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Habicht 8x30 vs new CL companon 8x30 B

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Old Wednesday 3rd April 2019, 02:43   #51
ceasar
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Originally Posted by MandoBear View Post
The difference is that you can do something useful with a piece of string...

Personally, I would be very surprised if Swarovski didn't use some kind of ED glass in the new CL Companion. Certainly cost can't be a reason, given that Nikon use it in their 260 Monarch 7 8x30s. And whilst Swarovski's ED glass might be somewhat more expensive, I can't think they wouldn't be able to provide it in a binocular with an 830 street price. Clearly, though, the use (or not) of ED glass in the objective lenses is but one part of the optical path, and the design of the oculars also has a critical role to play.
Mando Bear,

Regarding the "design of the oculars:" Since its introduction the oculars on the new CL Companion 8/10x30B have been a subject of discussion.

They are 'rumored' (should we say?) to have an "Optical Box" that allows the users to place their eyes closer or further from the ocular while using the binocular, much like people aiming a rifle with a scope on it can place their eyes closer or further back.

I know from personal use of my own CL Companion 8x30B that I can place the eye cups up against my Brow Ridge or back further into my eye sockets without having any problems like blackouts using it. When I use other binoculars I have to brace them on my brow ridge to get the proper eye relief, with the single exception of my Pentax 9x32.

Bob

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Old Wednesday 3rd April 2019, 07:12   #52
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Just because an issue is the biggest issue it doesn't mean its a big issue.

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Old Wednesday 3rd April 2019, 11:50   #53
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Bob,
I'm familiar with the "optical box" concept used on the new CL - I have a pair, and I've also used rifle-scopes which, necessarily, employ a generous eye-relief. In use, I find the new CL to provide a very easy view, perhaps lacking the absolute snap and sparkle of my ELs, but nonetheless very good for an instrument of that size and price. Personally, I haven't been troubled by chromatic aberration in the view through them - I wouldn't have purchased them if that had been the case.

My comment about ocular design wasn't so much about the "optical box" on the CLs, but more general, about the role the ocular can play in introducing its own aberrations, or potentially working with the design of the objective as a complete optical system. Unlike an astonomical telescope where it's practice to swap out eyepieces regularly, in a binocular the objectives and oculars can be designed to work together.

Michael
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Old Wednesday 3rd April 2019, 13:00   #54
ceasar
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Bob,
I'm familiar with the "optical box" concept used on the new CL - I have a pair, and I've also used rifle-scopes which, necessarily, employ a generous eye-relief. In use, I find the new CL to provide a very easy view, perhaps lacking the absolute snap and sparkle of my ELs, but nonetheless very good for an instrument of that size and price. Personally, I haven't been troubled by chromatic aberration in the view through them - I wouldn't have purchased them if that had been the case.

My comment about ocular design wasn't so much about the "optical box" on the CLs, but more general, about the role the ocular can play in introducing its own aberrations, or potentially working with the design of the objective as a complete optical system. Unlike an astonomical telescope where it's practice to swap out eyepieces regularly, in a binocular the objectives and oculars can be designed to work together.

Michael
Thanks for your clarification Michael. CA is a difficult subject to focus on!
(Lousy pun intended)

Bob
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Old Wednesday 3rd April 2019, 13:04   #55
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Just because an issue is the biggest issue it doesn't mean its a big issue.

Lee
Wise words indeed Lee!

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Old Wednesday 3rd April 2019, 13:42   #56
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Just because an issue is the biggest issue it doesn't mean its a big issue.

Lee
To those not sensitive to CA, it's never going to be an issue. To those that are, it's genuine.
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Old Wednesday 3rd April 2019, 16:40   #57
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To those not sensitive to CA, it's never going to be an issue. To those that are, it's genuine.
I accept that James.

I was actually replying to Range who said: 'Actually CA is the single biggest issue of CL series', although he hasn't really explained how a big a problem this is for him and I don't recall new CL being called out for poor CA control before. Should have made that more clear.

Lee
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Old Thursday 4th April 2019, 00:22   #58
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Personally I am not particularly concerned about CA, but I can perceive different levels of CA control.
CL is near color free at the center but mediocre at pheriperal.
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Old Thursday 4th April 2019, 06:11   #59
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Personally I am not particularly concerned about CA, but I can perceive different levels of CA control.
CL is near color free at the center but mediocre at pheriperal.
Thanks for clarifying that, Range.

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Old Wednesday 10th April 2019, 13:18   #60
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A quick thought: I've got both the CL 10x30 (new version) and a fairly recent Habicht 10x40.

Of course the CL is in many ways much easier to use in the field, it has a convenient size, a decent focuser and pretty good image quality up to the edges of the field of view. No problems with CA, but then I'm not susceptible to CA anyway. Once you set it up for your eyes the glare is manageable although nowhere near as well surpressed as in a few other binoculars. And, an important consideration IMO, it's light. Very light, actually. As much as I like the 10x50s, I can't imagine carrying on on long hikes. No way. In short: The CL for many purposes almost ideal, e.g. on long hikes in the mountains when I don't want to carry a scope+tripod.

However, the Habicht 10x40, one of the true dinosaurs of the binocular world with a construction dating back well over half a century, albeit with up-to-date coatings, does have a better image in the centre of the field of view. Higher contrast, higher transmission, better resolution ("sharpness"), better colour reproduction, less glare. That's to my eyes quite obvious even handheld, when you put both binoculars on a tripod it becomes very obvious. Talk about the porro advantage.

Anyhow, on my next long trip in the summer I'll once again take the CL (of course) - but I'll probably put the Habicht in the bag as well, just for grins. The one 8x32/10x32 I'm waiting for impatiently to replace the CL still won't be on the market by then, I'm afraid ...

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Old Tuesday 23rd April 2019, 15:07   #61
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Hello,

I purchased my first "real" binocular a few months ago. My main intention was to buy a high quality lightweight binocular, which will hopefully last me a lifetime and is well suited for general wildlife and nature observation on hiking and trekking tours.

I do enjoy nice optics but I am by far not as knowledgeable as so many other members here, so all statements below are only based on my own impressions.

Before purchasing a new bin I did a lot of research and ended up comparing the new CL Companion 8x30, the Habicht 8x30, and the Zeiss Victory Pocket 8x25 at a local retailer and guess what...I ended up buying the Habicht.

I dismissed the the Zeiss quite fast despite its brillant optics. Main reason was the build quality which did not convince me at all. Two well used samples I was able to try had both a very loose hinge and focus know. Maybe it was simply bad luck as many users here on BF are very enthusiastic about the Victory Pocket, but it somehow did not feel right for me to spend a considerable amount of money on it after trying two binos which both showed the same quality issues.

The CL 8x30 seems to be an outstanding binocular and its optical quality and diminutive size are impressive and I was tempted purchasing this one.

However, different reviews and BF threads on the Habicht somehow made me curious so I ended up testing this one as well. What shall I say ... its center sharpness, the 3D view, and the build quality simply amazed me. I already had the luck to observe some Chamois several times during sunrise here in the Swiss alps and it was a revelation. I did not feel as an observer dozens of metres away, but like standing midst among them. While observing wildlife and enjoying landscapes, the image simply feels alive.

As already mentioned by other users, the Habicht shows some glare in certain lighting situations, but it has never obstructed my view and is thus not a big issue for me. Moreover, I was able to reduce the glare by unscrewing the original eyecups and attach some Chinese microscope eyecups as discussed in the following thread:

https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=367763

The focus is rather stiff but loosens up after some time and works perfect for me. However, I can imagine that the focus might be an issue for serious birders.

When it comes to edge sharpness, the CL 8x30 is superior to the Habicht, but this is not of relevance for me while using the binoculars out in the field, as the sweet spot of the Habicht is more than big enough for me. I did not notice any significant CA in both models.

For me purchasing the Habicht was the right decision and I look forward to using it on my planned trekking trips in Norway this summer.

(English is not my mother tongue, so I apologise for any mistakes)
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Old Tuesday 23rd April 2019, 20:46   #62
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To those not sensitive to CA, it's never going to be an issue. To those that are, it's genuine.
Indeed. I've seen a Leica bin that had a lot of it. Horrible. But another sample of the same model didn't have any (whereupon I bought it). It's not obvious that CA is a design issue rather than a sample-by-sample variation.

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Old Monday 29th April 2019, 23:05   #63
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Indeed. I've seen a Leica bin that had a lot of it. Horrible. But another sample of the same model didn't have any (whereupon I bought it). It's not obvious that CA is a design issue rather than a sample-by-sample variation.

Edmund
Edmund:

CA is a design issue and Leica does have more than others, some of this
comes with a more compact design that includes a shorter focal length.

I don't think it varies much between examples.

Now other things can vary, such as individual sharpness between barrels, smoothness of focus and more.

I suppose we all see things differently.

Jerry
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