon for the same jacket and noticed that some reviews have been less than stellar, which leads me to believe that the waterproofing applied (or not as the case may be) is not always the same.
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Old Sunday 29th November 2015, 13:08   #33
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I had never heard of "quarpel" until now.
Apparently Quarpel is short for "Quartermaster Repellent" which was invented by the U.S. Army Natick Laboratories way back in 1959 and consists of a fluorocarbon, which repels both water and hydro-carbon oils.

According to this link, quarpel is not designed to last and will gradually wear off:
http://www.itsamodthing.com/frequent...questions.html

And will only survive "up to 15 launderings":
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=225248

Although the M65 fishtail parka is made of cotton sateen which is quarpel (water repellent) treated, they are not classed as waterproof. Whilst the quarpel treatment is still new, rain will form in droplets on the M65 parka and fall off. However over time, the quarpel treatment will fade away and protection will be lost

So although it may work well initially, I will find it irritating if there is no way to make it last...
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Old Sunday 29th November 2015, 13:21   #34
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Originally Posted by shiphen View Post
I had never heard of "quarpel" until now.
Apparently Quarpel is short for "Quartermaster Repellent" which was invented by the U.S. Army Natick Laboratories way back in 1959 and consists of a fluorocarbon, which repels both water and hydro-carbon oils.

According to this link, quarpel is not designed to last and will gradually wear off:
http://www.itsamodthing.com/frequent...questions.html

And will only survive "up to 15 launderings":
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=225248

Although the M65 fishtail parka is made of cotton sateen which is quarpel (water repellent) treated, they are not classed as waterproof. Whilst the quarpel treatment is still new, rain will form in droplets on the M65 parka and fall off. However over time, the quarpel treatment will fade away and protection will be lost

So although it may work well initially, I will find it irritating if there is no way to make it last...
You could do what i did -- wash the inner quilted liner, but not the quarpel treated outer layer. It really depends on how dirty you expect to get, and whether you're happy with not washing the outer part. Not washing it didn't really bother me that much, but then, i'm no domestic goddess.

Hope you find something you like, very often it's just a case of personal preference and trial and error.
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Old Sunday 29th November 2015, 13:31   #35
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The camo is all but useless. Hunters find some use as they move very little to take aim. Any walking movement is detected by birds. Birds generally see much better than mammals.

Concentrate on the weather aspect. I've bought camo boots as the non camo was too hard to find locally and I need to try boots, no mail order.
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Old Sunday 29th November 2015, 16:00   #36
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Yes I know birds respond to movement. Which is why I am planning to stay very still for prolonged periods.


P.S.
Re waterproofing fluid - all this talk of "superhydrophobic nanotechnology" sounds intriguing.
Maybe all we need is a cotton shirt and some nanontechnology fluid...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvTkefJHfC0

See the thread I started to discuss this:
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=315916

Last edited by shiphen : Sunday 29th November 2015 at 21:58.
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Old Monday 30th November 2015, 08:25   #37
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Have a look at Rivers West. Many wildfowlers - who know a little bit about keeping dry - recommend their jackets. Their Eider jacket seems to be the coat of choice, though their poncho looks handy as you could store it in a bag for when needed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz9qRZxfG1U

http://www.riverswest.com/index.html
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Old Monday 30th November 2015, 22:09   #38
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Riverswest sounds interesting. They seem to be good in several ways however there isn't much talk about the critical aspect of breathability - which is crucial when doing any sort of hill-climbing.

EDIT:
PS This guy claims that in practice that they aren't breathable "at all" !
http://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.u...p/t-30661.html
>>>
I have rivers west gear (amongst others) and can honestly say that it is not breathable at all. If you are looking for something to keep you warm and dry in a high seat etc then I would definitely recommend, but the minute you become active you will be soaked on the inside. Because they are so waterproof I find that I have to turn the jacket inside out to get it to dry out.
>>>

Last edited by shiphen : Monday 30th November 2015 at 22:15.
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Old Monday 30th November 2015, 22:26   #39
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Here's another line of thinking: The Swanndri Bush Shirt
http://www.raymears.com/Bushcraft_Pr...hshirt-Olive/#

It seems to cope with light rain very well...
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Old Monday 25th April 2016, 16:26   #40
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I'm a great fan of the Buffalo range of clothing and have the Special six and Active lite shirts. The Special six is too hot if active and over about 5 C but the Active lite is ok up to T shirt weather. Both are warm and comfortable when wet (from sweat or rain). Wind and shower proof - in heavy rain a waterproof shell keeps the worst off. Since the temperature is usually over 5C I use the Active lite (I have 3) and a Montane Prism jacket for stops. Buffalo do jackets that are good but I prefer something smaller and lighter in my pack. Not camo but you can get a camo shell.
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