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Public Liability Insurance (1 Viewer)

R

russkie

Well-known member
Can anyone give advice please on the situation regarding Insurance required for a party of birders going on an organised field trip

scenario 1 - suppose a trip is organised by an individual not within the auspices of an officail bird club -maybe 15 individuals in a minibus - is there a requirement for PLI to be taken out or can each individual sign a disclaimer, absolving the organiser from blame in case of injury or accident not covered by a motor claim?

scenario 2 - if a trip was organised by a local bird club would they have to have a PLI policy in place?

there must be bird clubs around the country who have trips out - how do they go about it please.

Any constructive feedback welcomed.

many thanks
Nigel
 
I absolutely hate insurance companies, and moreso the binds that they tie us in, but I think your best bet would be to ring up [insert nationally reknowned insurer here] and ask. Then ask another one.

I do think that is your best option, because, even if an insurance expert answered your post, I don't their advice would be binding.
 
When I was a leader of a Wildlife Explorer group, public liability insurance was organised through the RSPB. As long as the event/trip was under the auspices of the RSPB and did not contavene their guidlines then you were covered. So for an organised trip with a club, the club has the responsibilty to ensure adequate insurance cover. If an RSPB group then I believe the insurance will be okay, for other groups the situation would need clarification. As Birdman says get some quotes.
For the private individual taking out a party of birdwatchers my advice is don't, you WILL need public liability insurance and the premium will probably be more than you could ask in fees for the trip. I have to have PLI for my job as a contact lens optician, not only through my employer but also in my own name. The premium to purchase this as a one off was in the region of £200.00 per annum, through my professional association the premium dropped to approx £100.00 per annum. There is growing tendency to resort to litigation immediately, even if the fault is the individuals and not that of the organiser, not to have PLI is dangerous
 
Just to pick up on Russkies other point- disclaimers are not effective in relation to liability for personal injury or death. So it comes down to insurance.
 
russkie said:
Can anyone give advice please on the situation regarding Insurance required for a party of birders going on an organised field trip

scenario 1 - suppose a trip is organised by an individual not within the auspices of an officail bird club -maybe 15 individuals in a minibus - is there a requirement for PLI to be taken out or can each individual sign a disclaimer, absolving the organiser from blame in case of injury or accident not covered by a motor claim?

scenario 2 - if a trip was organised by a local bird club would they have to have a PLI policy in place?

there must be bird clubs around the country who have trips out - how do they go about it please.

Any constructive feedback welcomed.

many thanks
Nigel
Click to expand...

I know that quite a few tour companies insist in writing that the "person attending the holiday must take out their own full insurance as the company will not be liable for any loss or injury". This seems to suffice for them.

As "leader" of a group there is always the risk of somebody suing you if an accident happened and you were shown to have been negligent, so yes it might be worth contacting a few insurance companies to see what's available unless you're fine taking the risk. Commercial companies' guides certainly have to have PLI.

JP
 
first of all thanks for your comments

ok then lets say that i hire a minibus in my name with full insurance and just get together a group of friends or associates to do a little birding in the northeast - everyone contributes to the cost of the hire and fuel - no profit is made - so in effect its just like a group of mates going out in a hired vehicle.
question is -- would i have to take out a policy in case things went wrong or can it be the same as us sharing someones car for the day?

i cant really see the difference - there is no business and no leader - just someones name on the hire document. it would be a shame if we cant go out on day trips for fear of being sued.

cheers
Nigel
 
russkie said:
first of all thanks for your comments

ok then lets say that i hire a minibus in my name with full insurance and just get together a group of friends or associates to do a little birding in the northeast - everyone contributes to the cost of the hire and fuel - no profit is made - so in effect its just like a group of mates going out in a hired vehicle.
question is -- would i have to take out a policy in case things went wrong or can it be the same as us sharing someones car for the day?

i cant really see the difference - there is no business and no leader - just someones name on the hire document. it would be a shame if we cant go out on day trips for fear of being sued.

cheers
Nigel
Click to expand...

I think you would be ok under this scenario and the occupants of the vehicle would be covered under insurance.

Im glad you started this thread because I have took a few folk out birding under the auspices of bird guide and want to eventually have my own business in eco-tourism. I think a lot of tour companies and bird guides ask their clients to sign a disclaimer and make sure they take out their own private travel insurance. If you were negligent say whilst driving there isnt anything to stop anybody suing you whether you have PLI or not especially over here where people will sue you for stepping on their toes!

LAWYERS, INSURANCE Co's = :C
 
white-back said:
Just to pick up on Russkies other point- disclaimers are not effective in relation to liability for personal injury or death. So it comes down to insurance.
Click to expand...

I think that this is not quite correct - disclaimers are effective in realtion to personal injury or death. The thing that cannot be disclaimed is the above if they are a result of negligence on the part of the trip leader.

martin
 
Id have thought any insurance cover would be invalidated anyway if "you" were negligent, reckless or hadnt shown reasonableness....?
SE
 
russkie said:
the point is -just because i hire the vehicle, does that make me trip leader ????????
Click to expand...

No I don't think so. I think you would only need to worry about PLI if the trip were officially organised and advertised where a clear statement was made that you were leading it.....especially if it were for profit.

JP
 
StevieEvans said:
Id have thought any insurance cover would be invalidated anyway if "you" were negligent, reckless or hadnt shown reasonableness....?
SE
Click to expand...

This is completely wrong. PLI is there to indemnify you against the possibility of being sued if your negligence causes loss, personal injury or death. It's the same as motor insurance in this respect. If you crash your car through negligence it doesn't mean that your insurance company will refuse to pay out any claims that are made.

martin
 
Governing Body?

In many sports and pastimes it is the governing body which arranges specific cover with an approved insurer based on its members exact requirements. It is then possible for either individuals and/or groups to 'tap in' to a standard policy, often at a discounted rate, safe in the knowledge that it will provide all the cover required should a claim arise.

As I see it, the snag with birding is that it doesn't have a governing body!

Anthony
 
martin kitching said:
This is completely wrong. PLI is there to indemnify you against the possibility of being sued if your negligence causes loss, personal injury or death. It's the same as motor insurance in this respect. If you crash your car through negligence it doesn't mean that your insurance company will refuse to pay out any claims that are made.

martin
Click to expand...

Thank you, my thought was wrong.
Maybe it would be helpfull (to russkie) if you gave him some details of the insurance you take out for your pelagic trips...?
SE
 
If you are organising the trip privately (for a groups of friends, say) than PLI should not be an issue as you will be insured for the minibus through the hiring documentation and you will be in effect a group of individuals, so there is no leader.
If you are organising the event professionally, or that is to say you are making profit from it, or you have advertised fro participation, than yes PLI will play a part and you will have to get cover for yourself privately, or use the cover of an organisation you are arranging the event through.
There really is no such thing as a disclaimer. in fact, sometimes the act of wirting a disclaimer declares neglegence as it shows you were aware of dangers but did not put the correct arrangements in place (risk assessments) to negate these dangers.
In short - best if you're just taking a group of friends out together for a spot of group birding. Otherwise, speak to an insurer.
So - the big question is, what do you mean by "Organised"?
James
 
Last edited:
thanks James

what we were planning to do was just getting a few birders who live locally and all going out in a minibus to local birding spots. nothing official , just a way that we can enjoy each others company and do some birding together without having to worry about car share etc.
all share petrol and hire costs , and maybe have a pub lunch or something with the driver [me !] drinking soft drinks.

sounds safe enufff doesnt it ?
then youll all get to know what happens on here and people can pm me if they want to be considered for the next outing!
 
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