Join for FREE
It only takes a minute!
More discoveries. NEW: Zeiss Victory SF 32

Welcome to BirdForum.
BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE! You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

If you own both 10x and 8x, in what situations do you use each?

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old Wednesday 1st April 2020, 16:19   #26
amears
Registered User

 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bath, Somerset
Posts: 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by pshute View Post
Meaning the 8's were better in low light? I sometimes wonder if comparisons like this depend more on each pair's optics rather than just the magnification. Eg better coatings, leading to higher contrast, etc.

Same reason?

One night a friend and I compared my 8x42's with his 10x50's looking at kangaroos in the near dark. We couldn't really tell the difference.
Scops Owl: This was a pretty fair test actually. Both pairs were 32mm, the 8x were top of the range Leica a few years old, the 10x new top of the range Swaros. Me and my mate each tried both, and each saw the same effect. (I think I wrote earlier they were both new Swaros. That was wrong, sorry, but they were both top of the range and both 32mm.)

Pechora: Not quite so fair, both were top of the range 32mm Leicas but the 10x was a considerably older model and it was just our individual experiences on the day. I suppose this example is about light and field of view combined...
amears is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 2nd April 2020, 15:32   #27
wdc
Registered User
 
wdc's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Moraga, California
Posts: 637
For almost an entire year, I birded one or twice a week with a 10x42 pair. The reasoning was primarily aesthetic. I just enjoyed the opportunity to be a little closer to the birds I was viewing. Most of the time, I knew the area, so wasn't confounded by terrain or foliage, so maximizing field of view was not on the agenda. In December, I got a scope and started hauling that around, so reverted to an 8x42, which I could one hand. I did not notice a significant difference visually, going back to the 8x in terms of the view, to be honest, with the exception that the view was steadier. Recently, I started carrying an 8x32 with the scope, which is even easier to one hand. Once you carry a scope, a 2x difference in magnification seems rather insignificant compared to a rock steady view at 30x or more. Also, birding is often more of an object/target/behavior oriented activity, not so much the field as whole, as the bird is the center of attention. I think the visual payoff for carrying 10 over 8 is actually when the birds are relatively close, not far away.

If I go out without the scope, I usually go right back to the 10x, because that particular bin (Noctivid) for me is a great fit. I think it has more to do with eye relief and perhaps AFOV than anything else.

There may be situations where a 2x difference, and relative light levels/exit pupil could make a critical difference in ID, or level of detail, but I've not yet encountered them in my regular birding outings.

-Bill

Last edited by wdc : Thursday 2nd April 2020 at 18:02.
wdc is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 2nd April 2020, 21:49   #28
WJC
Registered User
 
WJC's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Twin Falls, Idaho
Posts: 2,450
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadWest View Post
As I consider adding a pair of 10x42 to my current single pair of 8x42, I am interested to hear about which birding situations best lend themselves to each magnification. When do you opt for the 10x and vice versa? Thanks.
HeadWest,

I use the Nikon 8x32 SE. The correct response to that should be, “Who bloody cares?” For birding, 8 to 10 power rules the roost. Most of it comes down to personal preference. I’ve seen “conscientious” shoppers look out my window at Captain’s with two or three binoculars for more than 2 hours, which would only tell an integrity-challenged salesperson that they are clueless and ripe for the picking. Good advertising need not be accurate or even meaningful. It has only to be believed.

If you do your homework BEFORE going shopping, you can go through a bevy of 20 binoculars in 20 minutes—30 if you’re slow of thought. One size does not fit all. Many, if not most, first or second-time binocular shoppers are unfamiliar with some of the more important aspects of a good image or physical attributes of the instrument. In addition, some folks blame every undesirable facet of a view on the instrument when the largest portion of the problem lies with our own physiological differences, shortcomings, and irrelevant conditions that are most useful for bragging sessions on binocular forums.

My first telescope was a Gilbert 3-inch reflector in a paper tube, with a built-in plastic focuser and EP combination. With it, I saw Venus, Saturn, Mars, and Jupiter in that order. As an adult, I’ve owned several of the finest amateur telescopes known to man. With them, I have seen Distortion, Chromatic Aberration, Coma, Astigmatism, Field Curvature, etc. When do you think I had the most pleasure under the stars? U betcha!

No, the above was NOT politically correct. Political correctness just trades COMMUNICATION for OBFUSCATION which hides facts and confuses the honest truth seeker.

The succinct bottom line:

Buy a 30 to 40 millimeter binocular with an 8 to 10 magnification and use it until YOU see a reason to NEED something else. I have it on solid authority that the birds ... don’t care!

Finally, 8 and 10 power are so close, it usually (though not always) takes a nitnoid to get spun up over the difference.

Good Hunting,

Bill
__________________
— More often than not, our understanding rests with the magnitude of our humble willingness to understand.

Last edited by WJC : Thursday 2nd April 2020 at 21:55.
WJC is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 3rd April 2020, 02:22   #29
eronald
Registered User

 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Paris
Posts: 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by WJC View Post
HeadWest,

I use the Nikon 8x32 SE. The correct response to that should be, “Who bloody cares?” For birding, 8 to 10 power rules the roost. Most of it comes down to personal preference. I’ve seen “conscientious” shoppers look out my window at Captain’s with two or three binoculars for more than 2 hours, which would only tell an integrity-challenged salesperson that they are clueless and ripe for the picking. Good advertising need not be accurate or even meaningful. It has only to be believed.

If you do your homework BEFORE going shopping, you can go through a bevy of 20 binoculars in 20 minutes—30 if you’re slow of thought. One size does not fit all. Many, if not most, first or second-time binocular shoppers are unfamiliar with some of the more important aspects of a good image or physical attributes of the instrument. In addition, some folks blame every undesirable facet of a view on the instrument when the largest portion of the problem lies with our own physiological differences, shortcomings, and irrelevant conditions that are most useful for bragging sessions on binocular forums.

My first telescope was a Gilbert 3-inch reflector in a paper tube, with a built-in plastic focuser and EP combination. With it, I saw Venus, Saturn, Mars, and Jupiter in that order. As an adult, I’ve owned several of the finest amateur telescopes known to man. With them, I have seen Distortion, Chromatic Aberration, Coma, Astigmatism, Field Curvature, etc. When do you think I had the most pleasure under the stars? U betcha!

No, the above was NOT politically correct. Political correctness just trades COMMUNICATION for OBFUSCATION which hides facts and confuses the honest truth seeker.

The succinct bottom line:

Buy a 30 to 40 millimeter binocular with an 8 to 10 magnification and use it until YOU see a reason to NEED something else. I have it on solid authority that the birds ... don’t care!

Finally, 8 and 10 power are so close, it usually (though not always) takes a nitnoid to get spun up over the difference.

Good Hunting,

Bill
Let me summarise that for you Bill - the best binocular for birdwatching is the one you actually have with you :)

On the other hand, I took my son up the Eiffel tower on a day with poor light. My 8x25 Zeiss Pocket let me observe planes taxying and taking off and landing at Roissy, 40 km away. My UV HD 7x42 Leica just couldnt resolve this as well. The LEica is usually the glass I much prefer using. In this case there was a real difference. Go figure ...

Edmund

Last edited by eronald : Friday 3rd April 2020 at 02:27.
eronald is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 3rd April 2020, 02:55   #30
WJC
Registered User
 
WJC's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Twin Falls, Idaho
Posts: 2,450
Quote:
Originally Posted by eronald View Post
Let me summarise that for you Bill - the best binocular for birdwatching is the one you actually have with you :)

Edmund
BINGO! All that blather up front was just to set the stage for the last two lines!
__________________
— More often than not, our understanding rests with the magnitude of our humble willingness to understand.
WJC is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 3rd April 2020, 06:32   #31
Troubador
Moderator
 
Troubador's Avatar

 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 10,234
Quote:
Originally Posted by eronald View Post
Let me summarise that for you Bill - the best binocular for birdwatching is the one you actually have with you :)

On the other hand, I took my son up the Eiffel tower on a day with poor light. My 8x25 Zeiss Pocket let me observe planes taxying and taking off and landing at Roissy, 40 km away. My UV HD 7x42 Leica just couldnt resolve this as well. The LEica is usually the glass I much prefer using. In this case there was a real difference. Go figure ...

Edmund
Edmund

I wonder if a pocket of heated air, causing 'shimmering' got between the Leica and the planes at Roissy. I have a big respect for the Zeiss Pocket but the Leica is no slouch either, although it is only 7x which might have also contributed to the result.

Lee
__________________
"You are never alone, with a sheep"
Troubador is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 3rd April 2020, 15:28   #32
Pileatus
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 2,655
Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by WJC View Post
HeadWest,

I use the Nikon 8x32 SE. The correct response to that should be, “Who bloody cares?” For birding, 8 to 10 power rules the roost. Most of it comes down to personal preference. I’ve seen “conscientious” shoppers look out my window at Captain’s with two or three binoculars for more than 2 hours, which would only tell an integrity-challenged salesperson that they are clueless and ripe for the picking. Good advertising need not be accurate or even meaningful. It has only to be believed.

If you do your homework BEFORE going shopping, you can go through a bevy of 20 binoculars in 20 minutes—30 if you’re slow of thought. One size does not fit all. Many, if not most, first or second-time binocular shoppers are unfamiliar with some of the more important aspects of a good image or physical attributes of the instrument. In addition, some folks blame every undesirable facet of a view on the instrument when the largest portion of the problem lies with our own physiological differences, shortcomings, and irrelevant conditions that are most useful for bragging sessions on binocular forums.

My first telescope was a Gilbert 3-inch reflector in a paper tube, with a built-in plastic focuser and EP combination. With it, I saw Venus, Saturn, Mars, and Jupiter in that order. As an adult, I’ve owned several of the finest amateur telescopes known to man. With them, I have seen Distortion, Chromatic Aberration, Coma, Astigmatism, Field Curvature, etc. When do you think I had the most pleasure under the stars? U betcha!

No, the above was NOT politically correct. Political correctness just trades COMMUNICATION for OBFUSCATION which hides facts and confuses the honest truth seeker.

The succinct bottom line:

Buy a 30 to 40 millimeter binocular with an 8 to 10 magnification and use it until YOU see a reason to NEED something else. I have it on solid authority that the birds ... don’t care!

Finally, 8 and 10 power are so close, it usually (though not always) takes a nitnoid to get spun up over the difference.

Good Hunting,

Bill
The best thing about an 8X32 SE (dinky old porro) is that people do not take you seriously and, as a result, they leave you alone.
Pileatus is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 4th April 2020, 03:31   #33
pshute
Registered User

 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by WJC View Post
I’ve seen “conscientious” shoppers look out my window at Captain’s with two or three binoculars for more than 2 hours, which would only tell an integrity-challenged salesperson that they are clueless and ripe for the picking.
You're a dealer? I've spent ages in shops comparing binoculars, not to work out which is best, but to see if I can see ANY difference, in order to convince myself to buy them. Haven't been very successful.**

I suspect what would be needed to convince people like me would be a special test range that could simulate the marginal conditions where there is a useful difference. Eg, at what distance can I see the lighter margin of a test target feather? Or at what light level can I not see it with pair A, but can see it with pair B?

Instead we make do with pigeons in the park that we can id with the naked eye anyway, and it's not till we've bought them (not the pigeons) and used them a lot that we start to think, yes, I'm doing better with these.

** I once came home near convinced that a pair of Swarovskis was for me because when I'd tried them in the shop that day, my eyes just relaxed and they felt great. Then I discovered my glasses were twisted out of alignment, making all binoculars appear to be out of collimation. So what was wrong with that pair of Swarovskis?
pshute is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 4th April 2020, 04:39   #34
Alexis Powell
Registered User

 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: LY+DG counties, Kansas, USA
Posts: 3,387
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadWest View Post
As I consider adding a pair of 10x42 to my current single pair of 8x42, I am interested to hear about which birding situations best lend themselves to each magnification. When do you opt for the 10x and vice versa? Thanks.
I find that 8x (or 8.5x) binoculars work best for me in all situations due to their wider FOV and more generous DOF, so I use them in all birding situations. If I need more magnification, I use a scope because the jump from 8x to 10x usually isn't sufficient to be of much benefit. Nevertheless, I also own 10x bins. I use them to alleviate my concern that I might be missing out on something or not be ready for some sort of birding situation if I didn't have them. Since I could use them if I wanted to, I am free to choose not to use them, which is what I do.

--AP
Alexis Powell is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 4th April 2020, 12:47   #35
Troubador
Moderator
 
Troubador's Avatar

 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 10,234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexis Powell View Post

I also own 10x bins.

Since I could use them if I wanted to, I am free to choose not to use them, which is what I do.

--AP
Hmmm. Sounds rather masochistic Alexis
Do you buy chocolate cake and don't eat it too?

Sorry, English sense of humour gushing out after being confined to home for too long.

Lee
__________________
"You are never alone, with a sheep"
Troubador is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 4th April 2020, 15:33   #36
WJC
Registered User
 
WJC's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Twin Falls, Idaho
Posts: 2,450
Quote:
Originally Posted by pshute View Post
You're a dealer? I've spent ages in shops comparing binoculars, not to work out which is best, but to see if I can see ANY difference, in order to convince myself to buy them. Haven't been very successful.**

I suspect what would be needed to convince people like me would be a special test range that could simulate the marginal conditions where there is a useful difference. Eg, at what distance can I see the lighter margin of a test target feather? Or at what light level can I not see it with pair A, but can see it with pair B?

Instead we make do with pigeons in the park that we can id with the naked eye anyway, and it's not till we've bought them (not the pigeons) and used them a lot that we start to think, yes, I'm doing better with these.

** I once came home near convinced that a pair of Swarovskis was for me because when I'd tried them in the shop that day, my eyes just relaxed and they felt great. Then I discovered my glasses were twisted out of alignment, making all binoculars appear to be out of collimation. So what was wrong with that pair of Swarovskis?
I haven’t been a retailer in 12 years. But:

— A retailer for 21 years.
— A tech writer and author of optical material and telescope making for 29 years.
— A boots on the ground optical technician and engineer, Military & Civilian, for 45 years.
— A telescope maker for 55 years.
— A fellow with a tremendous interest in optics from the age of 8 ... 61 years ago.

Bill
__________________
— More often than not, our understanding rests with the magnitude of our humble willingness to understand.
WJC is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Reply


Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

{googleads}

Fatbirder's Top 1000 Birding Websites

Help support BirdForum

Page generated in 0.20820403 seconds with 22 queries
All times are GMT. The time now is 14:19.