A couple of 7D and 400mm f5.6 questions (1 Viewer)

Roy C · Apr 27, 2014

Kevin Conville said:
I'm not going to dispute your findings and it's clear it's working out for you. I'm trying to imagine for myself if I would have been able to get these images without single point focus. I'm not seeing it.

You have lost me completely now Kevin :eek!:, I also use single point focus but that has nothing to do with AF mode like 'One shot' or AI servo, you can use single point or multiple AF points in either of these modes. 'One shot' does not mean single AF point it just means that the focus is good for 1 shot (ie the Camera will focus only once). The number of AF points has not been mentioned once in this thread as far as I can remember.

BTW some beautiful birds in your post Kevin, superb colours - out UK birds are mostly fairly drab in comparison.

Roy C · Apr 27, 2014

Kevin, just to clarify as you seem to be getting confused between 'AF mode' and 'AF Area Mode'.

AF Modes:
One shot
AI Servo
AI Focus

AF Area Modes
Single point
Single point Expansion
Zone AF
19 point AF
Spot AF

You can use any of the Area modes in any of the AF modes, hopes this helps to clear it up.

kneonlight · Apr 27, 2014

Roy C said:
Glen, when you shoot in RAW you are getting just that - RAW data. RAW images always look flat and soft(ish) straight from the Camera so you need to be able to process them to get them looking good. Until you have learned how to process a RAW image to get the best out of it I would suggest that you try shooting JPEGs to see how you get on.
Just as a tester to make sure that your lens is OK why not try shooting something like a cornflake/cereal box, outdoors in good light from around, say 15 metres (use tripod and self timer), use one shot if you like and Make sure you check the exposure (see below about the histogram)

Remember that when it comes to exposure the Cameras histogram is your friend, keep glancing at it to check that you are correctly exposing (make sure you have the 'blinkies' warning turned on) - if you had done this with the magazine shot you posted you would have seen that the right hand side of the histogram was way off of the right hand edge (so well underexposed as Kevin pointed out).
Attached is the histogram from the magazine shot - I have shown in red just how much the shot was underexposed, you should aim to get the right hand side of the curve as far to the right as you can (without clipping).

Thanks Roy. I'll try shooting a cereal box sometime in good light. Cloudy and rainy at the moment so may have to wait a day or two! (I'll also need a bigger garden to get 15 metres away

)I know I need to learn processing which is why I am doing a photoshop elements course - only just started it though.
In terms of the "blinkies" is there one for underexpsoure? I have set it to blink when an image is overexposed but didn't know there was an option for underexposed blinking.

I tried shooting JPEGs a while ago but they were softer than the Raws. Not sure why - I'm guessing something to do with the camera settings. Wasn't sure of the best settings to use for High quality JPEG mode so went back to RAW.

Roy C · Apr 27, 2014

kneonlight said:
Thanks Roy. I'll try shooting a cereal box sometime in good light. Cloudy and rainy at the moment so may have to wait a day or two! (I'll also need a bigger garden to get 15 metres away )I know I need to learn processing which is why I am doing a photoshop elements course - only just started it though.
In terms of the "blinkies" is there one for underexpsoure? I have set it to blink when an image is overexposed but didn't know there was an option for underexposed blinking.

I tried shooting JPEGs a while ago but they were softer than the Raws. Not sure why - I'm guessing something to do with the camera settings. Wasn't sure of the best settings to use for High quality JPEG mode so went back to RAW.

Just been looking through your Flickr shots Glen and I would say there is nothing wrong with your lens - it is just a matter of getting the exposure right and learning how to get the best of of RAW's when you process them. I have had a very quick play with a couple of your shots, not sure if they are any better but they look OK to me.Its a couple of shots I wish were mine that's for sure!

kneonlight · Apr 27, 2014

Roy C said:
Just been looking through your Flickr shots Glen and I would say there is nothing wrong with your lens - it is just a matter of getting the exposure right and learning how to get the best of of RAW's when you process them. I have had a very quick play with a couple of your shots, not sure if they are any better but they look OK to me.

That's good to hear. Thanks Roy.
I thought that would probably be the case but I'm sure you can understand me wanting to explore all areas.
Your tip on exposing to the right is very helpful - thankyou.
Another reason I currently shoot in RAW rather than in JPEG is that I figure that once I have done my photoshop course I can revisit some of my images and re-process them.

kneonlight · Apr 27, 2014

Ok, so the sun came out so I shot a cereal box about 13 metres away using a tripod, one shot mode and a self timer.
Is the image as would be expected? (have not edited at all)

Also - enjoy the flapjacks recipe!

Kevin Conville · Apr 27, 2014

Roy C said:
Kevin, just to clarify as you seem to be getting confused between 'AF mode' and 'AF Area Mode'.

AF Modes:
One shot
AI Servo
AI Focus

AF Area Modes
Single point
Single point Expansion
Zone AF
19 point AF
Spot AF

You can use any of the Area modes in any of the AF modes, hopes this helps to clear it up.

Ooops. Of course. I was indeed confused. We had a block party yesterday cooking ribs and drinking beer and it was very late. I was thinking how I use AI servo with Zone AF in my C1 program for BIF. Sorry for the distraction.

I am going to re-visit AI Servo (single point focus

) based on your comments.

Cheers

johnf3f · Apr 27, 2014

Kevin - have a look at a 1 series Canon camera, they have one shot or servo focusing, no AI focus - I wonder why?
It is a bit like "P" mode, it will get you shots but they will not necessarily be the best. Personally I use servo (with back button focus) for pretty much everything except landscapes and macro and find it to be the best compromise - though how good servo focus is will depend on which body you use.

Roy C · Apr 28, 2014

Kevin Conville said:
Ooops. Of course. I was indeed confused. We had a block party yesterday cooking ribs and drinking beer and it was very late. I was thinking how I use AI servo with Zone AF in my C1 program for BIF. Sorry for the distraction.

I am going to re-visit AI Servo (single point focus ) based on your comments.

Cheers

No probs Kevin, Its amazing what a few beers can do.

The reason why I use AI servo all the time is because I also use back button focusing (have been using it for years now and could never imagine ever using the shutter button for focusing again).

For bird photography using AI servo and back button focusing is great because with it you have:
Pseudo one shot (by acquiring focus and then releasing the back button)
AI servo (by keeping you finger on the back button)
Full time Manual focusing (by not pressing the back button at all).
All this without having to change a single thing on the Camera and shutter button will not interfere with the focus.
Back button focusing is also good for bumping/pumping the focus for flyers if you lose them.

You do have to be careful using AI Servo for static subjects, the trick is to keep 'bumping' the focus when moving to a different stationary bird that is fairly near to the last one - just use the back button to de-focus and then re-focus on the new target. This comes as second nature after a short while and it mega quick to do and gives accurate results (even on the 7D!). I use a 5D3 these days but still use the AI Servo/back button method.

I also find back button focusing useful for landscapes when on a tripod - you can get you focus , release the button, lock the head and recompose without the shutter button buggering up the focus point!

I think that we are all in agreement that AI focus absolutely sucks - I have never met anyone that actually use it !!! The fact that it is still on some Canon Camera's is strange but irrelevant - you just don't use it.

Roy C · Apr 28, 2014

kneonlight said:
Ok, so the sun came out so I shot a cereal box about 13 metres away using a tripod, one shot mode and a self timer.
Is the image as would be expected? (have not edited at all)

Also - enjoy the flapjacks recipe!

Glen I was thinking more of the box more or less filling the frame and most importantly being square on to the Camera. That way you should see how sharp the lens is with your Camera/Lens combo. This is not for MA purpose per say but just a very quick way to show if your lens is sharp. It is a good idea to carry out MA anyway. There are may different ways you can carry out the MA test but that is for another thread.

Roy C · Apr 28, 2014

johnf3f said:
Kevin - have a look at a 1 series Canon camera, they have one shot or servo focusing, no AI focus - I wonder why?

I think we are all in agreement on AI focus John - as previously mentioned it sucks!!! I am surprised that it is on the 5D3 but at the end of the day there are many things available on Cameras that most of us do not use I guess.

kneonlight · Apr 28, 2014

Roy C said:
Glen I was thinking more of the box more or less filling the frame and most importantly being square on to the Camera. That way you should see how sharp the lens is with your Camera/Lens combo. This is not for MA purpose per say but just a very quick way to show if your lens is sharp. It is a good idea to carry out MA anyway. There are may different ways you can carry out the MA test but that is for another thread.

A cereal box filing the frame from 15 metres? How big are cereal boxes where you are?!

I'll give it a go when I get a chance in good light.

Thanks again for all your help

kneonlight · Apr 29, 2014

Roy - A couple of cereal boxes!
I have done no processing at all apart from trnsfer from Raw to JPEG.

Roy C · Apr 29, 2014

kneonlight said:
Roy - A couple of cereal boxes!
I have done no processing at all apart from trnsfer from Raw to JPEG.

Nothing wrong there for un-processed RAW's Glen. I am sure there is nothing wrong with your lens - just a question now of getting your exposures right and learning a bit about post processing (essential if you are shooting RAW).

kneonlight · Apr 29, 2014

Roy C said:
Nothing wrong there for un-processed RAW's Glen. I am sure there is nothing wrong with your lens - just a question now of getting your exposures right and learning a bit about post processing (essential if you are shooting RAW).

Thankyou very much for all of your help.

People on this thread have been so helpful. I had no idea for example about exposing to the right. If anything I think I have probably been underexposing attempting to get shutter speed up and affecting image quality as a result.

Am doing a course in post processing soon so hopefully that will help

malc1 · May 2, 2014

Roy
Excuse my ignorance, could you please elaborate on "back button focussing". I just half press the shutter button, will being left handed make it more difficult to do? I'm thinking of getting a 400 5.6. i have an "old type 500" but it is heavy, I also have a sigma 120-300 non IS. I'm thinking of BIF shots.

Roy C · May 2, 2014

malc1 said:
Roy
Excuse my ignorance, could you please elaborate on "back button focussing". I just half press the shutter button, will being left handed make it more difficult to do? I'm thinking of getting a 400 5.6. i have an "old type 500" but it is heavy, I also have a sigma 120-300 non IS. I'm thinking of BIF shots.

Malc, with back button focusing you use your thumb to engage the AF on one the the back buttons while keeping your finger over the shutter button as per normal. I always use the AF-ON button for AF but you could use the 'star' button next to it if you find it more comfortable. Not sure if being left handed makes any difference to be quite honest but as you still have to the fire the shutter with your right hand then I would have thought that using you right hand thumb would be OK.
BTW with back button focusing you do not have to half press the shutter button - just press it right in to fire the shutter. Sounds complicated but it only took me a few hours to get used to it and that was around four years ago - for me now obtaining AF by half pressing the shutter button would seem very awkward and alien.

malc1 · May 3, 2014

Thanks for that, I should have said that its not so much being left handed that makes a difference but left eyed!

Paul - Herts · May 5, 2014

Malc, I hope you don't mind me asking for people's opinions on my 70D and 400 f5.6 AF. I have been struggling with image sharpness and with adjusting the AF and was going to start a thread but seeing yours I thought it was best to link my query in.

I have shot 5 photos of a focus check card then cropped the centre of each and created a composite which is linked below as the full size image. From the left they are:

1. live view AF
2. unadjusted standard AF
3. AFMA +7
4. AFMA +10
5. AFMA +13

https://www.flickr.com/photos/43324529@N04/13927873097/sizes/o/

There is a noticeable difference between the live view and unadjusted images and I can see that the +7 is a marked improvement but what I can't decide is whether the next step, +10, is any different?

It's been a frustrating days as I have got some shots of Hobbies and Red Kite that I know would have been sharp with my 40D and 300mm but rather than being bigger, sharper and more detailed they are soft :-C

On the bright side, I spent 2 hours this morning in a ground level hide watching the Hobbies skimming just above the water's surface catching Mayfly.

Any input would be very appreciated

Paul

Roy C · May 5, 2014

Paul - Herts said:
Malc, I hope you don't mind me asking for people's opinions on my 70D and 400 f5.6 AF. I have been struggling with image sharpness and with adjusting the AF and was going to start a thread but seeing yours I thought it was best to link my query in.

I have shot 5 photos of a focus check card then cropped the centre of each and created a composite which is linked below as the full size image. From the left they are:

1. live view AF
2. unadjusted standard AF
3. AFMA +7
4. AFMA +10
5. AFMA +13

https://www.flickr.com/photos/43324529@N04/13927873097/sizes/o/

There is a noticeable difference between the live view and unadjusted images and I can see that the +7 is a marked improvement but what I can't decide is whether the next step, +10, is any different?

It's been a frustrating days as I have got some shots of Hobbies and Red Kite that I know would have been sharp with my 40D and 300mm but rather than being bigger, sharper and more detailed they are soft :-C

On the bright side, I spent 2 hours this morning in a ground level hide watching the Hobbies skimming just above the water's surface catching Mayfly.

Any input would be very appreciated

Paul

Paul have you tried the dot-tune method of MA'ing. Looks excellent and it does not involve taking any shots at all!!. You just AF via live view and then compare the result to normal AF via the green focus confirmation button. The link will explain it better but many very good photographers are now using this method.

A couple of 7D and 400mm f5.6 questions (1 Viewer)

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