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Kahles?

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Old Monday 10th September 2012, 23:37   #1
atforest
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Kahles?

I heard somewhere along the line that Kahles optics are produced in the same plant or produced by the same folks that produce the Swarovski optics. Any comments on this? I did some searching on this forum and found there might be some relationship, but I am still unclear as to what that relationship is.
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Old Tuesday 11th September 2012, 09:41   #2
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As I remember reading on this forum Kahles at some time was owned by Swarovski, but are on their own or under some other company now. I didn't look into it though.
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Old Tuesday 11th September 2012, 14:29   #3
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A while back they were associated with Swarovski of North America. Information on the literature that came with the binoculars instructed that queries about repairs be made through SONA. Later GAMO, the Air Rifle company began representing them. Currently they are independent and continue making binoculars in Austria.

In comments at the end of a review of the Kahles 8 x 32 binocular in Allbinos, is a statement saying both companies (Swarovski and Kahles) have common roots and have been cooperating closely.

They are represented in the USA by Khayles, in Orofino, Idaho.

I will have a report on the Kahles 8 x 32 soon. They only make 3 binoculars: 8 and 10 x 42 and 8 x 32. Eagle Optics sells them.

Bob

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Old Tuesday 11th September 2012, 18:48   #4
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Thanks for the replies!
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Old Tuesday 11th September 2012, 21:57   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceasar View Post
A while back they were associated with Swarovski of North America. Information on the literature that came with the binoculars instructed that queries about repairs be made through SONA. Later GAMO, the Air Rifle company began representing them. Currently they are independent and continue making binoculars in Austria.

In comments at the end of a review of the Kahles 8 x 32 binocular in Allbinos, is a statement saying both companies (Swarovski and Kahles) have common roots and have been cooperating closely.

They are represented in the USA by Khayles, in Orofino, Idaho.

I will have a report on the Kahles 8 x 32 soon. They only make 3 binoculars: 8 and 10 x 42 and 8 x 32. Eagle Optics sells them.

Bob
I am looking forward to hearing your review.

John
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Old Wednesday 12th September 2012, 04:58   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceasar View Post
A while back they were associated with Swarovski of North America. Information on the literature that came with the binoculars instructed that queries about repairs be made through SONA. Later GAMO, the Air Rifle company began representing them. Currently they are independent and continue making binoculars in Austria.

In comments at the end of a review of the Kahles 8 x 32 binocular in Allbinos, is a statement saying both companies (Swarovski and Kahles) have common roots and have been cooperating closely.

They are represented in the USA by Khayles, in Orofino, Idaho.

I will have a report on the Kahles 8 x 32 soon. They only make 3 binoculars: 8 and 10 x 42 and 8 x 32. Eagle Optics sells them.

Bob
Bob,

Your encylopedic knowledge of Austrian optics is impressive. So two more questions: How comes Kahles goes by the name Khalyles in the U.S.? ("comes" is the way we says it in Bradford, Pa.). And how the heck did they end up in Idaho of all places? Maybe Idaho John knows.

Btw, Arek reviewed the 8x32 on allbinos. Amazingly, they had perfectly round exit pupils, you don't see that often on small roofs, at least on allbinos.

http://www.allbinos.com/181-binocula...hles_8x32.html

The summary being that "All 8x32 class binoculars which in our tests fared better than the Kahles are either more expensive or heavier or more expensive and heavier at the same time."

But it ain't cheap, $921 at EO. Leightweight and priced competitively with the Swaro CL, and with .6* more FOV. I figured that "Made in Austria" tag was worth about $300 alone. IOW, you might find comparable performance in the $500-$600 range in Japanese optics (or at least, you used to) and get similar performance such as the Pentax 8x32 SP, and for a bit less than the CL or Kahles, you could upgrade to the Pentax 8x32 ED and "get the red out".

Chromatic aberration was one of the negatives in Arek's review and te Kahles being "only" sharp to 80% (of 7.6* FOV), and some "fit and finish" issues. Sounds pretty good. If only I had small hands, the world of closed bridge, lightweight, compact 8x32 roofs would be my oyster.

I look forward to your review and further historical facts about the Kahles Royal family.

<B>
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Old Wednesday 12th September 2012, 06:14   #7
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Brock,

Hardly encyclopedic. Kahles is still largely mysterious. I spelled the US representatives name wrong. It is Khabyes, not Khalyes. It appears to be a small family business. See more info below:

http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.ph...32&postcount=7

The binocular is lighter than it used to be with the new magnesium frame (I have the older version) but it is quite substantial in the hand. There are the same unchanged vertical ridges along the objective tubes that are reminiscent of the Leica Trinovid. Even the rainguard resembles the one that came with the Trinovid. It is also shorter than the Swarovski 8 x 30SLC and the Nikon 8 x 32LX L. Its exterior did not change. All changes made, other than the lighter frame, were to the optics. New coatings (visibly quite different on the objectives) and wider oculars and longer eye cups. Albinos indicates changes on the prism coatings too.

I'll have a longer report soon with some comparisons including a "reference standard." I want to spend a few hours with it at Hawk Mountain. Meanwhile, it's pretty darn good and easy to use. As for the cost? It's made in western Europe. What can I say?

Bob

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Old Wednesday 12th September 2012, 12:21   #8
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Hmm, Hawk Mountain you say? Would be a good time with Broadwings peaking. I had quite a few in the parking lot of BOK yesterday afternoon as well as a variety of other birds. FOY Red Crossbill was my favorite though.

This weekend Bob?
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Old Wednesday 12th September 2012, 18:10   #9
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Hmm, Hawk Mountain you say? Would be a good time with Broadwings peaking. I had quite a few in the parking lot of BOK yesterday afternoon as well as a variety of other birds. FOY Red Crossbill was my favorite though.

This weekend Bob?
I don't think so. I try to avoid weekends and go in the middle of the week.

Bob
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Old Tuesday 13th November 2012, 15:22   #10
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Kahles was bought by Swarovski in 1975 because of the fact that on that time Kahles made one of the finest rifle scopes. So in fact Swarovski bought the brain. At this moment all Kahles bino's are outsourced to Kamakura in Japan.
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Old Wednesday 14th November 2012, 04:43   #11
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Kahles was bought by Swarovski in 1975 because of the fact that on that time Kahles made one of the finest rifle scopes. So in fact Swarovski bought the brain. At this moment all Kahles bino's are outsourced to Kamakura in Japan.
Hi Jan,

Welcome to Bird Forum!

I have two 8 x 32 Kahles binoculars. The boxes both of them came in clearly state (in English) Made in Austria along with the codes and their Serial Numbers. I don't know if it is legal to make a statement like this about them in Europe if they were outsourced to Japan for manufacture. Perhaps you can comment on that?

When I purchased my older one a few years ago I called Swarovski of North America to register it per instructions on the registration card. I was told at that time that Swarovski was no longer associated with them and to contact GAMO, America instead. I have been informed by the Kahles representative in the USA that Kahles is now independent. See above threads.

My older model was made before 2007 according to the Kahles rep. My new one is a 2012 model according to the information on the box it came in. There is not a dimes worth of difference between the 2 binoculars externally except the eyecups are 3mm longer and the diameter of the oculars is 2mm wider on the new model. Otherwise they are identical, right down to the lengthwise ridges on their bodies. The new model also has a lighter magnesium body.

Their Serial Numbers are on the bottom of the central hinge exactly where they are on my 2 Swarovski SLC binoculars and they appear to have a similar coding system.

The coatings on the objectives are visibly very different and the FOV is wider in the new model.

It would appear that if Kamakura in Japan is now making them that they also have the original tooling for them that Kahles used to make them.

Bob

PS: Allbinos reviewed these binoculars on 2011-05-02. I believe that the binoculars reviewed there are an earlier version of my new one because the FOV of mine is clearly wider than the FOV stated in the review. www.allbinos.com

Last edited by ceasar : Wednesday 14th November 2012 at 06:07. Reason: addenda
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Old Wednesday 14th November 2012, 18:38   #12
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Hallo Bob and ofcourse all others
Let me explain my background. Ik own House of Outdoor & Optics since 1993 and we have about 600 different models of almost every serious brand. I visit the several plants of the alfa's and beta's each year and this info of Kahles comes directly from the Kahles representative for the BeNeLux (Belgium Netherlands Luxemburg).
I have just now checked our Kahles supplie and on the binoculars is only mentioned Austria. And NOT: made in Austria. So they do not lie!!!! About 8 years ago I visited the plant and saw no production facilities of bino's.
Kahles is owned by Swarovski but is, within certain limits, an independent company.
In Europe Kahles representatives are just business companys who deliver to the retailers like us and they have different brands in their portefolio. There is no connection for them what so ever to Swarovski. In fact, almost nobody knows all this.
So in the Kahles samples I have there is no mentioning of where it is made, only Kahles Austria.
Indeed, the new models are upgraded but they can't stand in the shadow of Big Daddy.

Jan.
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Old Thursday 15th November 2012, 12:41   #13
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Jan,

I've seen occasional references to Kamakura Koki and Light Optical Works being the leading OEM suppliers of binoculars made in Japan. It's been said that Fujinon use Kamakura, but as to which makes what for the other brands, I have no idea. I've picked up higher priced Japanese made pairs from one company and thought the view looked remarkably similar to another brand, and it's tempting to think they are from the same production line. Have you any idea who makes what?

David
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Old Thursday 15th November 2012, 15:31   #14
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Hallo Bob and ofcourse all others
Let me explain my background. Ik own House of Outdoor & Optics since 1993 and we have about 600 different models of almost every serious brand. I visit the several plants of the alfa's and beta's each year and this info of Kahles comes directly from the Kahles representative for the BeNeLux (Belgium Netherlands Luxemburg).
I have just now checked our Kahles supplie and on the binoculars is only mentioned Austria. And NOT: made in Austria. So they do not lie!!!! About 8 years ago I visited the plant and saw no production facilities of bino's.
Kahles is owned by Swarovski but is, within certain limits, an independent company.
In Europe Kahles representatives are just business companys who deliver to the retailers like us and they have different brands in their portefolio. There is no connection for them what so ever to Swarovski. In fact, almost nobody knows all this.
So in the Kahles samples I have there is no mentioning of where it is made, only Kahles Austria.
Indeed, the new models are upgraded but they can't stand in the shadow of Big Daddy.

Jan.
Jan,

Thank you for helping to clear this up.

There is nothing on either of my Kahles binoculars to indicate where they were manufactured.

The CUSTOMER COPY of the warranty for my early model (Limited Lifetime warranty) was printed in the USA in 2002 and instructs that all repairs be sent to Kahles at 2 Slater Road, Cranston, Rhode Island 02920. This is the address of Swarovski of North America.

The copy of the warranty (11 year warranty) for my newer model is on the back of the Instruction Manual, which is not dated but it has Kahles's address and telephone number in Austria printed on it. For service and/or repairs the warranty says to send it back to the authorized dealer along with the warranty document or one can send it directly, delivery free, to Kahles in Austria for warranty repairs.

Curiously there is no technical data for the 8 x 32 in it. It only gives technical data for the 8 x 42 and 10 x 42 binoculars. I confirmed this with the dealer I purchased it from.

I have no experience with Swarovski's new "Big Daddy" Swarovisons but I don't think any binocular should be expected to compete with another binocular that costs more than twice as much as it does.

I can tell you that my Swarovski SLC 7 x 42 B is better than my new Kahles 8 x 32 and it should be. And the Kahles is not as good as my Nikon 8 x 32 SE porro prism is either.

But the Kahles is at least as good and better in some respects than both my Swarovski (2010) SLC 8 x 30 WB and my Nikon 8 x 32 LXL/HGL are. And that is very good indeed!

In a rating of 8 x 32 binoculars, Allbinos rates the Kahles 8 x 32 just below the Swarovski 8 x 32 EL. In their review of the Kahles they remark about the similarity of their high transmission graphs which both run from 90 to 92 in the visible spectrum.

http://www.allbinos.com/allbinos_ran...king-8x32.html

Thanks again for your response.

Bob

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Old Thursday 15th November 2012, 16:09   #15
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Kahles

David,

To understand how things work, first a short history. Perhaps you allready know it, but just in case!
The man who paved the road for Japanese optics to the western world is David P. Bushnell, a quartermaster with the U.S. occupying forces in Japan after World War II who was assigned to evaluate the products manufactured by the Japanese. He related that the optics were of an outstanding quality and very inexpensive, because Japanese optics derive mainly from a flexible manufactoring system of specialized firms, agglomarated as a cluster in the Northern area of Tokyo. This production system as a network was formed by small assembly and component manufacturers.
Bushnell started up his owm company and brought Japanese optics to the U.S. In the first few years 100% of all the produced Japanese binoculars were exported to the States and they took over 90% of the U.S. import market for more than a decade from mid 1950s.

In the present only some big giants are left over. Companies like Kamakura etc.
Kamakura R&D and produce optics for their own brand and for labels, like Bushnell. They also built optics for labels who do their own R&D, like Bushnell.
Bushnell, as a brand, does not make their own optics. They outsource that.
Fujinon does the same, but they also produce their own optics to be sure of a strict quality standard. You have to work for Fujinon to know which item is outsourced and which is not. Most brands outsource production, a few assemble by themselves (to make it legally "made in...." but the components are Japanese or Chinese made, only the labour....

Jan
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Old Thursday 15th November 2012, 18:01   #16
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David,
To continue the story:
So it is possible for labels to sell the same bino to the consumer with the difference that the rubber armouring notes the name of that label. The price difference is depending on a few items, such as: A. Positioning of the label in the market. High prices assume better quality. B. The quantity of the production. 100.000 pieces in a production round will make the bino cheaper than 10.000 pieces will do. C. Direct sell from label to consumer, or is there wholesale and retail in between. D. Tax and costs of life are different in countries. For example: the current Bushnell legend 8x42HD is sold in my shop for $699,00 as advized price. I know the prices of my collegues in de U.S.!!
E. Currency fluctuations. There was a time the English Pound made it extremely profitable to buy Swarovski's in England en a lot of friends of mine went over to New York for a shop till you drop weekend with the wife because of the $$$$$.

Jan
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Old Thursday 15th November 2012, 18:24   #17
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Brock,

Hardly encyclopedic. Kahles is still largely mysterious. I spelled the US representatives name wrong. It is Khabyes, not Khalyes. It appears to be a small family business. See more info below:

http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.ph...32&postcount=7

The binocular is lighter than it used to be with the new magnesium frame (I have the older version) but it is quite substantial in the hand. There are the same unchanged vertical ridges along the objective tubes that are reminiscent of the Leica Trinovid. Even the rainguard resembles the one that came with the Trinovid. It is also shorter than the Swarovski 8 x 30SLC and the Nikon 8 x 32LX L. Its exterior did not change. All changes made, other than the lighter frame, were to the optics. New coatings (visibly quite different on the objectives) and wider oculars and longer eye cups. Albinos indicates changes on the prism coatings too.

I'll have a longer report soon with some comparisons including a "reference standard." I want to spend a few hours with it at Hawk Mountain. Meanwhile, it's pretty darn good and easy to use.

As for the cost? It's made in western Europe. What can I say?

Bob
What you can say is that you own a European brand bin that's "Made in Japan".

I have no problem with that, I like Japanese optics, they used to be "Best Buys", but now with the yen/dollar thang, top Chinbins are better buys (the dollar has recently strengthened, so perhaps we'll see prices coming down).

When you do a review, which you should put in the equipment review section since it will get buried in this thread, please have somebody else take a look through the bins and comment on the CA control since you are apparently immune to CA. That was one of allbinos negatives "Medium in the centre, significant on the edge". This might be due to how short they are. The shorter the FL, the higher the CA it seems. That would be my biggest concerns, being sensitive to CA.

Arek rated the edges at 78%, does that still hold up with the wider FOV? If so, that would be a larger sweet spot.

A strong point was no vignetting of the exit pupils, which is fairly common midsized roofs even some in the $1,000 category. Since the body is identical, I'm wondering if the prisms could handle the wider EPs?

How is the color balance? Is it "warm," "cold" or "neutral"? Although Arek did liken the light graph to the EL, the EL's transmission extends further on the red end before taking a steep nose dive whereas the Kahles falls off earlier but has a more gradual slope on the red end.

P.S. Please elaborate on this statement:

But the Kahles is at least as good and better in some respects than both my Swarovski (2010) SLC 8 x 30 WB and my Nikon 8 x 32 LXL/HGL are

Thanks.

<B>

Last edited by brocknroller : Thursday 15th November 2012 at 23:03. Reason: P.S.
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Old Thursday 15th November 2012, 19:09   #18
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Jan,

Thanks for that. Yes I knew most of the story but I've lost track of the most recent history.

I noted that Kamakura sell under their own name in some countries. They have a factory in Dongguan as well. I can think of Chinese made pairs that seem very Japanese to me as well. With no real evidence it's interesting to speculate about similarities in individual pairs from Bushnell, Vixen, Opticron, Vortex, maybe even Kowa or the older Minox and probably others. Less confident about Pentax and Nikon though. I've not seen a Kahales yet.

David
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Old Thursday 15th November 2012, 20:13   #19
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David,

Bushnell, Opticron and Vortex have never, by my knowledge, made optics by themselves. In the past (and maybe still) the others produced some models and outsourced other models. So the optics of the first three are made, or can be made, in every optical plant in the world and some models are clones for sure.
Kowa, Minox, Pentax and Nikon have produced by themselves and also sell clones under their name. Kahles only has one model in three versions; 8x32, 8x42 and 10x42.
There is no need for them to go shopping around for a nicer price. The production quantity is low and their focus is more aimed at quality and personally I believe that Kamakura is making this model strict according to Kahles R&D specifications. So there will be no Chinese Kahles.
There are though many Chinese, Japanese, etc. made Bushnells, Vixens, Opticrons, Vortex Pentax and Nikon bino's.
Opticron is a british "clone" of the succes story of Bushnell. The founder (daddy) imported japanese optics and sold in mainly in the UK and now also on the continent. They have a very good and skilled repaircenter (like Bushnell has). Their label offers a lot of different models so the origin of countries will be divers. Kahles has just one model.

Jan.
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Old Thursday 15th November 2012, 23:42   #20
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I think that Kahles bins only having "Austria" stamped on the knob rather than "Made in Japan" is somewhat deceiving. ;{

As proof, here's an ad by Texas Nautical selling a used Kahles 8x32 bin.

Note the ad heading reads: Used Kahles 8x32 Binoculars Made in Austria

and at the end of the ad, they write: These are made in Austria.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-Kahles-...item4abc8aa97e

If even companies that repair and sell Kahles bins don't know where they are made, how much less would consumers?

As I said earlier, I like Japanese optics, but I don't like when a salesperson or a company tries to mislead me into thinking that a product is something that it's not.

<B>
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Old Friday 16th November 2012, 00:02   #21
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I'm thinking that some years ago, like Bob mentioned, the Kahles binoculars were made
in Austria, when they were part of Swarovski. I had an 8x42, back around 2007, but
when compared to the Swaro. 8.5x42, EL, the Swaro. simply was a great big step
better, with better brightness, and a much wider, better FOV. Now most know that
would be expected, comparing the EL with a mid-range.

I compared some specs. a while back, and it looks like they increased the FOV, maybe
went to ED glass, and have made some changes. That may be the switch to Japanese
made. I have not seen a single mention from a user, or review on the newer one.

There is a new distributor for Kahles now in the US, in Idaho, I believe, and they have posted before,
but a "Kahles" google search, leads to nothing much. I suppose communication helps.
If Eagle Optics is a retailer, they should offer some clarity. I do know they post here.

Jerry

Last edited by NDhunter : Friday 16th November 2012 at 00:13. Reason: Add on.
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Old Friday 16th November 2012, 03:20   #22
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Originally Posted by brocknroller View Post
What you can say is that you own a European brand bin that's "Made in Japan".

I have no problem with that, I like Japanese optics, they used to be "Best Buys", but now with the yen/dollar thang, top Chinbins are better buys (the dollar has recently strengthened, so perhaps we'll see prices coming down).

When you do a review, which you should put in the equipment review section since it will get buried in this thread, please have somebody else take a look through the bins and comment on the CA control since you are apparently immune to CA. That was one of allbinos negatives "Medium in the centre, significant on the edge". This might be due to how short they are. The shorter the FL, the higher the CA it seems. That would be my biggest concerns, being sensitive to CA.

Arek rated the edges at 78%, does that still hold up with the wider FOV? If so, that would be a larger sweet spot.

A strong point was no vignetting of the exit pupils, which is fairly common midsized roofs even some in the $1,000 category. Since the body is identical, I'm wondering if the prisms could handle the wider EPs?

How is the color balance? Is it "warm," "cold" or "neutral"? Although Arek did liken the light graph to the EL, the EL's transmission extends further on the red end before taking a steep nose dive whereas the Kahles falls off earlier but has a more gradual slope on the red end.

P.S. Please elaborate on this statement:

But the Kahles is at least as good and better in some respects than both my Swarovski (2010) SLC 8 x 30 WB and my Nikon 8 x 32 LXL/HGL are

Thanks.

<B>
Brock,

What I CAN say is that I made that statement about them being made in Western Europe (see thread # 17 above), which you refer to in your first paragraph, before I knew they were outsourced to Japan. Like everybody else here except Jan. Keep that stuff up and to paraphrase Churchill "you will manage to give journalists a bad name!"

I've used the binocular for nearly 6 months now. I usually take my time with reviews. I will have one out shortly and probably will put it in the equipment section as you suggested and link it here. Another alternative is to put it here with an easy title so it can be located easily in the search forum (if such a thing can be done) and link this thread to it.

If you look at the pictures of the Kahles you can see that it is slightly wider in the middle of the objective tubes than at the ends. Perhaps that is an indication that the prisms are sufficiently wide enough to handle the wider EPs? Although, I don't think they are wider or even different from the originals, just more of the lens is exposed. At any rate the FOV is wider, about the same as the SLC 8 x 30 and the Nikon 8 x 32-that is about 411' rather than 399' @ 1000 yards of the earlier model. Not really significant IMO but clearly wider than the Nikon 8 x 32 SE's 393 feet. It's center field sweet spot is about 80% with a slow taper off to the edge. It has slight pincushioning on the edges.

I will have to address the other questions when I do the review.

Bob

Last edited by ceasar : Friday 16th November 2012 at 03:32.
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Old Friday 16th November 2012, 15:05   #23
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There is a new distributor for Kahles now in the US, in Idaho, I believe, and they have posted before,
but a "Kahles" google search, leads to nothing much. I suppose communication helps.
If Eagle Optics is a retailer, they should offer some clarity. I do know they post here.

Jerry[/quote]

Someone PM'd me and asked that I chime in on what we know about the brand here at Eagle Optics. I'm really going to only report on what Khales tells us, rather than what we may speculate about country of origin, etc. I have not visited any of factories overseas myself.
I have a box of the current Khales 8x42's at my desk. The box states "Made In Austria". On the binocular itself, it simply states Khales Austria, no "made in" reference on the binocular itself.

Regarding some of the changes made to the binocular since it's previous generation, here is what someone from Khales in Austria told us:

By using bi-electric prism system we reach a light transmission bigger than 90%
Through the use of a Magnesium body we reduced weight significantly to offer one of the lightest bino in the market
Oil and dust resistant outside lenses
A very close focus

I realize it's not a lot of useful information and that's all we've got, but it's what we were told directly from Khales. What I can confirm is that the optics on the new model are indeed nicer than the Khales binoculars I saw 7 years ago or so.
Cheers,
Ben

Ben Lizdas
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www.eagleotpics.com
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Old Friday 16th November 2012, 19:07   #24
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[quote=blizdas;2591869]T
Quote:

Someone PM'd me and asked that I chime in on what we know about the brand here at Eagle Optics. I'm really going to only report on what Khales tells us, rather than what we may speculate about country of origin, etc. I have not visited any of factories overseas myself.
I have a box of the current Khales 8x42's at my desk. The box states "Made In Austria". On the binocular itself, it simply states Khales Austria, no "made in" reference on the binocular itself.

Regarding some of the changes made to the binocular since it's previous generation, here is what someone from Khales in Austria told us:

By using bi-electric prism system we reach a light transmission bigger than 90%
Through the use of a Magnesium body we reduced weight significantly to offer one of the lightest bino in the market
Oil and dust resistant outside lenses
A very close focus

I realize it's not a lot of useful information and that's all we've got, but it's what we were told directly from Khales. What I can confirm is that the optics on the new model are indeed nicer than the Khales binoculars I saw 7 years ago or so.
Cheers,
Ben

Ben Lizdas
Sales Manager
www.eagleotpics.com
Ben,

Thanks for that info. Now we know at least the box is "Made in Austria".

Perhaps Austrian companies are allowed to bend the truth a bit about "country of origin" if the bins are assembled in Austria. But it's curious they wouldn't come out and say they were made in Japan, if that's the story. Japanese optics are nothing to be ashamed of, some of the best in the world, and making them in Japan probably reduces the cost compared to manufacturing them in Austria.

I think "dielectric" prism coating is what he meant, which is another upgrade. If they are improved from the older version, which was rated highly by allbinos, just below the 8x32 EL WB, and just above the Kowa 8x33 Genesis, they must be pretty good. Hope somebody does a review of the new version.

I didn't know about the hydrophobic coatings. You should add that to your ad description, good selling point.

Brock
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Old Friday 16th November 2012, 23:04   #25
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I tried to find reviews of the "new and improved" Kahles bins, but only found one review by a nature photographer who won a pair at an event in Alaska. He was very bubbly about them, but had virtually no experience with bins, so fagetaboutit.

But this one is more interesting, a scanned reprint from Shooting Sports Magazine from this year (UK edition). Apparently, Kahles won "Best Binoculars" by shooters. So that tells you that they are quite sharp. The author said they compared "equally as well" to his Leica 8x56 BRFs.

http://www.opticsreview.com/wp-conte...O_.REVIEW1.pdf

Still need to hear from some birders. High resolution is good to hear, but what about color? contrast? flare control? CA control? These bins are made by a company known for its riflescopes. IOW, there are primarily marketed to hunters. The closer focus on the latest models (5 ft. on the 8x32 model) suggests that the company is trying to get some crossover sales from birders.

I saw an Kahles 8x42neu on ebay for $724. That's a nice a' price vs. $1,200 for the Kowa 8x33 Genesis. More pincushion than the Genesis, aber nicht zu veil.

From allbinos review, I'd say the main question is if they improved the CA control and also the QC. Arek gave the 10x42 model poor marks for QC since it had "huge specks" of dust glued to the prisms, making "them equal with the worst products from Chinese factories". Is Japanese QC slipping? Or weren't these earlier samples made in Japan, as Jerry suggested?

http://www.allbinos.com/141-binocula...les_10x42.html

<B>

Last edited by brocknroller : Saturday 17th November 2012 at 00:52. Reason: added CA control
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