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Habicht - Military vs Standard....not quite the same.

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Old Wednesday 16th March 2016, 05:38   #1
Rathaus
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Habicht - Military vs Standard....not quite the same.

I've just done a comparison I should have done a while back between these two bins. I've used them side by side and sometimes the military IF (2012) has baffled me with an ever so slightly different image. I removed it's reticle a while back. I have other Habichts but the one I'm comparing it to is its 'twin' a late model black with CF and large rubber eye cup upgrade.

The Military Habicht simply has a larger field of view. roughly 4-5deg I would estimate. The standard black Habicht appears to be 'stopped' down with a slightly smaller fov. I had each bin up to each eyeball at the same time to check magnification and it appears to be identical in magnification as I managed to cross and hand collimate images for a second or so and they were absolutely spot on same size. Actually I got a really good merged image for a second or two lol.

The military habicht has sometimes appeared to be very slightly brighter than the standard habicht but now I'm wondering if this is a function, real or perceived, of the slightly larger fov in an otherwise identical bin.

The edge performance of the military model would appear to suffer slightly more than the standard habicht, but possibly because it isn't stopped down.

Any thoughts on this?
Does anybody else have these two bins and compared them?

Rathaus
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Old Wednesday 16th March 2016, 07:47   #2
jan van daalen
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Originally Posted by Rathaus View Post
I've just done a comparison I should have done a while back between these two bins. I've used them side by side and sometimes the military IF (2012) has baffled me with an ever so slightly different image. I removed it's reticle a while back. I have other Habichts but the one I'm comparing it to is its 'twin' a late model black with CF and large rubber eye cup upgrade.

The Military Habicht simply has a larger field of view. roughly 4-5deg I would estimate. The standard black Habicht appears to be 'stopped' down with a slightly smaller fov. I had each bin up to each eyeball at the same time to check magnification and it appears to be identical in magnification as I managed to cross and hand collimate images for a second or so and they were absolutely spot on same size. Actually I got a really good merged image for a second or two lol.

The military habicht has sometimes appeared to be very slightly brighter than the standard habicht but now I'm wondering if this is a function, real or perceived, of the slightly larger fov in an otherwise identical bin.

The edge performance of the military model would appear to suffer slightly more than the standard habicht, but possibly because it isn't stopped down.

Any thoughts on this?
Does anybody else have these two bins and compared them?

Rathaus
Rathaus,

I will get them in end of this week and let you know after the weekend.

Jan
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Old Wednesday 16th March 2016, 08:47   #3
Rathaus
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Rathaus,

I will get them in end of this week and let you know after the weekend.

Jan
Great many thanks Jan.

Rathaus
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Old Wednesday 16th March 2016, 11:12   #4
henry link
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Rathaus,

It's certainly possible that the IF eyepiece housing has room for a larger field stop. Sometimes IF binoculars have no field stop at all in the eyepiece. If that's the case you'll notice the black border at the field edge go in and out of focus at different distances. I assume you noticed a difference in the size of the field circles when you had a an eyepiece from each binocular held to each eye in your evaluation of magnification. It should be easy enough to measure the real FOV difference between the two by simply viewing a tape measure stretched across the fields at a close distance or counting the number of bricks on a distant building that span the fields.
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Old Wednesday 16th March 2016, 21:05   #5
Rathaus
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Rathaus,

It's certainly possible that the IF eyepiece housing has room for a larger field stop. Sometimes IF binoculars have no field stop at all in the eyepiece. If that's the case you'll notice the black border at the field edge go in and out of focus at different distances. I assume you noticed a difference in the size of the field circles when you had a an eyepiece from each binocular held to each eye in your evaluation of magnification. It should be easy enough to measure the real FOV difference between the two by simply viewing a tape measure stretched across the fields at a close distance or counting the number of bricks on a distant building that span the fields.
What you suggest makes absolute sense to me. I've queried here about the possible difference in eye pieces in habicht IF and CF before and had no response. To my eyes, the black fov stop/boarder of the military habicht is definitely not as well defined or sharp most of the time.

Looking down from the top of a hill, I was measuring fov using a 60foot pine tree with a swimming pool below...some x distance away. I could just get the entire tree with the black habicht - bins stationary and swivelling my eyeballs top to bottom (terribly blurry on the extreme edge in both bins). I can get the entire tree plus narrow swimming pool below in the military habicht. It's noticeable. Not the most precise scientific testing, but enough to clearly differentiate.

The extra fov is basically useless because it's such a blur, but It would appear to give the illusion of a fatter picture when looking centre. I like it.
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Old Wednesday 16th March 2016, 21:42   #6
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For a military binocular that extra field might be very useful.
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Old Wednesday 16th March 2016, 23:17   #7
Rathaus
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Rathaus.. you inbox is full so won't accept messages.

You described before that both the black and green habicht have similar half turn from infinity to close focus... supposed you use just one eye to focus using the black habicht and one eye also in the green habicht.. why would it still be easier to focus in the black habicht if both one eye.. is it because the small focuser is less stiffer than the individual focuser although the individual focuser seem to have more extend or turn (hence should make more fine focusing)?
Probably inherent by IF military design, the IF is far firmer and stiffer to focus than even the often maligned CF Habicht focuser (I have absolutely no problem with either). The CF is both far easier to physically turn, plus there's just the one dial to concentrate on.

They both have a water seal rating, but if I had to throw one to the bottom of a pool it'd obviously be the military. That super snug and firm IF must be virtually impregnable...within reason. I unscrewed it's right eye piece to remove the reticle and I can say, it was tight and silky smooth, a bit like unscrewing the case back of a good dive watch.

Didn't John Dracon post once about his older military 8x30 IF ' Zeiss spending an entire winter season submerged in a lake or stream? Under ice, before being found again, perfect? The IF Habicht will be the same as this.

Last edited by Rathaus : Wednesday 16th March 2016 at 23:33.
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Old Thursday 17th March 2016, 01:28   #8
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One fun game I've played is to set the IPD perfectly and then set the two Habichts perfectly objective to objective...so they optically cancel each other out magnification wise. So, you get a 1x magnification through a double layer of full glass. The view is still fantastic and clear.

I was thinking that this is a cunning way to test optical degradation and light reduction. It's easy to instantly compare the image to plain eyesight. (My diopters are roughly zero)
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Old Saturday 27th April 2019, 09:41   #9
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" late model black with CF and large rubber eye cup upgrade."...
Hi Rathaus.
I was reading on another thread where you had posted about different winged eye cups that you used for swaro binoculars (OEM eye cups for swaro roofs). There you also said that you used these eye cups for other binoculars as well.

Here, in this thread, you mention that one of your Habichts has the 'large rubber eye cup upgrade'. I don't know if you are referring to the current original eye cups (as opposed to the non rubber eye cups on older generation habichts).

Personally I feel that good winged eyecups is something that should be delivered with every binocular sold, ever, always! With the option of changing to "spectacle eyecups" of course (What is called standard eye cups today).
It's almost disrespectful in a way to have such high quality optics and then let light come in from the sides and interfere with the light path and contracting the pupil. Almost as bad as having an opening in the binocular tube somewhere between the objective lens and the eyepiece in fact.

I have used Field optics winged eye cup add ons on my Habicht 8x30. They are not bad but they do not shut tight around the eye. They do shield from light entering from the sides quite well. Downside is that you have to adjust them every now and then so that they sit on straight. And once in a while one comes of and goes to that special place where things such as one black eye cup, old keys, one sock, one glove, one eargel, reciepts.. and such go never to return or be fund again. And this just happened to me, again :)

The best thing would of course be if there were some winged eye cups that would fit the threads on the Habicht's eye piece, so that you could screw on some winged eyecups that would stay on.

Steiner binoculars have some models with great winged eyecups. Like the Nighthunter (porro version) for example. Great solution on the tethered objective lens covers also.

Sorry if I'm posting a random on an old thread. I just had to get this question out once more and you seem to have a heavy binocular shelf and have experimented with this to some extent. Have you found a good solution?
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Old Saturday 27th April 2019, 18:04   #10
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Bramburg:

As for your question of the larger eyecup for the Habicht, there is a post on here about it, if you go back and search from last year, and
here is a photo of the larger green armored style on the black leather one.

I find the larger eyecup helps me to get a better view, and place the eyecups better in the eye socket.
I don't wear glasses.

Jerry
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Old Saturday 27th April 2019, 18:09   #11
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Bramburg:

As for your question of the larger eyecup for the Habicht, there is a post on here about it, if you go back and search from last year, and
here is a photo of the larger green armored style on the black leather one.

I find the larger eyecup helps me to get a better view, and place the eyecups better in the eye socket.
I don't wear glasses.

Jerry

Nice setup!
I've read that other thread to. I just got a bit confused about the different styles of eye cups, thought you meant winged ones.
Do you fit the original swarovksi winged eye cups on the habicht?
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