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What binoculars do you think have the most WOW factor! (1 Viewer)

Dear Henry,
You asked in the link how the Elite 10 x 42P focusses.
It focusses via a large aperture multicoated element behind the objective.
As you focus closer the separation of the objective and focussing element closes, i.e. the gap narrows.
There are quite a few knife edge baffles but I don't see how they can be optimum for every focussed distance.
I still cannot make out whether the objectives are triplets or doublets or even 4 element.

Elsewhere in the link it say that the eyepiece end moves, after partial dismantling.
If so it means both the objective end and the eyepiece end moves.
I have not heard of such an arrangement but it could exist.

The focussing travel of the inner lens is quite large for a close focus of 5 metres, 16 ft for me.
So it may be quite a weak element, although this is a guess on my part.
 
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Binastro,

That description fits the behavior of a positive focusing element, a negative element would move in the opposite direction. It wouldn't make any sense for the eyepiece field group to move simultaneously, so I think this almost certainly represents a change in the focuser design from the binocular Renze disassembled.

Henry
 
[email protected] said:
I really appreciate your input here Steve. I am also an amateur astronomer and I know splitting double stars is a good test of on-axis sharpness. I feel sharpness is one of the easier attributes of a binocular to test and one of the most important characteristics that I look for in a binocular. I have found the Nikon SE and EII porro's to be sharper on-axis than even the alpha roofs. I bought a Swarovski 8x30 Habicht so when I get it I will do a comparison between my Nikon 8x32 SE and Nikon 8x30 EII's. It will be called "The battle of best porro's in the world."
Click to expand...
I got the Habicht's 8x30 and I couldn't believe how tight the the focus was! Unusable for birding in my opinion. I didn't think the on-axis resolution was any better then the EII either. In fact in my DVD test the SE and EII were slightly sharper. ER a little short also. Cute binoculars though. But I need to be able to use them for birding. I returned them the same day I got them.
 
Dennis,
Well dang!
I'd like to see the Kowa YF run up against the Nikon Porros. Got $105 to toss at it?
Ron
 
ronh said:
Dennis,
Well dang!
I'd like to see the Kowa YF run up against the Nikon Porros. Got $105 to toss at it?
Ron
Click to expand...
I am with Brock. I feel the Nikon 8x30 EII is the best birding binocular you can buy if you don' t need waterproof. If you need waterproof and tough get a Leica 8x32 Trinovid BN.
 
Ok, I am confused. I thought the SE was the best birding binocular if you don't need waterproof and then it was the EDG 8x32 that was the best if you need a waterproof bino. I usually pride myself on keeping track on your current selection. I do remember reading that you bought an update E II but I didn't realize it displaced the SE as your bin of choice.

Also, when did you get the Trinovid 8x32? I remember your having one at some point...maybe around when you had the Trinovid 7x42?

Whatever happened to the 8x20 Trinovid?
 
I am also confused. I have always looked to Dennis (he's my personal weathervane) for what to buy. I had EIIs, traded up to SEs and felt secure that they were the best. I'm really happy I don't need to buy the Habicht's, but now Dennis seems to have retrenched to the EIIs, and I suddenly feel strange longings. Help us understand why the winds shift so often, Dennis. Help us see!

David
 
FrankD said:
Ok, I am confused. I thought the SE was the best birding binocular if you don't need waterproof and then it was the EDG 8x32 that was the best if you need a waterproof bino. I usually pride myself on keeping track on your current selection. I do remember reading that you bought an update E II but I didn't realize it displaced the SE as your bin of choice.

Also, when did you get the Trinovid 8x32? I remember your having one at some point...maybe around when you had the Trinovid 7x42?

Whatever happened to the 8x20 Trinovid?
Click to expand...
I have the 8x20 Trinovid. That's my compact choice. The SE and EII are a tossup depending how big of a FOV you want. I wouldn't get rid of either one. Lately, I am kind of liking the EII for the big FOV. I prefer the size of the 8x32 Leica Trinovid over the 7x42. The Habicht 8x30's focus is so tight you need to carry a pair of channel lock pliers around with you to focus them and it wasn't even cold outside. They are a JOKE! I couldn't believe how TIGHT the focus is when I took them out of the box. These guys pushing them must have STRONG fingers! Henry is right about your eyelashes getting the objective dirty all the time because of the short ER BUT I could deal with that but I just can't deal with a focus that I can barely turn with BOTH of my fingers on it. They are NOT sharper on-axis than either the SE or EII. That is baloney! The SE and EII are sharper. Quality wise the EII is just as nice as the Habicht and it is a much better BARGAIN at half the price. The only thing the Habicht has going for it is it is cute.
 
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[email protected] said:
I got the Habicht's 8x30 and I couldn't believe how tight the the focus was! Unusable for birding in my opinion. I didn't think the on-axis resolution was any better then the EII either. In fact in my DVD test the SE and EII were slightly sharper. ER a little short also. Cute binoculars though. But I need to be able to use them for birding. I returned them the same day I got them.
Click to expand...

Dennis

I only noticed my Habichts being a little sharper on axis after spending a few nights with them under the stars. I do hope to do some serious resolution testing both naked eye and boosted with some resolution charts in the near future when time permits. Jae from Cloudy Nights has offered me the use of his 8x30 Habicht and I intend to throw it into the mix as well. In the past night time performance splitting difficult doubles has been a good indicator of just how well a bino performs at the bench tripod mounted during daytime resolution testing and I suspect such will be the case again.

I envy your ability to pronounce one binocular sharper based on a cursory DVD case test but forgive me if I'm suspect of your empirical findings...especially considering your penchant for bias. I would think this test would work only in binos with a great difference in optical performance--certainly not the case in the binos being discussed. When I have binos that are very close in optical performance it often takes me day or even weeks to declare a "winner" and obviously if the binos are so close that it takes that long and that much testing to see any minute difference they are both superb. I've known three people who have compared the 8x30 Habicht with the 8x30 EII and their results were different than yours.


Even in premium binos there is minute differences in optical performance among the same model so some 8x30 Habichts will be better than others and some EIIs better than others. If Henry, FrankD, Steve (moreorless) or some of the other forum members compared these two binos and in resolution testing found the EII sharper on axis I would speculate as to why. Is it because my Habicht (and Eriks and Plyscopes) are an anomaly or was the EII being tested better than the norm or was there was some intrinsic difference in the way the binoculars optical properties were assessed. The important point is that I would not question their findings, even those of an empirical nature, because of their credibility. Dennis I find your posts (such as the question posed that originated this thread) very entertaining; however your credibility is lacking and your vacillations are legendary. I have never seen another person change their mind so quickly and so often.


I'm also curious as to where you purchased your Habicht since I want to try a 7x42 Habicht but would hate to return a superb bino merely because of its narrow fov....especially since I knew about the rather restrictive fov before I purchased. Along this same vein of thought to all the forum members that think I extolled the virtues of the Habicht in part hoping Dennis would purchase a Habicht and have a difficult time returning it AND that I would derive some perverse pleasure from this unfortunate chain of events......I would simply say so what.;)


Steve
 
[email protected] said:
I got the Habicht's 8x30 and I couldn't believe how tight the the focus was! Unusable for birding in my opinion. I didn't think the on-axis resolution was any better then the EII either. In fact in my DVD test the SE and EII were slightly sharper. ER a little short also. Cute binoculars though. But I need to be able to use them for birding. I returned them the same day I got them.
Click to expand...

That's useful feedback. I'd been hankering after a Swaro porro for a long time, but if the focusers are that tight, I'd best stay with my trusty Nikon 8x30 EII.

For waterproof and tough I bought a secondhand 1998-vintage Swaro SLC 8x30 WB. The view isn't quite as brilliant as the EII - not quite the Wow Factor - but it's clear and sharp and a more practical bino for bad weather.

I find the 8x30-32 format ideal for general birding.
 
FrankD said:
Ok, I am confused. I thought the SE was the best birding binocular if you don't need waterproof and then it was the EDG 8x32 that was the best if you need a waterproof bino. I usually pride myself on keeping track on your current selection. I do remember reading that you bought an update E II but I didn't realize it displaced the SE as your bin of choice.

Also, when did you get the Trinovid 8x32? I remember your having one at some point...maybe around when you had the Trinovid 7x42?

Whatever happened to the 8x20 Trinovid?
Click to expand...

Some of those binoculars are so- yesterday!

What ever Dennis's new flavor(s) of the month is simply the "best" there is.

He is a love'm and leave'm type of guy. And when he is done with them- he then throws them under the bus and bad mouths his "exes".

- BTW- Porro's in general used to be an ex that were all bad news and old news dinasaurs and according to Dennis were only for "losers" ( my phrase) who could not afford a quality roof.
 
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stephen b said:
Some of those binoculars are so- yesterday!
What ever Dennis's new flavor(s) of the month is simply the "best" there is.
Click to expand...

I am sooooo glad I can always find out what the "best" is and with the opinion - nay, the proclamation - always delivered with such authority and surety that none dare question it. After all, one size fits all, doncha know. I just wish I didn't have to keep checking back so often...
 
steve@37n84w said:
Dennis

I only noticed my Habichts being a little sharper on axis after spending a few nights with them under the stars. I do hope to do some serious resolution testing both naked eye and boosted with some resolution charts in the near future when time permits. Jae from Cloudy Nights has offered me the use of his 8x30 Habicht and I intend to throw it into the mix as well. In the past night time performance splitting difficult doubles has been a good indicator of just how well a bino performs at the bench tripod mounted during daytime resolution testing and I suspect such will be the case again.

I envy your ability to pronounce one binocular sharper based on a cursory DVD case test but forgive me if I'm suspect of your empirical findings...especially considering your penchant for bias. I would think this test would work only in binos with a great difference in optical performance--certainly not the case in the binos being discussed. When I have binos that are very close in optical performance it often takes me day or even weeks to declare a "winner" and obviously if the binos are so close that it takes that long and that much testing to see any minute difference they are both superb. I've known three people who have compared the 8x30 Habicht with the 8x30 EII and their results were different than yours.


Even in premium binos there is minute differences in optical performance among the same model so some 8x30 Habichts will be better than others and some EIIs better than others. If Henry, FrankD, Steve (moreorless) or some of the other forum members compared these two binos and in resolution testing found the EII sharper on axis I would speculate as to why. Is it because my Habicht (and Eriks and Plyscopes) are an anomaly or was the EII being tested better than the norm or was there was some intrinsic difference in the way the binoculars optical properties were assessed. The important point is that I would not question their findings, even those of an empirical nature, because of their credibility. Dennis I find your posts (such as the question posed that originated this thread) very entertaining; however your credibility is lacking and your vacillations are legendary. I have never seen another person change their mind so quickly and so often.


I'm also curious as to where you purchased your Habicht since I want to try a 7x42 Habicht but would hate to return a superb bino merely because of its narrow fov....especially since I knew about the rather restrictive fov before I purchased. Along this same vein of thought to all the forum members that think I extolled the virtues of the Habicht in part hoping Dennis would purchase a Habicht and have a difficult time returning it AND that I would derive some perverse pleasure from this unfortunate chain of events......I would simply say so what.;)


Steve
Click to expand...
You come up with so much stuff that isn't true it amazes me. It is easy to see the Habicht's aren't as sharp looking at a resolution chart or fine print. They are sharper than most roofs I have tested but not as sharp as the SE or EII. i can't see for the life of me how you can extoll the virtues of a Habicht as a birding binocular when it is definitely not true. If the focus was a smidgen tighter on the Habicht you would need a Monkey Wrench to turn it. You must have the grip of an Orangutan to turn the focus on those suckers. They must lubricate the focus with loctite. Your the one whose credibility is lacking! For your information I bought the Habicht's from Proud Papa if you want to get in touch with him. He should get them back tomorrow. Everybody else heed my warning don't take Steve's advice. It cost me $25.00 return shipping! Habicht's suck! They should be discontinued! I recommend the Nikon 8x32 SE or EII and I challenge anyone to not be impressed by them. You are pushing the Habicht and I challenge anyone to not be underimpressed by them. YOU lack credibility.
 
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Dennis,

You are a real peach of a guy. Bet Proud Papa was real happy that he dealt with you- hope after this and your comments below, that PP did not give you free shipping on these Habicht bino's. From your comments posted here- what makes you feel like an entitled bloke? Because you seem to be quite the PITA.

From Dennis: ( post #145 in this thread made 12/1)

"He won't give me any discount and I have to have a discount. I don't pay retail for any binoculars. Too much depreciation. He should at least give me a discount for buying direct from him instead of going through E-bay. He has to pay E-bay 10% when he sells a pair. Heh, Proud Papa I will give you $850.00 shipped for some Habicht's 8x30."
 
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Well, now that you've let that out Dennis, you never once mentioned or asked what the return policy was. You just shipped them back before notifying me. And before dark, so you didn't even get to look at the stars (unless your post office is open after dark). I am going to refund but the cost of shipping from my end will be deducted. As for Ebay, they provide a service and exposure. I have no beef with their system.
 
Besides not looking at any stars, I am SURE that this comment below is false also, I doubt he did any true resolution tests comparing these 3. Unless he is talking about his bogus "DVD" test.

[email protected] said:
......... It is easy to see the Habicht's aren't as sharp looking at a resolution chart or fine print.........
Click to expand...
 
proudpapa56 said:
Well, now that you've let that out Dennis, you never once mentioned or asked what the return policy was. You just shipped them back before notifying me. And before dark, so you didn't even get to look at the stars (unless your post office is open after dark). I am going to refund but the cost of shipping from my end will be deducted. As for Ebay, they provide a service and exposure. I have no beef with their system.
Click to expand...

Papa:

It is too bad you even sold anything to the menace. It has been mentioned
he is a retailers nightmare. Just give it a quick look, and put it back in the box,
and return. That was his plan from the start. Just looking for attention.

Jerry
 
proudpapa56 said:
Well, now that you've let that out Dennis, you never once mentioned or asked what the return policy was. You just shipped them back before notifying me. And before dark, so you didn't even get to look at the stars (unless your post office is open after dark). I am going to refund but the cost of shipping from my end will be deducted. As for Ebay, they provide a service and exposure. I have no beef with their system.
Click to expand...
I will never buy a another pair of binoculars from you again. You should have warned people how tight the focus is on the Habicht's! If I knew they were that tight I would have never bought them in the first place. They are ridiculous! So this mistake cost me $50.00! Everybody be forewarned. If I would have bought them through E-bay I would give negative feedback. You have a two week return policy listed on E-bay so I assume that's what it is. I didn't want the Habicht's for the "Night Sky". Did I say anything about wanting them for Astronomy! I wanted them for birding and the focus is way too tight for birding. Everybody reading this be forewarned if you don't like the binoculars from Proudpapa you are going to pay shipping both ways. Buy from Amazon, Eagle Optics or Europtics. If you are not satisfied they will at least refund the shipping cost one way and Amazon will refund it both ways.
 
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NDhunter said:
Papa:

It is too bad you even sold anything to the menace. It has been mentioned
he is a retailers nightmare. Just give it a quick look, and put it back in the box,
and return. That was his plan from the start. Just looking for attention.

Jerry
Click to expand...
I dare anybody to try the Habicht's and see what they think of the focus. They might work in astronomy because you don't have to change the focus. Try them ND Hunter and see what you think.
 
stephen b said:
Besides not looking at any stars, I am SURE that this comment below is false also, I doubt he did any true resolution tests comparing these 3. Unless he is talking about his bogus "DVD" test.
Click to expand...
Your the bogus tester. Your pushing of the Habicht's cost me $50.00. I will take your reviews with a grain of salt like I should have in the beginning. Even Henry is honest. He didn't recommend them.
 
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