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Durham Birding (5 Viewers)

Thats quite an accusation to be bandying about on a public forum !

JUST WHO is constantly disturbing Long-eared Owls ?

Myself & my co-workers check our nest boxes in & around the DWT with the consent & goodwill of the DWT Director.

Checking boxes for occupation & the general housekeeping thereof is simply part & parcel of what we do as local conservationists.

Dont forget, we have been studying Long-eared Owls longer than you've been alive Andrew.

I read somewhere only recently of an adult male being flushed from beside a nest and then a female flushed off so you could go up into the tree and count the number of eggs a LEO was sitting on. When I asked about a pair even closer to home and I had asked if you checked the eggs you never denied it. That isn't DWT land, if you have checked the pair you know I am on about.

I am never going to deny you have been watching Long-eared Owls since before I was born but why the need to check boxes and nests for number of eggs? Juveniles can be counted easily once they fledge as you well know. What about the Barn Owls locally? You can't check them without a licence fullstop. Consent to check how many eggs are in a nest every couple of weeks? Why do you even need to know how many eggs are in, if some fail then so be it. At least you can be safe in the knowledge you haven't directly caused the eggs going cold by flushing birds from nests while wanting to know how many eggs are in there in the first place. I never hear on any reserves of staff or wardens going off and counting how many eggs are in an Owl box. It doesn't happen. Why is this an exception? I am missing something here I guess?
 
Andrew, your views are noted

Im quite happy with my actions - if you are unhappy, i suggest you contact DWT for any clarification.

I dont know why you should try to discredit me & 2 decades worth of fieldwork & study on this particular species.... but you are way off track matey.

Look forward to bumping into you again soon.

SE

---------------------------------------------------

Anyway heres some images from Rainton local patch today (single Jack present again today but Mondays image) - including some of the 15 species of waders we've had this week -
Well done to DWT, local birders have been waiting a decade for the wader friendly habo we now have. :clap:
Hopefully, the Freezer area will be receiving a bit TLC shortly.

1) Common Tern, 2) Canada Goose & 2 day old goslings, 3) male Lapwing, 4) Jack Snipe, 5) male Little ringed Plover displaying
 

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I read somewhere only recently of an adult male being flushed from beside a nest and then a female flushed off so you could go up into the tree and count the number of eggs a LEO was sitting on. When I asked about a pair even closer to home and I had asked if you checked the eggs you never denied it. That isn't DWT land, if you have checked the pair you know I am on about.

I am never going to deny you have been watching Long-eared Owls since before I was born but why the need to check boxes and nests for number of eggs? Juveniles can be counted easily once they fledge as you well know. What about the Barn Owls locally? You can't check them without a licence fullstop. Consent to check how many eggs are in a nest every couple of weeks? Why do you even need to know how many eggs are in, if some fail then so be it. At least you can be safe in the knowledge you haven't directly caused the eggs going cold by flushing birds from nests while wanting to know how many eggs are in there in the first place. I never hear on any reserves of staff or wardens going off and counting how many eggs are in an Owl box. It doesn't happen. Why is this an exception? I am missing something here I guess?

Gents (Stevie and Andrew)
I've no idea who you are personally, so I've no desire to come between you in your personal discussion (which might be better away from this thread - just a thought), but on a conservation point I do have a view because this is an important subject. I'm very far from being an expert in long-eared owl but in general terms there are obviously sound conservation reasons for needing to understand the breeding ecology of particular species to enable their conservation needs to be met properly. To get a full picture of this it is important to gather a depth of data from a wide range of sources that allows a deeper understanding of all matters that have an impact on productivity. This includes looking at things like population density and nest site selection, things which can be observed more remotely; however it also includes loooking at detailed aspects of productivity from mating success, through clutch size in different climatic and habitat conditions etc., to incubation success, hatchling survival rates, fledging success etc. These things inevitably mean close inspection of nests. This kind of thing happens all the time in species such as red kite (and many other raptors have clutch size counted then young ringed in the nest etc. with no harm done) and there is clearly long-standing local work in County Durham on long-eared owl. Generating this detailed knowledge helps us to make evidence-based conservation decisions that can give advance warning of problems within populations of particular species and tell us important things about the health of our environment. I'm not an expert on the detail, as I said, but I do know that it's true to say that we can never know too much about our wildlife.

There are times when, and ways in which, it's ok to approach nests and do this important work and times / ways in which it's not (when it's cold and wet / taking too long over it being obvious examples). I'm know that those well-trained in this work and engaged in long-term monitoring have guidelines to follow.

So, I'll leave the detail of the personal disagreement to you (and it sounds like you get on fine really!), but there's no question in my mind that a) knowing about clutch size and hatching success (and other aspects of productivity) does matter, and that work on it goes on all the time and long may it do so, and b) it's very important in helping us gain a deeper understanding of wildlife and our environment, as part of a big picture that builds over a long time. Much of this work is done by trained and committed volunteers because the funding and the time (and sometimes the knowledge too) isn't always there in the professional conservation community.

On a personal note, I'm rubbish at finding owls (even when they are mobbed by passerines in a tree and the passerines are virtually shouting, "It's in here you idiot"). So I'm not offering you my in-depth specific owl knowledge or this would be a pretty short post.

I seem to be getting a little more time for birding this year, especially as my older daughter is taking a real interest (once her exams are done!), so I hope to meet you both before long and you might even get to say to me, "It's in there. Left a bit, no not that - that's a branch" etc., as I fail to see LEO again.
Chris
 
and seeing as Hinge & Bracket are away, a couple more :-

1) Common Sandpiper
2) Wood Sandpiper
3) Redshank & Ruff
4) Dunlin
 

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Gents (Stevie and Andrew)
I've no idea who you are personally, so I've no desire to come between you in your personal discussion (which might be better away from this thread - just a thought), but on a conservation point I do have a view because this is an important subject. I'm very far from being an expert in long-eared owl but in general terms there are obviously sound conservation reasons for needing to understand the breeding ecology of particular species to enable their conservation needs to be met properly. To get a full picture of this it is important to gather a depth of data from a wide range of sources that allows a deeper understanding of all matters that have an impact on productivity. This includes looking at things like population density and nest site selection, things which can be observed more remotely; however it also includes loooking at detailed aspects of productivity from mating success, through clutch size in different climatic and habitat conditions etc., to incubation success, hatchling survival rates, fledging success etc. These things inevitably mean close inspection of nests. This kind of thing happens all the time in species such as red kite (and many other raptors have clutch size counted then young ringed in the nest etc. with no harm done) and there is clearly long-standing local work in County Durham on long-eared owl. Generating this detailed knowledge helps us to make evidence-based conservation decisions that can give advance warning of problems within populations of particular species and tell us important things about the health of our environment. I'm not an expert on the detail, as I said, but I do know that it's true to say that we can never know too much about our wildlife.

There are times when, and ways in which, it's ok to approach nests and do this important work and times / ways in which it's not (when it's cold and wet / taking too long over it being obvious examples). I'm know that those well-trained in this work and engaged in long-term monitoring have guidelines to follow.

So, I'll leave the detail of the personal disagreement to you (and it sounds like you get on fine really!), but there's no question in my mind that a) knowing about clutch size and hatching success (and other aspects of productivity) does matter, and that work on it goes on all the time and long may it do so, and b) it's very important in helping us gain a deeper understanding of wildlife and our environment, as part of a big picture that builds over a long time. Much of this work is done by trained and committed volunteers because the funding and the time (and sometimes the knowledge too) isn't always there in the professional conservation community.

On a personal note, I'm rubbish at finding owls (even when they are mobbed by passerines in a tree and the passerines are virtually shouting, "It's in here you idiot"). So I'm not offering you my in-depth specific owl knowledge or this would be a pretty short post.

I seem to be getting a little more time for birding this year, especially as my older daughter is taking a real interest (once her exams are done!), so I hope to meet you both before long and you might even get to say to me, "It's in there. Left a bit, no not that - that's a branch" etc., as I fail to see LEO again.
Chris

There are breeding Long-eared Owls in & around Darlo
i can send you some info, but for heavens sake dont tell Rent a gob
 
ChrisWS,
I have bumped into Stevie Evans a few times and he has a real interest in the well being of sites and birds.I have only met Andrew Kinghorn once in the freezer at Rainton Meadows when he said he was the original Andy K ! He is also clearly passionate about Ornithology and his local patch.
Steve knows I believe from my short conversations that he rubs people up the wrong way sometimes but the guy I am sure is more than 100% behind all conservation efforts, I am sure " Foghorn" is the same and as you point out I understand despite the spat they are good mates ! Also,yes ,Stevie please clean up your PM Box, I have tried for yonks to go on a general hike with you on your local patch ! Just want you to give me a date ! How about a 20 mile plus full on catch all walk ?
 
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last few,
a couple of the Jack Snipe & coloured Ruff :-

1) Jack Snipe (uncropped), 2) Jack Snipe & my knee showing proximity to bird
3) Ruff alert, 4) Ruff feeding infront of hide


very pleased with these latest pictures - all taken holding iPhone to telescope

have just found out by accident i can spot focus simply by touching the screen ! - thats after having the thing for exactly a year !

ive also realised what a difference it makes to the images in having the sun behind you.

Still hoping to "Click"more bird species than big John by the end of the year - thats if the old goat lives that long....
 

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ChrisWS,
I have bumped into Stevie Evans a few times and he has a real interest in the well being of sites and birds.I have only met Andrew Kinghorn once in the freezer at Rainton Meadows when he said he was the original Andy K ! He is also clearly passionate about Ornithology and his local patch.
Steve knows I believe from my short conversations that he rubs people up the wrong way sometimes but the guy I am sure is more than 100% behind all conservation efforts, I am sure " Foghorn" is the same and as you point out I understand despite the spat they are good mates ! Also,yes ,Stevie please clean up your PM Box, I have tried for yonks to go on a general hike with you on your local patch ! Just want you to give me a date ! How about a 20 mile plus full on catch all walk ?

Thanks Andy.
 
There are breeding Long-eared Owls in & around Darlo
i can send you some info, but for heavens sake dont tell Rent a gob

Thanks Steve. It would be good to see some again. I'm sure there was a joke in your quote, but I'd be discreet anyway.
I'm new to the forum but i'm aware of the personal message function so I'd happily receive info there if needs be.
Best wishes
Chris
 
Thanks Steve. It would be good to see some again. I'm sure there was a joke in your quote, but I'd be discreet anyway.
I'm new to the forum but i'm aware of the personal message function so I'd happily receive info there if needs be.
Best wishes
Chris

Yes Chris, my reply was rather abrupt.
Im pleased you have some understanding of why we monitor this particular species.
I can send you a survey methodology which i put together - this has helped several regional birders locate Long-eared Owls for themselves & resulted in us locating at least 150 pairs in Co.Durham, from the coast right up onto the moors.
cheers Steve
 
Gents (Stevie and Andrew)
I've no idea who you are personally, so I've no desire to come between you in your personal discussion (which might be better away from this thread - just a thought), but on a conservation point I do have a view because this is an important subject. I'm very far from being an expert in long-eared owl but in general terms there are obviously sound conservation reasons for needing to understand the breeding ecology of particular species to enable their conservation needs to be met properly. To get a full picture of this it is important to gather a depth of data from a wide range of sources that allows a deeper understanding of all matters that have an impact on productivity. This includes looking at things like population density and nest site selection, things which can be observed more remotely; however it also includes loooking at detailed aspects of productivity from mating success, through clutch size in different climatic and habitat conditions etc., to incubation success, hatchling survival rates, fledging success etc. These things inevitably mean close inspection of nests. This kind of thing happens all the time in species such as red kite (and many other raptors have clutch size counted then young ringed in the nest etc. with no harm done) and there is clearly long-standing local work in County Durham on long-eared owl. Generating this detailed knowledge helps us to make evidence-based conservation decisions that can give advance warning of problems within populations of particular species and tell us important things about the health of our environment. I'm not an expert on the detail, as I said, but I do know that it's true to say that we can never know too much about our wildlife.

There are times when, and ways in which, it's ok to approach nests and do this important work and times / ways in which it's not (when it's cold and wet / taking too long over it being obvious examples). I'm know that those well-trained in this work and engaged in long-term monitoring have guidelines to follow.

So, I'll leave the detail of the personal disagreement to you (and it sounds like you get on fine really!), but there's no question in my mind that a) knowing about clutch size and hatching success (and other aspects of productivity) does matter, and that work on it goes on all the time and long may it do so, and b) it's very important in helping us gain a deeper understanding of wildlife and our environment, as part of a big picture that builds over a long time. Much of this work is done by trained and committed volunteers because the funding and the time (and sometimes the knowledge too) isn't always there in the professional conservation community.

On a personal note, I'm rubbish at finding owls (even when they are mobbed by passerines in a tree and the passerines are virtually shouting, "It's in here you idiot"). So I'm not offering you my in-depth specific owl knowledge or this would be a pretty short post.

I seem to be getting a little more time for birding this year, especially as my older daughter is taking a real interest (once her exams are done!), so I hope to meet you both before long and you might even get to say to me, "It's in there. Left a bit, no not that - that's a branch" etc., as I fail to see LEO again.
Chris

Hi Chris,

I am all for conservation work, the more the better! I often find those who volunteer to do conservation work often find out more about a species than those who are employed to do so. In this case Steve probably knows more about Long-eared Owl than most people in Durham.

I wouldn't really say it was a "spat" between me and Stevie more of a disagreement on 1 topic (sounds better ;)), what concerns me is that many people visit the same sites day in day out and for no real reason other than to see the birds. I am guilty as the next man for this! I go to see Owls because I enjoy them, I submit my records with as much detail as possible regarding locations incase the information and data might be important at some point in time.

I am not going to go any further into details on a public forum but there is a lot of things that you (Chris) probably don't know goes on. I know these things go on (illegal things) and it annoys me. Quite a lot.

Steve:
But I stand by what I said originally; it was very ill mannered and bad taste to say what you (Steve) said to me the other day in the hide and this evening on the forum. No one should speak to others like that, I might be new to the game but who wasn't at one point? I am young yes...but I am strong willed with my own opinions.

Peace out folks:flyaway:
 
Hi Chris,

I am all for conservation work, the more the better! I often find those who volunteer to do conservation work often find out more about a species than those who are employed to do so. In this case Steve probably knows more about Long-eared Owl than most people in Durham.

I wouldn't really say it was a "spat" between me and Stevie more of a disagreement on 1 topic (sounds better ;)), what concerns me is that many people visit the same sites day in day out and for no real reason other than to see the birds. I am guilty as the next man for this! I go to see Owls because I enjoy them, I submit my records with as much detail as possible regarding locations incase the information and data might be important at some point in time.

I am not going to go any further into details on a public forum but there is a lot of things that you (Chris) probably don't know goes on. I know these things go on (illegal things) and it annoys me. Quite a lot.

Steve:
But I stand by what I said originally; it was very ill mannered and bad taste to say what you (Steve) said to me the other day in the hide and this evening on the forum. No one should speak to others like that, I might be new to the game but who wasn't at one point? I am young yes...but I am strong willed with my own opinions.

Peace out folks:flyaway:

Hi Andrew
I ought to confess to a 20-plus year career in nature conservation and Protected Area management (that I wasn't going to mention until you thought I didn't know what went on, or inadvertantly questioned what some of us know- not that many volunteers don't know more than professionals do about some specific subjects - they certainly do). So I'm very much aware of the 'what goes on' issues and know that dealing with them is a long and complex journey.
Best wishes
Chris
 
PM inbox

Yes Chris, my reply was rather abrupt.
Im pleased you have some understanding of why we monitor this particular species.
I can send you a survey methodology which i put together - this has helped several regional birders locate Long-eared Owls for themselves & resulted in us locating at least 150 pairs in Co.Durham, from the coast right up onto the moors.
cheers Steve

Hi Steve
I PM'd you my contact details re the survey methodology but your inbox is full.
Chris
 
Hi Chris,

I am all for conservation work, the more the better! I often find those who volunteer to do conservation work often find out more about a species than those who are employed to do so. In this case Steve probably knows more about Long-eared Owl than most people in Durham.

I wouldn't really say it was a "spat" between me and Stevie more of a disagreement on 1 topic (sounds better ;)), what concerns me is that many people visit the same sites day in day out and for no real reason other than to see the birds. I am guilty as the next man for this! I go to see Owls because I enjoy them, I submit my records with as much detail as possible regarding locations incase the information and data might be important at some point in time.

I am not going to go any further into details on a public forum but there is a lot of things that you (Chris) probably don't know goes on. I know these things go on (illegal things) and it annoys me. Quite a lot.

Steve:
But I stand by what I said originally; it was very ill mannered and bad taste to say what you (Steve) said to me the other day in the hide and this evening on the forum. No one should speak to others like that, I might be new to the game but who wasn't at one point? I am young yes...but I am strong willed with my own opinions.

Peace out folks:flyaway:


Andrew,
now you're talking in riddles.

You were way way out of line to accuse Jimmy of trampling paths up to nests - thats why you were spoken to in the manner in which you were & you got it in the neck.

Think about it,
if me Jimmy & Colin get up & leave the hide & not bother speaking to you on the way out then you must surely realise you've P-eed folk off... not the other way round !!

We were all getting on nicely till you started you wild accusations.

Whats these illegal things youre now mentioning...? I hope youre not suggesting that me , Jimmy or Colin are involved, or we will be falling out....


Being slightly rude to someone is a little bit different to dangling accusations of some form of wrong-doing.

Explain please....i'll read it 2moro.
:cat:
 
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...I can send you a survey methodology which i put together - this has helped several regional birders locate Long-eared Owls for themselves & resulted in us locating at least 150 pairs in Co.Durham, from the coast right up onto the moors...

No denying that some great field work has been done in recent years which has revealed the true status of Long-eared, as well as the other owls, in County Durham. The new county avifauna is coming at an excellent time to reveal and publish the findings. Looking forward to seeing the results. Are you writing (or helping with writing) the owl accounts?

Mark
 
We were all getting on nicely till you started you wild accusations.

Whats these illegal things youre now mentioning...? I hope youre not suggesting that me , Jimmy or Colin are involved, or we will be falling out....


Being slightly rude to someone is a little bit different to dangling accusations of some form of wrong-doing

Explain please....i'll read it 2moro.
:cat:

Its like your living in Steve's world!;)

I didn't turn to Jimmy and say to him about the path I was speaking to everyone. I said "Canny path that's developing to the Owl nest I noticed (on passing)." Then you all turned nasty. Was it the fairys who made the path? :smoke:

Accusations are being dangled as one of the people present has openly told me that they know how many Barn Owls are in each box, these boxes are spread all over the North East and Scotland. Barn Owl are on their northerly tip in Scotland and it is known how many birds are in each box. Now I am far from an expert but I have only ever seen Barn Owl out hunting in daylight on a handful of occasions. I know the county these Scottish Barn Owl boxes are in and I know these are visited during daylight hours. I naturally ask myself how can one check if a Barn Owl box is sitting incubating eggs at this time of year. Data is not being collected for these birds. However to my knowledge this does concern you(?) as you don't go and check these boxes.

I can never remember in the previous 3 or so years hearing about you checking owl boxes and nests, you always appeared to observe from a safe and sensible distance. Just this year I am seeing photos and write-ups where owls are flushed from trees and nests during the breeding season. I am wondering; is this a recent development or has it gone on for years? In order to collect data?

You might think I am full of "5.H.I.T" but it doesn't really bother me, you seem to like to lecture me and others on how to behave and what to do. Some people just don't stand for it. Your a very knowledgeable birder Steve and I have learnt a few things from you, I have a long way to go as a birder but I ain't a daft no-nothing. In the first place why even say something like that to me on a public forum?:eek!: Immature don't you think.......

No I don't want to fall out with you or any local lads, no I am not trying to cause trouble, I expressed concern over some local Owls. You seem quick (in my experience) to point the finger at others (even those who assist you in your 'study').
 
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Andrew I'm sure everyones tired of this repetitive dross.

You seem to have timed your outbursts to co-incide with one of the best weeks birding we've had on that part of the local patch..... Strange, all the other local birders & visitors are up a height with delight, rather than being up aheight about something you don't comprehend.

Scotland? Which part of Durham is that in? Never been up there for years.
I take you are talking about Jimmy again ? Pretty spiteful I'd say, that guy is nowadays one of the keenest bird conservationists I know, you should maybe consider taking a leaf out of his book & do something positive & purposeful for wild birds. Not to mention he doesn't even post here.

Just keep going Andrew, you'll be getting sent to Coventry b4 too long.
-------------------------

Agamiheron reckoned my good run would end when he was back....
I'm at Cleadon now with a singing Common Rosefinch where I'm working !
I was impressed with the Treecreeper, Blackcap & GSW around the gardens nevermind that.

Look forward to reading your local patch reports Andrew.

Look forward to reading your
 
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No denying that some great field work has been done in recent years which has revealed the true status of Long-eared, as well as the other owls, in County Durham. The new county avifauna is coming at an excellent time to reveal and publish the findings. Looking forward to seeing the results. Are you writing (or helping with writing) the owl accounts?

Mark

If you want to know the status of owls or any wild bird, ask a gamekeeper or countryman - not a bookworm.
 
Just keep going Andrew, you'll be getting sent to Coventry b4 too long.

See you there? ;)

I am not sure you should name the person (I didn't for good reason). Its not the place to post around peoples names who don't actually come onto BirdFourm. Most of your posts are excellent and highly constitutive. Others are just you putting people down and playing "great and higher than thou", this time I got it in the neck.

Nice one with singing Common Rosefinch! Excellent bird, don't forget to submit your reports to the local county recorder. I take it I'm off the grape vine of news now?....thought as much.;)

See you soon no doubt, now where's my appology :flowers:

ps Woodchat Shrike at undisclosed site in Chester-le-street. Twooooo can be as bad as oneeeeee
 
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