• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Zeiss 15x50 BGAT vs Carl Zeiss Jena 10x50 Dekaris (1 Viewer)

Para_Mon

Member
Hello, everybody.
I would like to ask some advice concerning choice of the binoculars.
I was offered two binoculars:
1. Zeiss 15x60 BGAT. The bino is in an excellent technical and cosmetic condition. Last produced serie (SN: 648XXX). The bino is from a private collection. Made in Germany, not in West Germany. The price is 1800 EUR.
2. Carl Zeiss Jena 10x50 Dekaris. The bino is also in in an excellent technical and cosmetic condition, from a private collection. The price is 300 EUR.
What do I need from the binoculars? I would like to use it for birds viewing, in mountains, for sea voyages, astronomy and so on.
I understand that the binoculars with such optical formula (15x60) needs a tripod. It is not a big problem for me. Some people advise me to buy Dekaris for 300 EUR. Then I could spend the difference of 1500 EUR or even less for buying some instrument which will be good especially for astronomy. I do not know which variant to choose. Ideally I would like to have some universal binoculars, one binoculars for all my needs.
I would like to ask people who already used Zeiss 15x60 BGAT and compared it with other binoculars. I understand that the mechanically this bino is excellent. But how good is this bino optically in comparison with Carl Zeiss Jena 10x50 Dekaris? Does it really cost its price?
I would also say that I want to buy Zeiss binoculars only. I understand that the price is high owing to the brand name. But I would like to have the binoculars not only of a high quality but also as a good collector’s item.
 
Challenging question because there are probably only a handful of people who could speak from experience using the 15x60 as their normal binoculars.
The 15x60 Zeiss is just big and bulky, with a 15 meter close focus and only a 4.6 degree field of view. but the eye relief is ok, at least on par with the Jena 10x50s. Neither are go anywhere glasses of course.
Having happily used a Jena 12x50 Nobilem as my all purpose glass, I believe you would be pleased with the big Zeiss, at least until you start to want to have a camera along as well. ;)
 
Welcome.

The 15 x 60 is very nice to use and bright, but the price seems a bit high.
If the weight and cost are not a problem then it would be a good binocular for your purposes.
But of course there are many ways to spend 1800 euros.

Good luck whatever your choice.

P.S.
The Zeiss 15 x 60 may not be waterproof and also may be susceptible to fungus after a long time in damp conditions.
However, the Canon 18 x 50 IS is not properly waterproof either.
A modern 15 x 56 waterproof binocular may be more suitable?
 
Last edited:
Welcome.

The 15 x 60 is very nice to use and bright, but the price seems a bit high.
If the weight and cost are not a problem then it would be a good binocular for your purposes.
But of course there are many ways to spend 1800 euros.

Good luck whatever your choice.

P.S.
The Zeiss 15 x 60 may not be waterproof and also may be susceptible to fungus after a long time in damp conditions.
However, the Canon 18 x 50 IS is not properly waterproof either.
A modern 15 x 56 waterproof binocular may be more suitable?

Yes, the price is very high but now all these binos are high priced. Firstly, because of a brend name. Secondly, it is very hard to find this bino now and in an excellent condition.
 
The 15x60 BGAT was the last version of the 15x60 before it was discontinued. Its coatings are top-notch and the optical performance is excellent. The 10x50 Dekaris is *a lot* older and in a different class altogether.

A 15x60BGAT in good shape should run circles around it.

Hermann
 
The 15x60 BGAT was the last version of the 15x60 before it was discontinued. Its coatings are top-notch and the optical performance is excellent. The 10x50 Dekaris is *a lot* older and in a different class altogether.

A 15x60BGAT in good shape should run circles around it.

Hermann

Thank you, Herman, for your reply.

What is your idea about comparison between Zeiss 15x60 BGAT and Docter Nobilem 15x60? The last one is a great bino too but new one costs a half price from a 20 years Zeiss 15x60 BGAT. Why is so difference in prices? Brand Zeiss, collectors value or technical/optical qualities?
 
What is your idea about comparison between Zeiss 15x60 BGAT and Docter Nobilem 15x60? The last one is a great bino too but new one costs a half price from a 20 years Zeiss 15x60 BGAT. Why is so difference in prices? Brand Zeiss, collectors value or technical/optical qualities?

The price difference is to some extent probably due to a different construction. The 15x60BGAT has air-spaced achromats as objective lenses to keep the length down (allows a faster f-ratio), the Docter doesn't. Air-spaced achromats need to be adjusted by hand, and that's from all I know a process that takes a lot of skill and time.

The optics - well, I don't know the Docter well enough to comment, and I never had a chance to do a side-by-side comparison. The one I looked through seemed very good indeed.

If I were to buy a 15x60 for use, I'd probably look at the Docter and also the Swarovski 15x56 and the Zeiss Conquest HD 15x56).

Hermann
 
The price difference is to some extent probably due to a different construction. The 15x60BGAT has air-spaced achromats as objective lenses to keep the length down (allows a faster f-ratio), the Docter doesn't. Air-spaced achromats need to be adjusted by hand, and that's from all I know a process that takes a lot of skill and time.

The optics - well, I don't know the Docter well enough to comment, and I never had a chance to do a side-by-side comparison. The one I looked through seemed very good indeed.

If I were to buy a 15x60 for use, I'd probably look at the Docter and also the Swarovski 15x56 and the Zeiss Conquest HD 15x56).

Hermann

So, if I understand you right, Zeiss 15x60 GBAT is a collector's bino, just to put it on the shelf and look at it and be very proud of having it in the collection. Maybe sometimes using but not often. And on the contrary, Nobilem is for everyday using.
 
No.
The 15x60 Zeiss should be used, not looked at.
Just because it is expensive doesn't mean it is a museum piece.
It is a fine binocular even today.
Air spaced optics can have different curves on each surface and an air gap is also variable.

Minox make large binoculars also.
 
No.
The 15x60 Zeiss should be used, not looked at.
Just because it is expensive doesn't mean it is a museum piece.
It is a fine binocular even today.
Air spaced optics can have different curves on each surface and an air gap is also variable.

Minox make large binoculars also.

Hello Binastro,

Someone described using the 15x60 Zeiss for astronomy as a "religious" experience. When I looked at Orion's belt through the Zeiss, I understood what he meant.
I believe that the glass may have been made for European hunting, done from hides or from elevated platforms, where the high magnification and excellent light gathering ability were more important than being able to hand hold the glass.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur
 
Thank you, Binastro and Pinewood, for good words in support of Zeiss 15x60 BGAT. I think your information will help me to made a correct choice and buy this excellent bino.
 
I have maybe an earlier version of the Zeiss 15 x 60, which has been completely overhauled by Zeiss.
Even this is very nice to use although a bit heavy for me nowadays.
Quite a while ago I used to handhold 20×80 binoculars for long periods and was able to keep them steady. I think they weighed about 2.4 kg.
At night the surface brightness of the image with the Zeiss 15 x 60 is much brighter than the Canon 18×50 although for ultimate resolution the Canon is much better with the stabiliser on than the Zeiss binocular although the difference would be less with the Zeiss binocular tripod mounted. Personally, I almost never use binoculars on tripods. To me the whole point of a binocular is the manoeuvrability handheld.
So both are very good for astronomy but maybe for different objects.

The outer belt stars in the Orion constellation are from memory 2.736° apart. So the 4.6° Field of the Zeiss 15 x 60 would nicely encompass them.
I think that any good quality 15 x 60, 15×56, 16×56, 15×58 etc binocular with good coatings is nice to use although they are heavy. Normally I use a 12×56 lighter weight lower-priced roof prism binocular, which is more manageable for me. Even this gives very good views.
 
I have just got a reply from Zeiss. The bino SN says that it was made in 1993 but the seller said that it was the last BGAT serie.
I suppose the last serie was made in 1998. Please correct me if I am not right.
 
I have just got a reply from Zeiss. The bino SN says that it was made in 1993 but the seller said that it was the last BGAT serie.
I suppose the last serie was made in 1998. Please correct me if I am not right.

Hello Para_Mons,

Zeiss had an additional run, around 2003.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :hi:
 
. Manufacturers sometimes decide to make a new batch of an item that is discontinued.
So is it really discontinued or not?

Nikon made a new batch of rangefinder film cameras, which were discontinued decades before. The new lenses had better coatings but I don't know if mechanically the cameras were better, worse or the same.

Will Zeiss ever make another batch of 15 x 60 binoculars? I suppose it is possible.

What I would say is that anybody who buys a binocular or a camera as an investment is most unlikely to make a profit in real terms in the long run. I.e. the value will not keep up with inflation. There may be rare exceptions, but I think this is true with any production optical product.
If you buy it at half price it will just take longer to depreciate but eventually even the half price you paid you will not get back in real terms.
The exception is of course if a repairer or restorer buys a binocular for a very small sum when it is in bad condition and then restores it almost to new condition.
But even here, if one puts a true monetary value on the skilled labour then one might not actually make a profit. But it is likely that the restorer just enjoys doing it and ends up with a fine binocular bought for very little money.

The other possible way of making a profit is if you're very lucky and find a top-quality binocular in a charity shop for next to nothing. This does happen but maybe not very often.
A friend found a tiny camera in a junk box for 4 pounds and immediately sold it for £2000. The owner thought it was a toy, but it was actually a tiny plate camera, very rare and old.
I found a Leitz 7×50 binocular for 5 pounds in a junk box if and it is worth more than this. The name was hidden under the as new thick rubber covers. I didn't know what it was until I got it home. But the view looked very good for 5 pounds.
I have not found a 15 x 60 Zeiss B GAT binocular for a fiver but here's hoping.
 
Last edited:
Thank you. So you want to say that Zeiss team was mistaken telling about 1993. Or it was the seller who was mistaken?

Hello Para_Mon,

The 15x60, which I saw, was purchased new, in the USA, in 2003. The purchase had to "special order" it.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :hi:
 
I have just got a reply from Zeiss. The bino SN says that it was made in 1993 but the seller said that it was the last BGAT serie.
I suppose the last serie was made in 1998. Please correct me if I am not right.

Ask for a photo showing the eyepieces. The GAT had small, concave eyelenses (it used, like all its predecessors, Erfle eyepieces) and hard plastic eyecups, whereas the BGAT had the standard largish, flat eyelenses of many other Zeiss binoculars, for instance the Dialyt 10x40 BGATP or the Dialyt 7x42 BGATP, and rubber eyecups.

The BGAT was, in fact, the last model of the 15x60, so in that sense the seller is right. (15x60 -> 15x60 GAT -> 15x60 BGAT)

Hermann
 
Hello Para_Mon,

The 15x60, which I saw, was purchased new, in the USA, in 2003. The purchase had to "special order" it.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :hi:

I am sorry, but I cannot understand you well. Maybe because I am not a native English. I want ot say that my seller told me that his Zeiss 15x60 BGAT is from the last 648xxx serie. I wrote to Zeiss and asked them the year of production. They said that the bino was made in 1993. But I am 100 % sure that the last serie was made later than in 1993, probably in 1998 or 2003. So my seller was mistaken, or just lies.
 
Ask for a photo showing the eyepieces. The GAT had small, concave eyelenses (it used, like all its predecessors, Erfle eyepieces) and hard plastic eyecups, whereas the BGAT had the standard largish, flat eyelenses of many other Zeiss binoculars, for instance the Dialyt 10x40 BGATP or the Dialyt 7x42 BGATP, and rubber eyecups.

The BGAT was, in fact, the last model of the 15x60, so in that sense the seller is right. (15x60 -> 15x60 GAT -> 15x60 BGAT)

Hermann

Thanks for that. Ten years ago I was told by a salesman at Scope City, San Francisco, that the 7x42 B/GAT*P* was unique in that it had concave eye lenses. He probably got that confused with earlier models. Mystery solved.

Ed :t:
 
Warning! This thread is more than 10 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top