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British and Irish..or just British? (1 Viewer)

KenM

KenM

Well-known member
It's interesting that there are UK birders that do not differentiate between their respective British and Irish lists, and those that do.

On the basis that every man or (woman) has his/her price, and assuming that the former group are in the minority?

Hypothetically speaking...If Ireland was to host for e.g. an overwintering Wall Creeper, Hawk Owl, and Varied Thrush similtaneously (or birds of this magnitude..and were all accessible), I acknowledge this being a very unlikely trinity.

Nevertheless. I wonder what percentage of the latter group might just ''jump ship'' and join the former?

Just wishing I could be in Galway right now. ;)
 
KenM said:
Hypothetically speaking...If Ireland was to host for e.g. an overwintering Wall Creeper, Hawk Owl, and Varied Thrush similtaneously (or birds of this magnitude..and were all accessible), I wonder what percentage of the latter group might just ''jump ship'' and join the former
Click to expand...


If you view Ireland as just part of Europe, then the first two are both already easily accessible on an annual basis, so I would suppose would not give too much a push to those in the UK only camp. Varied Thrush, Black Skimmer and Eastern Kingbird all sitting together would be far more tempting ...mind you Eastern Kingbird is probably one of the least stunning American birds you can find, so maybe with a Ruby-throated Hummingbird instead ;)

PS I saw the Wallcreeper in France a couple of years back and the White Cliffs of Dover were clearly visible, surely that gives greater reason to add it to my British list than on the far side of another EU country? :)
 
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Now that really is a magical trio, however unlikely it may be!!

To be honest, I've always been of the opinion that "you pay your money and make your choice", it's each to their own, people should twitch whatever they want to twitch and not worry about what others may think. With regards to those 3 special birds, it wouldn't actually make any difference to me, I've always thought that if I couldn't persuade myself to go for the Blue winged or Canada Warblers then I wouldn't go for anything.
 
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I can't really see the point of this thread:eek!:

But since it's here, a couple of thoughts:
Firstly, I wonder how many people would twitch N Ireland, but not Eire?
That would be keeping the British List 'pure'.
Do the same people not twitch the Isle of Man?
(and let's not start talking about the Channel Islands)
Secondly, is the vast majority of twitching decisions not made with distance, time and money as the most important issues. Are people in Wales more tempted to twitch a good bird in Ireland or a good bird on Fair Isle?
Thirdly, (just for interest;)) I have my mobile set up for RBA texts of birds I haven't seen in the UK(!) but recently decided to alter the setting to not receive 'off island' info. So now I don't get texts of Magnolia Warbler, but still got one on the White's Thrush on Farne! Explain that:eat:
Finally, why do people keep on asking the same questions which have already been answered elsewhere (like this thread)8-P
 
David Norgate said:
But since it's here, a couple of thoughts:

Firstly, ....

Secondly, ....

Thirdly, ....

Finally, why do people keep on asking the same questions which have already been answered elsewhere (like this thread)8-P
Click to expand...

Why do people keep on saying they have a couple of thoughts/questions which then turn into many more? 8-P
 
Jos Stratford said:
Why do people keep on saying they have a couple of thoughts/questions which then turn into many more? 8-P
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It was a couple of couplesB :)

Edit: It took me a few definitions but:

1 a: two persons married, engaged, or otherwise romantically paired

b: two persons paired together

2: pair, brace


3: something that joins or links two things together: as

a: two equal and opposite forces that act along parallel lines

b: a pair of substances that in contact with an electrolyte participate in a transfer of electrons which causes an electric current to flow

4: an indefinite small number : few <a couple of days ago>
 
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Jos Stratford said:
PS I saw the Wallcreeper in France a couple of years back and the White Cliffs of Dover were clearly visible, surely that goves greater reason to add it to my British list than onthe far side of another EU country? :)
Click to expand...

That might constitute an intriguing new list!...Birds seen in France with one eye!..with the other eye being on Blighty!

I wonder If any other Brit. has seen for e.g. Tawny Pipit or Crested Lark on the same basis?

Now there's a list to consider!
 
David Norgate said:
I can't really see the point of this thread:eek!:
Finally, why do people keep on asking the same questions which have already been answered elsewhere (like this thread)8-P
Click to expand...

It's called ''displaced frustration''.....when you can't access what you want..for whatever reason, and occasionally boredom. :smoke:
 
KenM said:
It's interesting that there are UK birders that do not differentiate between their respective British and Irish lists, and those that do.

On the basis that every man or (woman) has his/her price, and assuming that the former group are in the minority?

QUOTE]

Peronally, I'm always a little surprised that there appear to be birders whose "British List" does not include Ireland since "British" here surely applies to the "British Isles" (i.e. Great Britain, IoM and Ireland) rather than just "Great Britain" .

As I recall, for many years, even after independence, the 'British List' as maintained by the BOU continued to include Ireland. Hiving off the Irish component, in historical terms, is relatively recent and, whilst it may make sense politically, this does not mean individuals should feel bound to follow the example . As a geographical unit a 'British List' which includes Ireland makes a lot of sense. Given that much of the earlier literature includes Ireland within this term it makes practical sense too. The Channel Islands are an anomaly, but as they are so obviously a separate geographical unit closer in affinities to France it makes much sense to exclude them.

As for the second sentence, I confess that I'm not entirely sure what it means as it seems both incomplete and not a question, despite the "?".
Click to expand...
 
David Norgate said:
I can't really see the point of this thread:eek!:

Firstly, I wonder how many people would twitch N Ireland, but not Eire?
That would be keeping the British List 'pure'.

David

Have a shufty at your passport " The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland"

To keep the list pure stay onshore!

Amy
Click to expand...
 
For me its simple; when I started twitching the British List excluded Ireland and therefore thats what I list to. I can understand some of the "older hands" still wishing to keep their B&I List going. The crunch would be if say a Canada Warbler turned up in a difficult location eg Fair Isle; how many who ticked it for their B&I list would feel an urge to tick it just for Britain?
 
Seeing as I now live in northern ireland, after moving here from Norfolk I have no problem adding birds seen in northern Ireland. To my British list and have never in the 12 years I've lived here twitched Ireland been tempted tho it's either British or Irish for me lists I'm talking about!!!!
 
AmyN said:
Have a shufty at your passport " The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland"

To keep the list pure stay onshore!

Amy
Click to expand...

Onshore? Does that mean no Isle of Wight?!?
As for in Norfolk, I'm quite happy with that, since an site here has has three county firsts, all suppressed, that I don't count because it's an island:smoke:
 
John Cantelo said:
KenM said:
It's interesting that there are UK birders that do not differentiate between their respective British and Irish lists, and those that do.

On the basis that every man or (woman) has his/her price, and assuming that the former group are in the minority?

QUOTE

As for the second sentence, I confess that I'm not entirely sure what it means as it seems both incomplete and not a question, despite the "?".
Click to expand...

John..the thrust of the thread was to attempt to determine how flexible people might be...regarding the integrity of their respective ''hallowed'' lists.

Having proposed the hypothetical scenario...a finite number of megas in Ireland..to tempt the purists across the Irish Sea...Does the previous ''UK and Northern Ireland list''..then morph into a British Isles list, or is it kept seperate?

The reason I ask..is that perhaps being of Celtic/English origin, I've not felt the need to seperate the ''regions'' and although I have never twitched Ireland..I just might for an ''accessible'' Hawk Owl/Black Skimmer etc. (hence every man has his price..John), therefore I would have no issue..if it was ever to arise, I suspect it might be for some though?
Click to expand...
 
I can see no harm in a British and Irish list, any more than a fieldguide covering "Britain and Europe" or "Europe and the Middle East". The very term "British and Irish" correctly acknowledges that Irish is not British and as such is a pure list. It is a group of islands geographically and it makes sense for people to keep a list that covers such an area.

Counting birds seen in Ireland on your "British list" - now that is wrong, but then again that wasn't the question was it? ;)
 
This is not a new question, but we have a new situation looming: the impending exit of Scotland from the UK (and, allegedly, the EU: I have heard they will have to negotiate re-entry). That will leave the UK as England, Wales, Northern Ireland, but not Scotland (including Orkney and Shetland though the Shetlanders, content to be part of UK, have suggested they might prefer Norway's rule to His oiliness the Salmond) or the Isle of Man which has always maintained its own parliament. Eire of course is already a separate country.

So who is going to list the UK then?

It makes much more sense as well as being zoogeographically coherent to list the British Isles, an archipelago about whose limits nobody is in doubt.

But of course all can just do as they like and continue to squabble about it. What else are pubs for but lively discussion when there are no rarities to twitch?

John
 
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