What I learnt from a trip to GlassParadise(tm) (1 Viewer)

I'm a painter.. I raise my glass for a few seconds to make out details and "feel" the urban landscape. My 7x42 UltraVid HDs are at Leica repair for a check, and I would like a smaller glass anyway, went to the local Swarovski rep, who sent me to a really nice retailer called Le Vieux Campeur who have a lot of stock.

I was thinking 8x25 or 8x32. I learnt it's hopeless.

The look through an 8x42 is ALWAYS more immediate than an 8x32. I compared some Zeiss, Leica and Swarovski. I compared Zeiss Conquest to Leica UV 8x32 and Swarovski El 8x32 and other 8x30. I compared a bunch of 8x42 alpha glasses, and even the Trinovid HD. The 8x42 always wins against a 32 on the quality of the "first look".

Sharpness and brightness depend on how good the glass is - immediacy of vision depends on the exit pupil size, not on the "transmission" factor or the actual brightness. At least for anything I could find and test. All the 42s fell in place with immersive immediacy, the 32s and smaller were often super-sharp but fiddly with regards to eye placement. I wear glasses and collapse the eyecups.

Lesson learnt. I may get an even better glass than my UVHD, but I won't bother with the small glasses. Some of the smaller glasses actually gave me a headache.

The tests were in the late afternoon, with still decent light.
I don't know if this is conventional wisdom, but when it comes to view, I trust *my* eyes.

Edmund

I feel the same way, which is why I use Swarovski 8.5x42 EL SV for most observing. Nevertheless, I find much use for my Zeiss 8x25 Victory Pocket, and I do find that it provides a surprisingly good "first view" compared to other small bins.

--AP

Alexis Powell said:

I feel the same way, which is why I use Swarovski 8.5x42 EL SV for most observing. Nevertheless, I find much use for my Zeiss 8x25 Victory Pocket, and I do find that it provides a surprisingly good "first view" compared to other small bins.

--AP

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The 8x25 are out of stock everywhere I look.

I think "ease of first look" should be a subjective line item in reviews. Raising the glass to the eye and seeing is subjectively very different from raising the glass to the eye, placing it carefully and looking through it.

Edmund

Looking through a shop full of binoculars rather quickly can give anybody a headache.
It is not really fair if some are rejected with a quick view.
The IPD may be wrong, the dioptre wrong, the focus not precise.

I would think that viewing more slowly with less examples at one time might be fairer.

B.

Hi Edmund,

I'd have to second the recommendation of the Zeiss Victory 8x25. Given the opportunity I would encourage you to try them.
One of the things, amongst many, that strike me about this compact is the ease of view. Without such an easy view I wouldn't even bother with a compact but currently I'm just as happy to use my 8x25 as my 7x42.

F88 said:

Hi Edmund,

I'd have to second the recommendation of the Zeiss Victory 8x25. Given the opportunity I would encourage you to try them.
One of the things, amongst many, that strike me about this compact is the ease of view. Without such an easy view I wouldn't even bother with a compact but currently I'm just as happy to use my 8x25 as my 7x42.

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Hi,

I would really really really like to try them. And even buy them if they deliver ...

Edmund

eronald said:

Hi,

I would really really really like to try them. And even buy them if they deliver ...

Edmund

Click to expand...

Well I hope you get an opportunity soon.
For what it's worth I'm not a wearer of spectacles but I've read of many cases from those who are that also find an easy view.
Standing against your UV 7x42 is a test for any binoculars and particularly so for a compact.
I'm very happy with mine but like you say your eyes will let you know.

Binastro said:

Looking through a shop full of binoculars rather quickly can give anybody a headache.
It is not really fair if some are rejected with a quick view.
The IPD may be wrong, the dioptre wrong, the focus not precise.

I would think that viewing more slowly with less examples at one time might be fairer.

B.

Click to expand...

I think I tried the binos several times for each, outdoors. And I racked the focus to 4 different aim-points, one a set of birds at 600 yards, a street view, one a set of bars about 50 yards away with an indoor through-glass scene, and some readable material about 100 yards away.

The real point of the test was to raise the glass after adjustment, and see the scenes.

Re. diopter adjustment, I did check that all were set to 0 and roughly sharp bilaterally and find the Leica UV and Noct adjustment stands out, but if the manufacturers want to make customers angry with painful diopter adjusts and cumbersome objective caps that wave around, I'm not going to tilt at that windmill. Attempting to adjust the straps on my own Leica drove me bats, and I had to tape the loose ends.

BTW, I think the winners of my little competition were the 8x42 Nocts, or maybe the expensive Swaros. The feeling of the view however is not exactly the same. The Conquest 8x42 would be perfectly sufficient for my purposes. But I already have a 7x42 Leica which is more ergonomic, and a bit warmer as I remember, and should soon come back from service, I do hope

The salesmen in the shop were clearly pushing Swaro at the high end. They said Leica was as good a bino as Swaro, but the after-sales service with Leica can take considerably longer than Swaro, and they said they will provide new eyecups etc for Swaro to their customers for free. They weren't selling the top Zeiss glass, or at least none was in stock.

I'm not fair: All the 8x32 excluded themselves from further testing. Which is sad because I would have liked to like one. And if/when I feel the need to get another 8x42 then I will do some very careful comparisons of the 2 or 3 glasses that compete at the top of the field. The 8x25 Zeiss Victory I am still hoping to see, and I would make an effort to find a Zeiss Victory 8x42.

Edmund

PS. I really recommend the Zeiss Conquest 8x42 to anyone who wants a sharp glass with great ease of view at a reasonable price. I found them slightly more convincing than the Leica Trinovid HD 8x42 which is also very good but maybe more expensive.

eronald said:

The salesmen in the shop were clearly pushing Swaro at the high end. They said Leica was as good a bino as Swaro, but the after-sales service with Leica can take considerably longer than Swaro, and they said they will provide new eyecups etc for Swaro to their customers for free. They weren't selling the top Zeiss glass, or at least none was in stock.

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If you decide to get "alpha" glass with 42mm objectives, you should definitely try the Zeiss Victory SF. I'd say especially so if you liked the Swaros. Things I like about this model (compared to Swaro):

• Flat field correction is less extreme, yielding less roller ball effect.
• HUGE FOV (Particularly commenting on the 10x here)
• The balance is uniquely close-in for less arm fatigue
• Various covers, etc. are optional (I actually like the covers and use them all the time--don't mind them hanging)

Hi,

while I personally am fine with 8x32 bins (4mm exit pupil) and dislike 10x25 (2.5mm) that is a personal thing - so if you like 8x42, by all means get a pair.

And yes, the salesman was telling the truth, Swaro service is kind of legendary - but it comes at a price - if you later need it or not.

Joachim

I am also a painter, and carry binoculars with me in the field, though primarily to look at birds that happen to be in the neighborhood. On a long hike, or if I'm in the back country, I will use the 8x25 Zeiss Victory. They fit in my shirt pocket (with a strap around my neck), and weigh very little, in addition to having a good view. I do prefer larger binocs for viewing, though, for most other occasions... 8x30, 8x42, 10x42. I also wear glasses, which does limit ease of use, and eliminates many fine binoculars from consideration.

-Bill

b3rd said:

If you decide to get "alpha" glass with 42mm objectives, you should definitely try the Zeiss Victory SF. I'd say especially so if you liked the Swaros. Things I like about this model (compared to Swaro):

• Flat field correction is less extreme, yielding less roller ball effect.
• HUGE FOV (Particularly commenting on the 10x here)
• The balance is uniquely close-in for less arm fatigue
• Various covers, etc. are optional (I actually like the covers and use them all the time--don't mind them hanging)

Click to expand...

And they were designed by the same engineers, who moved from Swarovski to Zeiss (Gerold Dobler and Konrad Seil).

I will second the Zeiss Victory Pocket 8x25. They can't compete with the 8x42 but they replaced my Leica Ultravid HD 8x32, and they are so small you can keep them with you at all times. They are also less redundant with your existing Leicas. The new Swarovski 8x30 CL B Companion are also very highly rated, although to be frank I didn't find them astoundingly better than the Zeiss 8x25.

If Le Vieux Campeur doesn't have them, you can always try FNAC, who carry Zeiss. The nearby one on Blvd St Germain closed, apparently, but Montparnasse is not far.

fazalmajid said:

And they were designed by the same engineers, who moved from Swarovski to Zeiss (Gerold Dobler and Konrad Seil).

I will second the Zeiss Victory Pocket 8x25. They can't compete with the 8x42 but they replaced my Leica Ultravid HD 8x32, and they are so small you can keep them with you at all times. They are also less redundant with your existing Leicas. The new Swarovski 8x30 CL B Companion are also very highly rated, although to be frank I didn't find them astoundingly better than the Zeiss 8x25.

If Le Vieux Campeur doesn't have them, you can always try FNAC, who carry Zeiss. The nearby one on Blvd St Germain closed, apparently, but Montparnasse is not far.

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Following recommendations, I did try the 8x25 Victory at Maison de l'Observation on Rivoli near Chatelet, and compared them to a Conquest 8x32, and another glass - see below. These Conquest were a disappointment, the 8x25 were SUPER sharp and decently bright, but unfortunately I just couldn't keep them easily centered in my view. They work well, show a good image, but need care and calm to show their best. The Conquest did bring up an image immediately, but were not so nice.

I then tried the Victory SF 8x42 and it knocked my socks off. Best glass I have ever tried, maybe the Noctivid comes close. Incredibly easy view. WOW! Unbelievable! I want!

Unfortunately however, the Victory 8x42 is redundant with my own Leica UV HD 7x42, and it is not in any sense compact. They are HUGE. I would have no problem being persuaded to get one - oh but the price- but I doubt I would carry it around the city to look at roofs and details.

The 8x25 are a superb product but won't work for me when an instant view is what I need. So far, no luck in finding a smaller glass. When they get back from service, my 7x42 Leica may in fact be the solution for my everyday carry problem, small enough to be manageable, affordable enough to replace if damaged, easy to use and decently sharp. It is possible that there is still some other bino I will run into that will solve my problem "accidentally".

Edmund
PS. Since I started using binos or trying them in shops, I found I suddenly notice details in the distance much more. A very positive effect.