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Car park charge starting for non members of the RSPB reserve of Snettisham in May.

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Old Saturday 17th March 2018, 18:40   #1
IAN JAMES THOMPSON
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Car park charge starting for non members of the RSPB reserve of Snettisham in May.

There is going to be a car park charge for non members of the RSPB reserve Snettisham of approx 2.00 from the beginning of May, of which there are no admission fees at present. The RSPB are starting to charge a car park fee as well for non members at a number of other reserves in the next few months as well of which there are no admission fees at present. I’m pleased the RSPB are starting to charge at more RSPB reserves where there are no admission fees to non members at present. Details in the reserve section of the RSPB website.
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Old Sunday 18th March 2018, 11:37   #2
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There is going to be a car park charge for non members of the RSPB reserve Snettisham of approx 2.00 from the beginning of May, of which there are no admission fees at present. The RSPB are starting to charge a car park fee as well for non members at a number of other reserves in the next few months as well of which there are no admission fees at present. Im pleased the RSPB are starting to charge at more RSPB reserves where there are no admission fees to non members at present. Details in the reserve section of the RSPB website.
Ian.
Presume members will leave their card on dashboard such as at Titchwell now? Not been to Snettisham does it have a visitor center? Suppose it will be a machine if not.
Like you i think this is a good way of raising funds and is in line with what councils etc do.
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Old Sunday 18th March 2018, 11:49   #3
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I think there is a difference about charging for car parks that may be used by non visitors and actually paying to get into a reserve. Where else is proposing to charge?

And is it just a hollow gesture - has the RSPB ever actually enforced such parking charges?
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Old Sunday 18th March 2018, 11:56   #4
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Not been to Snettisham does it have a visitor center? Suppose it will be a machine if not.
No there isn't a visitor centre at Snettisham.
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Old Sunday 18th March 2018, 12:06   #5
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I think there is a difference about charging for car parks that may be used by non visitors and actually paying to get into a reserve. Where else is proposing to charge?

And is it just a hollow gesture - has the RSPB ever actually enforced such parking charges?
There are a number of RSPB reserves going to charge with car park fees. Cant remember them. But I saw those other reserves on the list of reserves on the RSPB website.
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Old Sunday 18th March 2018, 12:25   #6
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I wonder if it will have the same daft pricing scale as Arne: UP TO 2 hours = x-amount, OVER 4 hours = higher x-amount, and no middle ground charge for three hour stays (which is often all you need there) or Up to 4 hours.

As I've mentioned on another thread the RSPB is trying to save in the region of 10M this year, so I guess charging in all car parks is another way of making some extra revenue. I notice too that at this late date in the season there have been very few temporary summer posts advertised, another means of saving money for them, but sadly not delivering to the same standard as previous years.
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Old Sunday 18th March 2018, 12:40   #7
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I wonder if it will have the same daft pricing scale as Arne: UP TO 2 hours = x-amount, OVER 4 hours = higher x-amount, and no middle ground charge for three hour stays.
Three hours is free :)

If you decided to make an issue of it, you might win legally - there is an obligation to ensure pricing is clear, regardless of whether you are a shop or other.
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Old Sunday 18th March 2018, 12:52   #8
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Originally Posted by BimmyB View Post
I wonder if it will have the same daft pricing scale as Arne: UP TO 2 hours = x-amount, OVER 4 hours = higher x-amount, and no middle ground charge for three hour stays (which is often all you need there) or Up to 4 hours.

As I've mentioned on another thread the RSPB is trying to save in the region of 10M this year, so I guess charging in all car parks is another way of making some extra revenue. I notice too that at this late date in the season there have been very few temporary summer posts advertised, another means of saving money for them, but sadly not delivering to the same standard as previous years.
They aren’t charging any admission or car parking charges still at the majority of reserves. Probably those reserves with no admission or car parking charges are the less popular reserves.
Ian.

Last edited by IAN JAMES THOMPSON : Sunday 18th March 2018 at 13:37.
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Old Sunday 18th March 2018, 12:56   #9
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Three hours is free :)

If you decided to make an issue of it, you might win legally - there is an obligation to ensure pricing is clear, regardless of whether you are a shop or other.
Actually, the legal position is that even a shop price is simply an invitation to treat: i.e. even with a price displayed, you can ask for a discount and so on, though good luck with that; but if in doubt I should use the principle of buyer beware. There are shops that don't display prices on goods at all - more expensive jewellers are a good example: if you have to ask, you can't afford it!

Of course, if you are a member of the RSPB, no charge......

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Old Sunday 18th March 2018, 13:26   #10
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Actually, the legal position is that even a shop price is simply an invitation to treat: i.e. even with a price displayed, you can ask for a discount and so on
Agreed, though even in the situation you mention, incorrect pricing would be illegal if it is deemed intentionally misleading (not sure how you would prove this though).

However, in this parking case, it is a different issue - for most products, it is a legal requirement to clearly display pricing information, inclusive of tax, etc.

With the parking (I only presume here this is the same as for retail products, maybe not), the issue is they do not specify a charge for three hours - they do clearly state you must pay for less than 2 hours and do clearly state you must pay for over 4 hours - I do not know if they could legally force you to pay for something (a three hour stay) which they do not specify is payable, even less say how much it should be. They have the legal obligation to state it, not the consumer to guess it.

Better though, just join the RSPB and pay nowt to start with.

Hopefully, the car parks that start charging will allow members of the public to redeem their parking fee at the visitor centre if they join the RSPB - seems a pretty good way to encourage a few more persons to join.
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Old Sunday 18th March 2018, 14:08   #11
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Agreed, though even in the situation you mention, incorrect pricing would be illegal if it is deemed intentionally misleading (not sure how you would prove this though).

However, in this parking case, it is a different issue - for most products, it is a legal requirement to clearly display pricing information, inclusive of tax, etc.

With the parking (I only presume here this is the same as for retail products, maybe not), the issue is they do not specify a charge for three hours - they do clearly state you must pay for less than 2 hours and do clearly state you must pay for over 4 hours - I do not know if they could legally force you to pay for something (a three hour stay) which they do not specify is payable, even less say how much it should be. They have the legal obligation to state it, not the consumer to guess it.

Better though, just join the RSPB and pay nowt to start with.

Hopefully, the car parks that start charging will allow members of the public to redeem their parking fee at the visitor centre if they join the RSPB - seems a pretty good way to encourage a few more persons to join.
I’ve just checked the latest charges for the Arne car park for non members of the RSPB and it seems there is just 1 price for cars in the Arne car park for non members now, for however long you stay at Arne and that now appears to be 5.00. I think that is an increase as well for parking all day at Arne. Actually I have noticed as well there is a slight increase in admission charges at a number of RSPB reserves where they charge for each individual who is not a member of the RSPB as well as those reserves that charge a car park fee.
Ian.
Ian.

Last edited by IAN JAMES THOMPSON : Sunday 18th March 2018 at 14:13.
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Old Sunday 18th March 2018, 14:13   #12
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Old Tuesday 27th March 2018, 16:37   #13
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There seems to be a number of RSPB reserves as well increasing there car park fees as well for non members. For example The Lodge reserve is increasing its car park fee for non members from April 1st and the car park charge will be increasing from 5.00 to 6.00 per car for non members.
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Old Wednesday 28th March 2018, 11:25   #14
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Originally Posted by Farnboro John View Post
Actually, the legal position is that even a shop price is simply an invitation to treat: i.e. even with a price displayed, you can ask for a discount and so on, though good luck with that; but if in doubt I should use the principle of buyer beware. There are shops that don't display prices on goods at all - more expensive jewellers are a good example: if you have to ask, you can't afford it!

Of course, if you are a member of the RSPB, no charge......

John
In the offer and acceptance in U.K law the offer is made by the buyer - the seller or shop can then accept that offer or not. You take a radio to the counter with a ticket price of 10 you can offer what you like - the shop can then agree or not to that offer.

If there was a ticket error the shop can decline. If however it was plastered all over the shop window at a price the shop would find it difficult to argue there was an error...

In France I think the offer acceptance is the other way round in the ticket price is the offer and can be enforced...
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Old Thursday 29th March 2018, 09:13   #15
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All this discussion seems rather pointless to me. A non member is using a facility that is owned and maintained by the owner, usually on private land. If they don't want to pay a charge for that advantageous parking then they can decline and go elsewhere or become a member and benefit - helping conservation or the charity is secondary. I encountered dozens of NWT members who only wanted to use the car park at Holme Dunes for access to the beach during summer. Inevitably they screeched up in a people carrier and emptied out half a dozen occupants plus picnic paraphernalia.....not interested in the nature reserve. Same at Cley Beach car park. Fees were no different to those charged by the various council owned and private land owners all along the North Norfolk coast.
Seems fair to me ( as member of both RSPB and NWT).
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Old Thursday 29th March 2018, 13:28   #16
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All this discussion seems rather pointless to me. A non member is using a facility that is owned and maintained by the owner, usually on private land. If they don't want to pay a charge for that advantageous parking then they can decline and go elsewhere or become a member and benefit - helping conservation or the charity is secondary. I encountered dozens of NWT members who only wanted to use the car park at Holme Dunes for access to the beach during summer. Inevitably they screeched up in a people carrier and emptied out half a dozen occupants plus picnic paraphernalia.....not interested in the nature reserve. Same at Cley Beach car park. Fees were no different to those charged by the various council owned and private land owners all along the North Norfolk coast.
Seems fair to me ( as member of both RSPB and NWT).
If you see my first post on this thread which I started I agree with the RSPB on the subject of this thread. And Im a member of about 6 wildlife conservation organisations, including the RSPB and my local county trust, as well as an active member of my RSPB Local Group. I think its an interesting subject to discuss.
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Old Sunday 22nd April 2018, 16:35   #17
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The RSPB is clearly trying to increase the revenue from its reserves. I visited Frampton Marsh yesterday for the first time this year to find that non-members are now asked to pay 2 for access. It used to be free access and a voluntary 2 carpark charge.
The nearby Freiston Shore RSPB reserve has a sign warning that the free carpark will be 2 from early June - it has been put back from the start of April for some reason. Apparently there will be a ticket machine installed: non-members will pay 2 but members will be asked to press a button for a free ticket that they will then have to display along with their membership card. This is in a carpark where there have been a few break-ins in recent years. I am not keen to label my car as a birder's vehicle and so invite those so inclined to smash my rear window - maybe safer to buy a 2 ticket and pretend it is a dog-walker's car: there are about ten times as many dog-walkers as birders there. Maybe the RSPB have sussed that out.

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Old Sunday 22nd April 2018, 16:50   #18
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What happens if you fail to pay the parking charge?
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Old Monday 23rd April 2018, 17:09   #19
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What happens if you fail to pay the parking charge?
I remember that any offending vehicle received some form of polite notice reminder under the front windscreen wiper to obtain a ticket. Personally I cannot envisage the RSPB enforcing this policy via any legal system through to presenting a case before a local magistrate. It would be costly and bad p.r. which other organisations avoid, rather they rely on goodwill even for persistent offenders. Working on the premise that the majority will purchase said ticket - not sure how this increased revenue would or could be treated....eg, ploughed in centrally to The Lodge coffers or used by the charging reserve directly towards site maintenance or conservation management.
Why not try it Bubbs, even if you are a member, and let us know?
Pat (currently exiled in Berkshire).

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Old Monday 23rd April 2018, 17:43   #20
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The RSPB is clearly trying to increase the revenue from its reserves. I visited Frampton Marsh yesterday for the first time this year to find that non-members are now asked to pay 2 for access. It used to be free access and a voluntary 2 carpark charge.
The nearby Freiston Shore RSPB reserve has a sign warning that the free carpark will be 2 from early June - it has been put back from the start of April for some reason. Apparently there will be a ticket machine installed: non-members will pay 2 but members will be asked to press a button for a free ticket that they will then have to display along with their membership card. This is in a carpark where there have been a few break-ins in recent years. I am not keen to label my car as a birder's vehicle and so invite those so inclined to smash my rear window - maybe safer to buy a 2 ticket and pretend it is a dog-walker's car: there are about ten times as many dog-walkers as birders there. Maybe the RSPB have sussed that out.


Steve
Ive been checking the list of RSPB reserves on the RSPB website and the RSPB have or are about to start charging at a small number of RSPB reserves for non members of the RSPB where there hasnt been a car park charge for non members before.
In another thread I started, I mentioned that the RSPB want to start charging a car parking fee of 5.00 for non members of the RSPB at South Stack Cliffs reserve, when there has never been a car parking charge before. But the local public have been up in arms about this. The RSPB are trying to get planning permission to do this from the Local Authority as South Stack Cliffs is leased to the RSPB from the local council.
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Old Monday 23rd April 2018, 19:47   #21
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Ian, you're latest post contained RSPB 9 times.......24 in total amongst your comments , more than the combined total of all the other replies in this thread. Anything amiss?
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Old Monday 23rd April 2018, 19:53   #22
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Ian, you're latest post contained RSPB 9 times.......24 in total amongst your comments , more than the combined total of all the other replies in this thread. Anything amiss?
Why does that worry you so much?
Ian.
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Old Tuesday 24th April 2018, 05:57   #23
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One might have surplus RSPB;
XBut, it probably will not be free !
XIf paying for parking
XIs anyone narking:
XAway in their car, they can flee !
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Old Tuesday 24th April 2018, 07:58   #24
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Why not try it Bubbs, even if you are a member, and let us know? Pat (currently exiled in Berkshire).
I am a member. I just wondered if they ever ticket anyone.

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Old Tuesday 24th April 2018, 11:19   #25
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I think that the RSPB is too cautious of creating bad publicity to go down the ticketing/clamping route - those in the shooting industry and their close friends in the media would jump at the chance of using it against them. So I suspect it might be a bluff .....
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