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Does EMR harm living organisms?

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Old Monday 10th June 2019, 10:29   #1676
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Originally Posted by Purple Heron View Post
..... In any case, there is no question than millennials are not as healthy even as the generation before them. .....
I wouldn't be so sure about that. This is the generation that never heard the word "no" when they were growing up. The same generation that made binge drinking and hedonistic excess an art form. This is the same generation where everyone is a winner, where nearly everyone has an internet diagnosed disease as an excuse, as a badge of honour to demand to be treated specially. Where the lifestyle of today is put on the credit card of tomorrow. Not all, but it almost seems taboo to discuss these things.

I'm not surprised at increasing levels of depression when confronted with reality.





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Old Monday 10th June 2019, 16:50   #1677
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I wouldn't be so sure about that. This is the generation that never heard the word "no" when they were growing up. The same generation that made binge drinking and hedonistic excess an art form. This is the same generation where everyone is a winner, where nearly everyone has an internet diagnosed disease as an excuse, as a badge of honour to demand to be treated specially. Where the lifestyle of today is put on the credit card of tomorrow. Not all, but it almost seems taboo to discuss these things.

I'm not surprised at increasing levels of depression when confronted with reality.
Indeed, there’s not the slightest reason to think that the increased incidence of these conditions has anything to do with EMR.
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Old Monday 10th June 2019, 17:36   #1678
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Originally Posted by Chosun Juan View Post
I wouldn't be so sure about that. This is the generation that never heard the word "no" when they were growing up. The same generation that made binge drinking and hedonistic excess an art form. This is the same generation where everyone is a winner, where nearly everyone has an internet diagnosed disease as an excuse, as a badge of honour to demand to be treated specially. Where the lifestyle of today is put on the credit card of tomorrow. Not all, but it almost seems taboo to discuss these things.
Is it just me, or does this description fit just about any generation as described by the generation before them, horoscope-style?

(Mind you, I'm not a fan of millenials either, but the above seemed kinda broad. I'd say it describes the latter portion of Generation X fairly accurately as well, and every generation after them?)
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Old Monday 10th June 2019, 18:34   #1679
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Is it just me, or does this description fit just about any generation as described by the generation before them, horoscope-style?

(Mind you, I'm not a fan of millenials either, but the above seemed kinda broad. I'd say it describes the latter portion of Generation X fairly accurately as well, and every generation after them?)
While there has always been generational gaps - something very different happened starting with Generation Y. The positive psychology research of the 80's and 90's, powered leadership and business transformations as we headed through the new millenium.

However when the educational elites and bureaucrats tried to apply it they completely and utterly b*st*rdized it. Suddenly every child was a winner and personal responsibility and consequences were thrown out the window. A whole generation grew up never hearing the word "no". I wouldn't be surprised if the era was looked back upon as child abuse.

Of course there is more of a social conscience and consumer activism that has also been born out of that time, so it's not all bad news - it's just that quite a bit of it plays second fiddle to the lattes and smashed avo 'selfie' egocentric instagram set .....

I'm sure anyone with more than a casual interest could dig up reams of research to support the notion. My point was that these factors would be just as valid as anything else - perhaps even moreso.

The inherent labeling and diagnosis of a plethora of 'conditions' also brings more of these into the public consciousness. Whereas a child chucking a tantrum in the 'old days' would have been disciplined or caned ..... now they're off to the doctor's to be diagnosed with ADHD, put on a course of drugs, labeled, and given special treatment.

I know a lot of school teachers, and tales of a child being allowed to 'go wild' - up ending chairs and tables for as long as they want are not uncommon. Even the 'naughty corner' has fallen out of favor. Now the other children are just moved out of the way until the whirlwind subsides ....... brilliant stuff eh?

I'm sure many here on BF would have received a swift kick up the backside, rap over the knuckles, or piece of chalk expertly pinged right between the eyes if they'd tried that on ! ....... not anymore ........




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Old Tuesday 11th June 2019, 01:47   #1680
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Originally Posted by Chosun Juan View Post
While there has always been generational gaps - something very different happened starting with Generation Y. The positive psychology research of the 80's and 90's, powered leadership and business transformations as we headed through the new millenium.

However when the educational elites and bureaucrats tried to apply it they completely and utterly b*st*rdized it. Suddenly every child was a winner and personal responsibility and consequences were thrown out the window. A whole generation grew up never hearing the word "no". I wouldn't be surprised if the era was looked back upon as child abuse.

Of course there is more of a social conscience and consumer activism that has also been born out of that time, so it's not all bad news - it's just that quite a bit of it plays second fiddle to the lattes and smashed avo 'selfie' egocentric instagram set .....

I'm sure anyone with more than a casual interest could dig up reams of research to support the notion. My point was that these factors would be just as valid as anything else - perhaps even moreso.

The inherent labeling and diagnosis of a plethora of 'conditions' also brings more of these into the public consciousness. Whereas a child chucking a tantrum in the 'old days' would have been disciplined or caned ..... now they're off to the doctor's to be diagnosed with ADHD, put on a course of drugs, labeled, and given special treatment.

I know a lot of school teachers, and tales of a child being allowed to 'go wild' - up ending chairs and tables for as long as they want are not uncommon. Even the 'naughty corner' has fallen out of favor. Now the other children are just moved out of the way until the whirlwind subsides ....... brilliant stuff eh?

I'm sure many here on BF would have received a swift kick up the backside, rap over the knuckles, or piece of chalk expertly pinged right between the eyes if they'd tried that on ! ....... not anymore ........


Chosun
Not sure that the newer generation is much different, except that the youth incentives seem less generous.
An overhang of $1.4 trillion in student debt that often cannot be paid back and which cannot be defeased even in bankruptcy is bad for society imho.
It prevents people from taking on new opportunities and also from ever starting a family.
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Old Tuesday 11th June 2019, 09:30   #1681
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Not sure that the newer generation is much different, except that the youth incentives seem less generous.
An overhang of $1.4 trillion in student debt that often cannot be paid back and which cannot be defeased even in bankruptcy is bad for society imho.
It prevents people from taking on new opportunities and also from ever starting a family.
I won't speak for other countries, but in this country there was a definite step change.

It was distinctly caused by the mangled application of fundamental psychological research (a lot of it originated in the business arena, around motivation, teams, and empowerment) in the educational realm. It seemed to go hand in hand with Political Correctness, and the feminization of everything. I'm not sure if it is related but from then on saw big declines in the numbers of males teaching pre-, and primary school.

There were distinct changes in behaviour with everyone becoming a 'winner'. Discipline, and delayed gratification (maturity) went out the window. The increase of 'ferals' was marked. The amount of rubbish (mostly from fast food outlets) strewn without a shred of guilt all over the sides of roads was disturbing. The sort of thing that would have seen previous generations given a bl**dy good clip in the ear ......

I agree that the younger generation (Y) faced structural and systemic inequalities - education costs, rising housing and living costs. However, they also faced recruiters falling over themselves to employ the newly graduated digital natives. Had they had the work ethic and ability to sacrifice that older generations were forged in they would have had it made. Except, the generational 'softness' tended to live for now ...... on credit. Spoiled by their parent's McMansions, there was delayed maturation, instant gratification, and an almost abandonment of the hard yards done by previous generations.

For some very odd reason, the insecurities of later Boomers /Generation X played out with them (perhaps due to the pervasive culture of youth?) wanting (and suceeding) in becoming the first generation to primarily be first and foremost 'friends' with their children. Boundaries and discipline were the first casualties of parents abdicating parenting.

This Manifested in some rather nasty 'temper tantrums' - urging their bosses to p*** off and step aside - failing to realise that every previous generation also felt stuck and frustrated as they served their corporate time waiting to climb the ladder. It also resulted in the truly macabre wish for their parents to "hurry up and die already" so they could inherit their assets.

This petulant rhetoric has calmed down somewhat with the current Millenial generation, as all generations from the still forced to work Boomers, through X, Y, and now Millenials face the broad scale casualisation of the workforce, growing technological substitution, and high employment insecurity.

Some of this is rooted in our Right-wing leaning Industrialisation laws, the pressures of Globalisation, and the failure of trickle-down economics. The rest of it in a failed progressive push fueled by butchered psychology. Such was the magnitude of the failure that it could even be viewed as 'abuse'.

It is absolutely no wonder to me whatsoever that younger generations running into stark reality checks (such as older generations continuing on in relative good health, such as having to wait after all, such as realising that the only ones who frittered away their housing deposits was them, such as realising that despite ~10 or ~20 years working, they are still at the bottom of the mountain staring at a sheer face, etc) ........ find the whole thing depressing ..........

Before claims are made that this increase in 'mental health disorders' is caused by any single this or that, it would pay to look at the research, and the broad range of pressures and causes.



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Old Tuesday 11th June 2019, 10:32   #1682
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@ Chosun, Etudiant I have to say that youngsters today do seem terribly self-obsessed (I think they are being called "snowflakes"?) and in general don't see they are being encouraged to self-discipline and hard work. HOWEVER, (and this is important) the debt burden is immense, the opportunities for these kids are minimal, they are exploited by such things as the "internship" which actually means working for free and on balance I think they are getting a very raw deal indeed. As for school, middle-class parents always want to blame dyslexia, ADD, etc. for their kid merely being a spoiled brat (mostly because the parents don't pay the kid any attention and they want to foist responsibility elsewhere) but on the other hand these afflictions do actually exist and can happen to children whose parents do not ignore them. Greece is a very child-centered culture where kids are not ignored and yet we are seeing a steep rise in various problems as I mentioned yesterday. Also Greek students do not end up deeply in debt--education is still free, though there are few opportunities to use degrees without going abroad. So if the same health issues are affecting the whole generation regardless of where they live, it kind of narrows things down, doesn't it?
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Old Friday 14th June 2019, 09:46   #1683
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Now this is interesting:

https://www.theatlantic.com/technolo...g-game/590503/

Quoting:
Quote:
Lena Edlund, a Columbia University economist, and Cecilia Machado, of the Getulio Vargas Foundation, lay out the data in a new National Bureau of Economic Research working paper. They estimate that the diffusion of phones could explain 19 to 29 percent of the decline in homicides seen from 1990 to 2000.

“The cellphones changed how drugs were dealt,” Edlund told me. In the ’80s, turf-based drug sales generated violence as gangs attacked and defended territory, and also allowed those who controlled the block to keep profits high.

The cellphone broke the link, the paper claims, between turf and selling drugs. “It’s not that people don’t sell or do drugs anymore,” Edlund explained to me, “but the relationship between that and violence is different.”
Of course it might be that the extended usage of cell phones by drug pushers fried their brains. Maybe the effect was cumulative with the previous punishment inflicted by pagers?
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Old Saturday 15th June 2019, 10:32   #1684
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@ Borjam I never said wireless technology didn't have its uses. But I do maintain it is dangerous to us and the planet on account of the EMR. The Atlantic article has to do with how the usage of cell phones changed the drug-dealing business model, and is not relevant to the discussion.

@ all It is beginning to look as if 5G, and 5G from space, might just not proceed smoothly after all. The Prime Minister of Poland has just signed the 5G Space Appeal, there is a new anti-5G alliance for Europe, many places in both the US and Europe are refusing to have 5G, astronomers are calling for a halt to 5G from space because they won't be able to see anything for all the satellites, and the NOAA and other bodies are saying that all those satellites will seriously interfere with weather prediction, or make accurate weather prediction virtually impossible. All of which is good, though it saddens me that not one of the nature NGOs has raised a voice in protest against 5G and all the satellites, and they should be--at the very least, it is generally accepted that EMR interferes with migration of birds, insects and other species, so blanketing the earth in many frequencies of EMR is sure to play havoc with migratory species of all sorts in addition to all the other biological damage that EMR causes. Why are all the nature NGOs keeping silent when there is increasing evidence that EMR harms humans? Considering that most of the earth's species are far smaller than us, hence more vulnerable, and considering that we know without any doubt that insects especially are vanishing at a rate of knots, one would think that the nature NGOs would be in favor of the precautionary principle. Their united silence on the issue of EMR, 5G, and 5G from space speaks volumes for their true loyalties. From small, truly committed groups of individuals they have all grown into gigantic organizations whose main aim is less saving nature than self-perpetuation. In any case it is odd, given the general outcry of concern about the effects of 5G, that they are saying nothing.

https://techcrunch.com/2019/06/05/as...ering-the-sky/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...8fb_story.html

http://www.stopsmartmetersbc.com/wp-...ly-01-2019.pdf

https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/06...al-to-stop-5g/

https://hechingerreport.org/research...ts-in-schools/
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Old Saturday 15th June 2019, 18:01   #1685
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. . .Why are all the nature NGOs keeping silent when there is increasing evidence that EMR harms humans? Considering that most of the earth's species are far smaller than us, hence more vulnerable, and considering that we know without any doubt that insects especially are vanishing at a rate of knots, one would think that the nature NGOs would be in favor of the precautionary principle. Their united silence on the issue of EMR, 5G, and 5G from space speaks volumes for their true loyalties. From small, truly committed groups of individuals they have all grown into gigantic organizations whose main aim is less saving nature than self-perpetuation. In any case it is odd, given the general outcry of concern about the effects of 5G, that they are saying nothing.
The argumentum ad hominem on a pogo stick!
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Old Saturday 15th June 2019, 18:58   #1686
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OP: Do you really understand what you are posting?

The Starlink satellite network is not "5G from space". Is not beaming 5G signals to phones. It is a communications network sending data of all kinds around the globe, it will be used for the Internet whatever your connection. If you are plugged in with a wire or connecting wirelessly with 3G, 4G or 5G your data may well go via Starlink, or via a fibre optic cable or via geostationary satellites, you will have no choice or say in the matter.

There is a good video explaining what it is and what it does here, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giQ8xEWjnBs

The Washington Post link was nothing to do with EMR.
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Old Saturday 15th June 2019, 20:59   #1687
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Mono,

The Starlink video is quite interesting and informative.

However, since I can't find it, would you please indicate on which post Diana made reference to Starlink.

Thanks,
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Old Sunday 16th June 2019, 00:49   #1688
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Hey Diana,

NYT and WaPo articles are behind a paywall for non-subscribers, at least in the US. Unless it's possible to download a PDF of the article and post it as an attachment, therefore, any discussion about it is necessarily limited to subscribers—which in some cases is tantamount to an echo chamber. Book citations can be similar, so I usually attach a PDF of the page or section under discussion.

Just a simple request.
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Old Sunday 16th June 2019, 01:49   #1689
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by elkcub View Post
Hey Diana,

NYT and WaPo articles are behind a paywall for non-subscribers, at least in the US. Unless it's possible to download a PDF of the article and post it as an attachment, therefore, any discussion about it is necessarily limited to subscribers—which in some cases is tantamount to an echo chamber. Book citations can be similar, so I usually attach a PDF of the page or section under discussion.

Just a simple request.
Thanks,
Ed
Hi Ed,

I was able to view the WaPo article, but can't make a pdf on this device. Even I run into view limits per month (with NYT anyway). The gist of it was that use of automated navigation assistance daily results in atrophy / functioning changes of the hippocampus / prefrontal cortex ...... (as opposed to old skool London taxi drivers with hard won mental maps who have brains the size of the Martians from the movie "When Mars Attacks!" :)

Here is the source research published in the journal Nature:
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms14652

Agree with yourself that a pdf of the WaPo article would be useful, and also agree with Mono that it's nothing to do with EMR.

P.S. As an anecdotal aside, I have encountered a few 'spatially disoriented' older folk on my shuttle bus trips lately, and after a brief chat none of them would have ever used Navmans, TomToms, or Smartphones to get around, so the cause of vagueness lay elsewhere ....



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Old Sunday 16th June 2019, 08:54   #1690
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Originally Posted by Chosun Juan View Post
Hi Ed,

I was able to view the WaPo article, but can't make a pdf on this device. Even I run into view limits per month (with NYT anyway). The gist of it was that use of automated navigation assistance daily results in atrophy / functioning changes of the hippocampus / prefrontal cortex ...... (as opposed to old skool London taxi drivers with hard won mental maps who have brains the size of the Martians from the movie "When Mars Attacks!" :)

Here is the source research published in the journal Nature:
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms14652

Agree with yourself that a pdf of the WaPo article would be useful, and also agree with Mono that it's nothing to do with EMR.

P.S. As an anecdotal aside, I have encountered a few 'spatially disoriented' older folk on my shuttle bus trips lately, and after a brief chat none of them would have ever used Navmans, TomToms, or Smartphones to get around, so the cause of vagueness lay elsewhere ....

Chosun
Thanks, Chosun.

From the Nature website, I downloaded the article in PDF form (attached). I've skimmed it once and will take a more detailed look tomorrow, but so far nothing suggests the conclusion that "... use of automated navigation assistance daily results in atrophy/functioning changes of the hippocampus/prefrontal cortex ..." These guys are trying to figure out where various activities take place in the brain, after all.

Still, wish I had a PDF of the WaPo article available for comparison, and perhaps Diana could also state her purpose in posting the link. Frankly, at this point, I can't help wondering whether the WaPo science writer was summarizing the content of the article (which is esoteric, to say the least), or giving it simplified meaning.

Ed
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Old Sunday 16th June 2019, 17:28   #1691
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The satellites that are being castigated in post 1684 are the Starlink satellites, and the competing network using the same principle that Jeff Bezos is proposing to put up. Although the Bezos network is not nearly as advanced in development.

Edit; the Bezos network is called Project Kuiper. https://www.amazon.jobs/en/teams/projectkuiper

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Old Sunday 16th June 2019, 21:20   #1692
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The satellites that are being castigated in post 1684 are the Starlink satellites, and the competing network using the same principle that Jeff Bezos is proposing to put up. Although the Bezos network is not nearly as advanced in development.

Edit; the Bezos network is called Project Kuiper. https://www.amazon.jobs/en/teams/projectkuiper
Whatever it is that you think Diana was saying, it certainly did not involve 'castigating' the Starlink or Kuiper satellites. What is clear, however, is that such satellite systems will provide an important and necessary infrastructure for 5G implementation.

BTW. Since you mentioned that the WaPo article has nothing to do with EMR, which looks to be correct, could you provide a PDF of the article or even screenshots?

Thanks,
Ed
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Old Monday 17th June 2019, 00:17   #1693
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Well, I guess a little persistence pays off sometimes. In this case, Democratic Underground.com posted the attached WaPo article (for some strange reason). My worst suspicions are immediately vindicated, no doubt because my hippocampus and prefrontal cortex have built a predictive neural map from past newspaper exposures.

First and foremost, there is NOTHING in the original research that leads to the conclusion that GPS (not EMR) is "...ruining your brain." That's a typical science writer's fantastical exaggeration designed to make a story out of nothing; a silk purse from a sow's ear; philosophically, Bullshitting.

Ed
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Old Monday 17th June 2019, 16:37   #1694
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Crazed Welsh gamekeepers, their brains fried by EMR, go on killing spree. . ..

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-48624954
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Old Monday 17th June 2019, 20:38   #1695
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Quote:
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Hi Ed,

I was able to view the WaPo article, but can't make a pdf on this device. Even I run into view limits per month (with NYT anyway). The gist of it was that use of automated navigation assistance daily results in atrophy / functioning changes of the hippocampus / prefrontal cortex ...... (as opposed to old skool London taxi drivers with hard won mental maps who have brains the size of the Martians from the movie "When Mars Attacks!" :)

Here is the source research published in the journal Nature:
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms14652

Agree with yourself that a pdf of the WaPo article would be useful, and also agree with Mono that it's nothing to do with EMR.

P.S. As an anecdotal aside, I have encountered a few 'spatially disoriented' older folk on my shuttle bus trips lately, and after a brief chat none of them would have ever used Navmans, TomToms, or Smartphones to get around, so the cause of vagueness lay elsewhere ....

Chosun
Chosun,

Thanks for the help. The Nature link allowed direct access to the original article.

Ed
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Old Monday 17th June 2019, 21:14   #1696
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It's not "spatially disoriented," it's "directionally challenged."

The affliction affects young and old. I've been suffering from that since before GPS was a thing, and way before it was useful on cellular phones.

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Old Monday 17th June 2019, 21:46   #1697
Chosun Juan
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I'm not sure I follow the difference (unless it's something like what I say to my mum - "you're not so much vertically challenged, as horizontally unencumbered ! haha but that's being super cheeky ! :)

The 'spatial disorientation' these folks (mid 80's at a guess) encountered was as much due to completely alien landmarks (skyscrapers offering no street level human scale or readily distinguishable differentiating features) as it was general route mapping and 'bearings' during the course of that. They would have grown up with far more people scaled buildings - maybe 4 or 5 storey's max (in that area) ..... not 40 or 50 !

Personally I thought good on them for getting out of their comfort zones and having a day trip. I think they averaged ~1&1/2 circuits of the 10min shuttle route ...... except the deaf as a post gent. He caused the bus driver to sit there through two traffic light changes while he convinced the gent to return to his seat so that he could continue to drive according to passenger safety rules. He may still be going round and round ! though I didn't see him yesterday





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Old Wednesday 19th June 2019, 10:01   #1698
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@ Ed, all My purpose in posting the WaPo article was not to make a point about EMR, but that I saw a link between what it was saying and the Hechinger Report article on how use of wireless/digital devices at schools is affecting performance--i.e., too much reliance on computers to do things that the brain ought to be doing is ultimately not good. The brain, like a muscle, has to be used or it atrophies. I remember Chosun asking me if I knew how much a smartphone was capable of doing, and it seemed to me then, as it does now, that a computer of any sort is really only capable of doing what you understand how to do--and if you don't know how to do it yourself, letting a machine think for you is like letting someone else think for you--never a good idea. I didn't realize you couldn't see the WaPo article as I was able to read it by shutting off my adblocker temporarily. I have no idea how to make a PDF from a web source but it would be very useful to learn to do that.

Not having seen the original research (thanks, Chosun) the link I posited between the two articles may not hold; I only had a quick scan of the research paper but I saw no mention of GPS. However, orientating oneself in a landscape is an acquired skill, so I imagine that "use it or lose it" would apply. On our last trip to northern Greece, we missed a road sign on our way to Prespa and got temporarily lost. While we were stopped by the side of the road to read our rather dated map, a police car halted and asked if they could help. What GPS did we want? We didn't have a clue, and the very question struck us as odd. And we didn't want the new highway (not on our map)--we wanted to avoid it. Eventually the police buzzed off and I located the next village on the map; we got to Prespa just fine without a computer linked to a satellite telling us where to turn and saw some nice scenery we would have missed otherwise. I LIKE maps. They seem so full of possibilities, and a robot-voice coming out of a box on the dash removes all possibility of chance discovery.

In any case, with research showing that computers/tablets/Wi-Fi NOT really helping children become better educated but rather retarding their educational development, and with the rise in neurodegenerative diseases like Alzheimer's and early-onset dementia which have been linked to EMR (see below) it seems to me that two things are happening: people are hooked on, and over-reliant on, devices and not using their brains, which are atrophying, and EMR is causing or helping to cause neurodegenerative disorders.

Some new research has just come out concerning the effects of EMR and neurological disorders/neurological deaths. Here is a summary, with the links:

The number of people suffering from neurological disabilities and deaths is increasing rapidly in the Western World, and seems to be associated with environmental pollutants like wireless radiation.

Are rises in Electro-Magnetic Field in the human environment, interacting with multiple environmental pollutions, the tripping point for increases in neurological deaths in the Western World?
We hypothesise that over the last 25 years increases in background Electro-Magnetic-Fields within the human environment, impacting upon the extant and rising multiple interactive-environmental pollutants is the Tipping Point for the accelerating increases in neurological deaths in the Western world...For example, impacting on rising problems of air pollution, on what has been described as the neuro-inflammation hypothesis ... whilst increased background of EMF are increasingly linked to both neurodegenerative disease and leukaemia, both associated with oxidative stress....

Neurological diseases have exploded in the last 25 years, confirmed by epidemiological data. UK epidemiologist Colin Pritchard et al published 2 studies - one in 2015 http://surgicalneurologyint.com/surg...se-for-concern and one recently in 2019 https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...06987719300040 - that showed that deaths due to neurological diseases like Alzheimer's and dementia were skyrocketing in 21 Western countries, with the increases in the United States being particularly acute. The 2015 study found that people were developing dementia a decade earlier compared to 20 years ago (2010 vs. 1990) and that it was becoming regularly diagnosed in people in their late 40s, with death rates from early onset dementia soaring....

The 2015 study found that deaths caused by neurological disease had risen significantly in adults aged 55 to 74 and more than doubled in the over-75 population overall in 21 countries, with the highest neurological disease death rates in Finland and USA. But the rate of increase for the USA was much worse, where neurological deaths in men aged over 75 have nearly tripled and in women increased more than fivefold in 2010 compared to over 20 years ago in 1989-1991 Back in 1989-1991, USA used to be ranked #17 for neurological deaths in the age 55-74 group and #8 for the age >75 group, but starting in 2010, USA increased to the rank of #2 in both age groups. “The rate of increase in such a short time suggested a silent or even a hidden epidemic, in which environmental factors must play a major part, not just aging.” The environmental factors cited included chemical pollution and increased background electromagnetic fields (which includes wireless radiation).

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...06987719300040
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Old Wednesday 19th June 2019, 14:56   #1699
Chosun Juan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple Heron View Post
@ Ed, all My purpose in posting the WaPo article was not to make a point about EMR, but that I saw a link between what it was saying and the Hechinger Report article on how use of wireless/digital devices at schools is affecting performance--i.e., too much reliance on computers to do things that the brain ought to be doing is ultimately not good. The brain, like a muscle, has to be used or it atrophies. I remember Chosun asking me if I knew how much a smartphone was capable of doing, and it seemed to me then, as it does now, that a computer of any sort is really only capable of doing what you understand how to do--and if you don't know how to do it yourself, letting a machine think for you is like letting someone else think for you--never a good idea....Not having seen the original research (thanks, Chosun) the link I posited between the two articles may not hold; I only had a quick scan of the research paper but I saw no mention of GPS. However, orientating oneself in a landscape is an acquired skill, so I imagine that "use it or lose it" would apply......
I only quickly skimmed that source research (so much so that I only spent a few seconds summarizing for Ed, not realizing if the areas of brain involved were merely being identified, or proven by the numbers, as the WaPo article seemed to state) so I am not sure if (or with how much detail) they outlined the flipside idea.

That is ...... for as much inactivity that 'automating' certain thought processes causes, it seems logical to me that there would also be an increase in the same (at different times) or other parts of the brain related to setting up and using the technology - hooking up, initializing, starting up, operating the UI (menu pathways etc), etc.

"Use it or lose it" may well apply - hence why 8 year olds are great at setting up DVD's and 10 year olds run rings around 'apps' while some adults struggle beyond "have you tried turning it off and back on again" ! :)

When so called 'expert' systems started to filter into engineering practice, along with rudimentary spreadsheets, and 'office' computing in the late 80's, it still took quite a skill and background to operate it. I would have loved if advanced calculus and finite element stress analysis could have been replaced by the push of a button by the time I got there - alas it was still about as hard as trying to learn alien technology, and our Dynamics of Mechanical Systems class found our Professor to be on such a different plane that we had trouble believing he was human !

I also think it's a very long bow to link any or all of the things you mentioned causatively to diseases like Alzheimers etc.

What is the quantum and baseline for dementia "becoming regularly diagnosed in people in their late 40s," .... ? Any significant numbers are going to make a lot of folks reading this rather pressed for time !





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Old Friday 21st June 2019, 20:47   #1700
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[email protected] Ed, all My purpose in posting the WaPo article was not to make a point about EMR, but that I saw a link between what it was saying and the Hechinger Report article on how use of wireless/digital devices at schools is affecting performance--i.e., too much reliance on computers to do things that the brain ought to be doing is ultimately not good. The brain, like a muscle, has to be used or it atrophies. I remember Chosun asking me if I knew how much a smartphone was capable of doing, and it seemed to me then, as it does now, that a computer of any sort is really only capable of doing what you understand how to do--and if you don't know how to do it yourself, letting a machine think for you is like letting someone else think for you--never a good idea. I didn't realize you couldn't see the WaPo article as I was able to read it by shutting off my adblocker temporarily. I have no idea how to make a PDF from a web source but it would be very useful to learn to do that.
Sorry, I didn't pick up on a connection to the Hechinger Report. However, in all candor, I have serious doubts about the brain being like a muscle that needs exercise to avoid atrophy. I've yet to encounter a person who lets a computer do their thinking, — although the same can not be said about the media.

Ed
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