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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

scope dilemma! (1 Viewer)

salty

salty

geordie birder
ok, these threads are ALWAYS popping up but - i want some of YOUR opinions please.

im after i new scope. and i have narrowed it down to 2 scopes.

zeiss 85FL

swarovski ATS 80 HD

yes, i have read loads of reviews, but i want some of your opinions and thoughts please. some real world reviews straight from the field if you like.....

i will also mentioned that i have previously owned the leica APO televid 77, that i sold to fund my new car, thats why im after a new scope. i really loved my leica, i could not fault it one bit, apart from being a tad heavy - it was flawless to me and is really missed.

i dont think it would be logical to buy the same scope again however, as there are other scopes out there as per the 2 scopes above that im interested in owning.

your comments please then, and dont worry about posting negatives from either scope - i want to here what these scope are really like - warts and all..........

thanks ;)
 
Salty,

If I was in your position I'd wait and see if anything new appears at the Birdfair in a couple of weeks.

Rich.
 
Richard Scott said:
Salty,

If I was in your position I'd wait and see if anything new appears at the Birdfair in a couple of weeks.

Rich.
Click to expand...

yep, im at the birdfair and will be asking questions about the next gen scopes, plus i will be doing comparisons to see what i fancy.
 
Hi:

I´ve got a Swarovski ATS 80 HD and I love it, bright, sharp in the middle and in the EDGE of the field of view. In my opinion the best.
 
salty said:
i will also mentioned that i have previously owned the leica APO televid 77, that i sold to fund my new car, thats why im after a new scope. i really loved my leica, i could not fault it one bit, apart from being a tad heavy - it was flawless to me and is really missed.
Click to expand...

If I were you I'd buy the Leica again - I have one and also love it, it's a truely exellent scope, and presumably at the time you prefered it to the Swaro and the Zeiss. That said I did see a good deal on a secondhand Zeiss 85fl today, left me half tempted to think about changing... but decided the safest thing was not to even look through it.

If weights an issue perhaps it's worth looking at the smaller versions of these scopes, they are also extremely good. I've talked to people who have changed from the Leica 77 to the 62, and they say there is very little difference even in poor light.

Something new might turn up at birdfair - if so I guess it will be from Leica as the Televid77 is the oldest of that group of scopes.
 
postie: the leica is still tempting, jacobs in newcastle are still doing the best deal that i have ever found.

http://www.jacobsdigital.co.uk/products.php?productId=9970

still only £950 for the APO televid 77 with 20 - 60x lockable zoom.

this is way cheaper than the other top end scopes. just the extra weight and size of the leica putting me off getting it again, compared to the other brands. still an awesome quality scope.
 
Last edited:
salty said:
postie: the leica is still tempting, jacobs in newcastle are still doing the best deal that i have ever found.

http://www.jacobsdigital.co.uk/products.php?productId=9970

still only £950 for the APO televid 77 with 20 - 60x lockable zoom.

this is way cheaper than the other top end scopes. just the extra weight and size of the leica putting me off getting it again, compared to the other brands. still an awesome quality scope.
Click to expand...

That's an excellent price for the Leica - must make it very hard to resist - I have to agree it is a bit on the heavy side, but optically it's super.

The secondhand Zeiss I saw today was £899 - for the 85fl with zoom and stay on case - looked like it hadn't been used - very very tempting...
 
I have an 20x - 60x ATS 80 HD which I like alot. It is sharp from center to edge, which I find more important in scopes than bins. The foot being sized to fit into the Bogen 3130 head also was a nice touch. With a smaller and lighter angled scope I was able to use a smaller tripod (now a Gitzo 1227) and really like my current scope setup. Its the lightest and steadiest I have ever had.

When I bought the Swaro I was looking to lose weight and downsize from a Pentax 80. Unfortunately a Zeiss 80FL was not available for comparison at the time. I'm sure I like the Swaro armoring over the Zeiss aluminum or green paint. The only complaints I have with the Swaro scope itself is the stiffness of the zoom and focusing rings.

If I had to do it again I would look at Zeiss (and probably Nikon) really really hard. Given the price differences these days I would probably pick the Zeiss even though I like the ergonomics of the Swaro better. I absolutely despise Swaros ever draconian pricing policy. After I first purchased the scope I asked them about a stayon case. They informed me I did not need one. Then, I guess they had enough complaints about it, so later they told me I could have one for $219. If I had been talking to the Austrian responsible for the price, I would immediately have informed them which orifice they could insert the case into, as well as how far.

The ATS 80 HD is now $400 more than when I purchased it. I have a few friends that have been thinking of replacing their aging equipment. Swaro and now Leica have priced themselves out of any consideration of these folks.
 
I have the Swarovski ATS80HD as you know Ritchie. No doubt about it is superb optically.

If I was in your position starting over, then I'm not sure which way I'd go either - however I'm 85% certain ;) it would be the Zeiss!

No doubt about it the Swarovski has bright crystal clear edge to edge optics and it's a nice compact 80 mm scope with armoured body. However a friend has the Zeiss 85mm and overall I prefer the view on that - the optics are just as good - bright and very crisp and it's not disimilar in size/weight. It doesn't have rubber armouring - but I'm not sure that really matters as even the Swarovski is in a SOC.

Biggest differences to me are the Zeiss has a larger light gathering objective, a very smooth easy to control focus control and very good zoom - especially so for digiscoping. With the Swarovski helical focus control you do have to grab the body which nudges the scope and in addition it is quite stiff to move. The locking eyepiece on the Swaro zoom is a good feature though the rotation control lock nut is a bit of a pain with the SOC in place as it forever needs retightening.

They're both superb scopes - but I think the Zeiss may have the edge!

It's hard to find optics retailers anywhere, let alone the north-east where you can have a close look at them together - we don't have any such retailers. I guess that's one of the big attractions of the Rutland Bird Fair where several brands can be examined/compared.

It's about time though there were a few offers on the go to those who do attend the Bird Fair. I recall the last one I attended two years ago when I was in the market for a Manfrotto tripod - their stand was charging 25% more than several opitcs retailers and wouldn't budge the slightest on the price.
 
salty said:
postie: the leica is still tempting, jacobs in newcastle are still doing the best deal that i have ever found.

http://www.jacobsdigital.co.uk/products.php?productId=9970

still only £950 for the APO televid 77 with 20 - 60x lockable zoom.

this is way cheaper than the other top end scopes. just the extra weight and size of the leica putting me off getting it again, compared to the other brands. still an awesome quality scope.
Click to expand...



one way of reducing the weight is to do some exercise..... push ups - sounds stupid but I do.... and I must admit it has helped. So not only do you get stronger you get fitter as well - god I helpful and caring am I.

So I say LEICA, LEICA, LEICA. (hope what ever you decide you get a real buzz out of using it - like I'm sure you will)


the Bird
 
you have more money than sense mate.

Have a look at the Leica APO 62, Swaro HD65, Nikon Fieldscope IIIED or the Zeiss 65 (there is an offer on w/e) on the fixed lens. My own preference is for the Leica but the Swaro is a fine scope. All very light and optically excellent.

I'm presuming you don't want to get into digiscoping.
 
Salty,

I am satisfied with my Zeiss 85 mm. FL, with a 30x eyepiece, but I have not used it much. I was capable of putting it and the tripod on my shoulder for a km. march. I also use the 'scope for astronomy and make use of the adapter for astronomical eyepieces. I think it would require something far heavier in the way of a tripod to work at 60x in a stiff breeze. So if you were thinking of the Zeiss zoom, you would either be restricted as to when to use maximum magnification, 60x, or would require something more substantial and less portable.
Optically, it is superb.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood
 
exellent replies guys!

i may try digiscoping, as im still unsure what/when to get a DSLR. so the practice would come in handy, plus i will still be able to record birds that i see. so the larger scopes are still important to me, plus i do tand to bird in all lights and weathers - and the extra light that the big boys suck in will no doubt come in very handy.

i have heard the swaro is exellent image wise right to the 'tips' of the lens, and that the zeiss although aledgedly brighter, is blurred on the lower mags?

as for weight, im sure both the swaro and zeiss are lighter than my last scope (APO77) so im not worried too much about that, plus i was a keen bodybuilder for 8yrs so i still have a little strengh left in me! and both scopes are shorter, witch is handy for when im carrying the scope in my backpack.


keep the replies coming please, and remember to add a few of your own pros and cons.......thanks.
 
rezMole said:
Well, I love the Leica APO 77 - but then, the girlfriend is the one who lugs it around!
Click to expand...


your scope was the love of my life!!! - look at the trouble it has caused now that im after a new one, lol ;)

no regrets of course, it went to a good owner - and i did get my car with the funds raised from it :cool:
 
salty said:
i have heard the swaro is exellent image wise right to the 'tips' of the lens, and that the zeiss although aledgedly brighter, is blurred on the lower mags?
Click to expand...

Hmm, I'm not sure I'd go so far as 'blurred'. I have the Zeiss 65 with zoom, but I think the principle is the same.

The image, especially at lower mags, is significantly wider than either the Swaro or the Leica, but in that extra area which the others don't have, the image does become slightly soft, up to about 20x mag.

You pays your money and takes your choice with this.

Personally I prefer to have the extra field of view. It helps locate birds, and then you can move them into the main field. Others prefer not to have this 'soft' area, and so go with scopes where it is masked off - the Swaro or Leica.

In other words, the so-called 'blurred' edges are actually a bonus for me, because they show an area I wouldn't see at all if I had a Leica or Swaro.

When I was looking for a top of the range scope, I was aiming at the Leica 62. But when I found a superb deal on the Zeiss it persuaded me to go for that. Having used it for 6 months I couldn't imagine wanting to swap.
 
i have to say the zeiss is now infront of the swaro, although i want to read more of your thoughts please, plus i will be doing some field tests myself when at the birdfair this month.
 
Check out the flare!

Hi Salty,

I was in a similar position a while back. To me it boiled down to image quality when viewing against the sun and the Swaro won hands down, (also noted in the Allula review). If that doesn't bother you either scope is excellent.
 
Hi Salty
I think if you are intending to digiscope with your A95 or a DSLR the focusing on the swaro may well hinder those quality shots you are after.

Robert
 
Hi Salty,

For digiscoping you will have to go a long way to beat the Leica Apo 77 / 32WW combo.

I know you have had a Leica before, but they seem to be a bit of a bargain at the moment (some excellent internet deals on) - as someone said earlier perhaps there is something in the offing at Birdfair!

At this end of the market I do not envy your decision - it's a really tough choice.


The locking eyepiece on the Swaro zoom is a good feature though the rotation control lock nut is a bit of a pain with the SOC in place as it forever needs retightening.
Click to expand...



The new Leica 77 has adopted the locking eyepiece mechanism from the 62, so this makes life easier with the zoom eyepieces.
 
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