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Zeiss Victory SF

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Old Friday 17th November 2017, 11:50   #26
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Old Friday 17th November 2017, 14:04   #27
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If you look at the teardown pictures of the top of the range Canon and Nikon cameras the main frames and mirror box/lens mounting points have always been magnesium as have the covers. Click to enlarge photos here:

http://www.fixyourcamera.org/canon-1dx/

Their mid range cameras are internally polycarbonate and where required CRP (carbon reinforced plastics) apart from the old Nikon D800 and current D850 which are all magnesium. The outer covers are all magnesium.

Current Canon L series lenses are typically a mix of polycarbonate and metal outers with plenty of metal inside.
Good if you drop it as the outer plastic deforms rather than cracks but clearly magnesium is the premium structural material now that it can be made in complex shapes without excessive machining.

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/201...k-ii-teardown/

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Old Friday 17th November 2017, 16:26   #28
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I'm just one of those ignoramuses who simply asks "Can I see the birds better with this one?"

Deciding which binocular to buy by reading or comparing specs is not the best way.
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Old Friday 17th November 2017, 16:32   #29
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Jerry has a lot of experience of binos and is well respected on the forum, but even a diamond can have flaws......

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Lee,
And that is the one thing I love with people like Jerry who have heaps of experience vs us young ones. They stuff the political “niceties”. They just get straight to the point. So that allows one self to spend more time birding, discussing the best bino, watching Sir David Attenbrough or what ever tickle ones fancy.
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Old Friday 17th November 2017, 16:57   #30
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Hi All

I am on the cusp of buying some Zeiss Victory SF 10 x 42, but the only thing that is holding me back is a number of reviews I have read that suggests that the build quality is not up to scratch for such a high end bin.

Could any Zeiss Victory users on the forum please confirm or dispell that rumour?

Many thanks

MacHector
Here's my take....
I don't think the build quality of the SF is the best when compared to some of its peers. I'm not really sure it MATTERS though. It's certainly built well ENOUGH. I don't think you'll wear it out! The reason to purchase an SF is because of it's optical features....all at the top of the class for a birding binocular.

If purchasing NEW, I'd probably be sure to get a black SF.....
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Old Friday 17th November 2017, 17:11   #31
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Here's my take....
I don't think the build quality of the SF is the best when compared to some of its peers. I'm not really sure it MATTERS though. It's certainly built well ENOUGH. I don't think you'll wear it out! The reason to purchase an SF is because of it's optical features....all at the top of the class for a birding binocular.

If purchasing NEW, I'd probably be sure to get a black SF.....
What faults did the grey SF's have versus the newer black SF's? Thanks.
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Old Friday 17th November 2017, 17:32   #32
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How many times have you dropped your binoculars on the eye cups and had to replace them? I have never dropped any of my binoculars. An eye cup get's used a lot going in and out and in my experience metal will last longer and is smoother because it can me machined more precisely to closer tolerances. I will take metal eye cups and a magnesium body on my binocular over plastic any day.
Plastic can have its own advantages.

From the Zeiss sport optics website:


Questions & Answers

Why is polycarbonate used for the housing of the Victory FL binoculars?

The advantage of the housing material used is that it reacts flexibly to impacts and temperature fluctuations. It is nevertheless extremely sturdy and very light.
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Old Friday 17th November 2017, 19:11   #33
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If you want the best birding binocular with the largest FOV the Zeiss SF is it. Instead of criticizing it for all the things it isn't we should appreciate it for what it is.
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Old Friday 17th November 2017, 19:20   #34
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What faults did the grey SF's have versus the newer black SF's? Thanks.
Improved/smoother focus, extra click in eyecup adjustment, who knows what else?
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Old Friday 17th November 2017, 19:58   #35
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Improved/smoother focus, extra click in eyecup adjustment, who knows what else?
Thanks.
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Old Friday 17th November 2017, 20:23   #36
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What faults did the grey SF's have versus the newer black SF's? Thanks.
None really. The gray model eye cup has one intermediate postion and the black model has two. All else on the eye cup looks the same. The new eye cup is a direct replacement and so a simple call to Zeiss and the gray model can be owner updated to the new eye cup in a matter of minutes.

Zeiss somewhere during the second have of the production run of the gray models imroved the machining tolerances of the focus mechanism. Some but not all of the earlier gray models had some degree of stiction (but not as much as the pre Profield Swaros). This improvement carried over into the black model change. Anyone who bought a late model gray should have the same focus feel as the black. If not, then it can be sent to Zeiss for improvement just as some do with the Swaro.

The third change is switching the armor from black to gray and I think the surface feel is also a little different and it may feel thicker. I do not look at this as an improvement but as a styling change. I prerfer the gray because it has a noticeably cooler surface temperature out here in the AZ desert during a summer afternoon. It works for me because I am dumb enough to sometimes wonder about at that time of the year. The gray is more likely to show dirt than the black but I have not found it to be a problem.

The gray sold out on clearance for as much as $1,300 below the new black model. Other than the color, the gray could be udpdated to be the same as the black for free. I do remember coming across a person who was considering an SF saying they did not like the gray color and would not buy it on clearance even with that kind of savings. My thought was how short sighted since it probably could have been sent to Zeiss for new black armor even if it cost say $100 or so. Oh well.


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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
If you want the best birding binocular with the largest FOV the Zeiss SF is it. Instead of criticizing it for all the things it isn't we should appreciate it for what it is.
Thumbs up on that post.

I agree with you on the first part and really like the second part!
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Old Friday 17th November 2017, 20:31   #37
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And I thought someone had proclaimed the 'Alpha' to be dead... funny how the winds of change howl through this forum...;-)
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Old Friday 17th November 2017, 21:39   #38
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None really. The gray model eye cup has one intermediate postion and the black model has two. All else on the eye cup looks the same. The new eye cup is a direct replacement and so a simple call to Zeiss and the gray model can be owner updated to the new eye cup in a matter of minutes.

Zeiss somewhere during the second have of the production run of the gray models imroved the machining tolerances of the focus mechanism. Some but not all of the earlier gray models had some degree of stiction (but not as much as the pre Profield Swaros). This improvement carried over into the black model change. Anyone who bought a late model gray should have the same focus feel as the black. If not, then it can be sent to Zeiss for improvement just as some do with the Swaro.

The third change is switching the armor from black to gray and I think the surface feel is also a little different and it may feel thicker. I do not look at this as an improvement but as a styling change. I prerfer the gray because it has a noticeably cooler surface temperature out here in the AZ desert during a summer afternoon. It works for me because I am dumb enough to sometimes wonder about at that time of the year. The gray is more likely to show dirt than the black but I have not found it to be a problem.

The gray sold out on clearance for as much as $1,300 below the new black model. Other than the color, the gray could be udpdated to be the same as the black for free. I do remember coming across a person who was considering an SF saying they did not like the gray color and would not buy it on clearance even with that kind of savings. My thought was how short sighted since it probably could have been sent to Zeiss for new black armor even if it cost say $100 or so. Oh well.




Thumbs up on that post.

I agree with you on the first part and really like the second part!
Bruce:

You have summed up the Zeiss SF very well, it is at the top of class.

That is why I get a little miffed with some who like to just criticize without
much positive to say about it. Appreciating a quality binocular is not
hard, just takes some time.

I should not get so thin skinned, but sometimes, I can't help myself.

Jerry
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Old Friday 17th November 2017, 22:18   #39
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Here's my take....
I don't think the build quality of the SF is the best when compared to some of its peers. I'm not really sure it MATTERS though. It's certainly built well ENOUGH. I don't think you'll wear it out! The reason to purchase an SF is because of it's optical features....all at the top of the class for a birding binocular.

If purchasing NEW, I'd probably be sure to get a black SF.....
Well said Chuck



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Old Friday 17th November 2017, 22:31   #40
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And I thought someone had proclaimed the 'Alpha' to be dead... funny how the winds of change howl through this forum...;-)
My point with "The Death of the Alpha" thread was that there a lot of binoculars on the market now that will match most of the alpha's performance for a lot less money. For most people it doesn't make sense to spend $2500.00 for a binocular but to those people where price in not an object and they have to have that few extra feet of FOV or smidgen of brightness then go for it. The SF is kind of in a class by itself for a roof with a 442 FOV. Maven or Tract don't make anything with that wide of a FOV. If they did I would be first in line for one. Only some porro's like a Nikon E2 get up to those big of FOV's. The SF is kind of a "Super Alpha" when it comes to FOV.

Last edited by [email protected] : Saturday 18th November 2017 at 01:34.
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Old Friday 17th November 2017, 22:37   #41
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None really ..... The third change is switching the armor from black to gray and I think the surface feel is also a little different and it may feel thicker. I do not look at this as an improvement but as a styling change. I prerfer the gray because it has a noticeably cooler surface temperature out here in the AZ desert during a summer afternoon. It works for me because I am dumb enough to sometimes wonder about at that time of the year. The gray is more likely to show dirt than the black but I have not found it to be a problem.

The gray sold out on clearance for as much as $1,300 below the new black model. Other than the color, the gray could be udpdated to be the same as the black for free. I do remember coming across a person who was considering an SF saying they did not like the gray color and would not buy it on clearance even with that kind of savings. My thought was how short sighted since it probably could have been sent to Zeiss for new black armor even if it cost say $100 or so. Oh well .....
Good post all round Bruce

At stupid extremes of temperature, solar radiation and heat soak, that has got to pay off optically - though by then most 'sensible' people would be in air-conditioned comfort having a cold beverage!

Those that picked up the gray model on clearance did well - that's a more sensible price for a binocular



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Old Friday 17th November 2017, 23:29   #42
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And I thought someone had proclaimed the 'Alpha' to be dead... funny how the winds of change howl through this forum...;-)
From my standpoint, it was never born. It was created for folks to know some people were aficionados.

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Old Saturday 18th November 2017, 07:20   #43
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Lee,
And that is the one thing I love with people like Jerry who have heaps of experience vs us young ones. They stuff the political “niceties”. They just get straight to the point. So that allows one self to spend more time birding, discussing the best bino, watching Sir David Attenbrough or what ever tickle ones fancy.
SBB
The talent to say a lot in a few words, to be succinct, is a great one and when it is backed up by a wealth of field experience it adds greatly to the Forum. When this degenerates into a 'I tell it like it is, and couldn't care less about anyone elses experience or feelings' then it isn't welcome in our Bird Forum community. Most people here do care about other members and there is a terrific will to help others and give advice and information. This is one reason why the Forum has over 250,000 registered members and is the biggest of its kind in the world.

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Old Saturday 18th November 2017, 07:31   #44
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Bruce:

You have summed up the Zeiss SF very well, it is at the top of class.

That is why I get a little miffed with some who like to just criticize without
much positive to say about it. Appreciating a quality binocular is not
hard, just takes some time.

I should not get so thin skinned, but sometimes, I can't help myself.

Jerry
Jerry

It is indeed irritating when what you consider to be important attributes of a bino get dismissed or go unmentioned by someone who appears to have spent hardly any time with it. But we all have different priorities and tastes and sometimes folks don't get the opportunity to try binos out in decent circumstances. Even the British Bird Fair doesn't always provide good conditions for trialling binos especially on the busiest days when folks are crowding around you while you try to hold a new model of binos steady.

And there is nothing wrong with being thin-skinned if it motivates you to post how your experience and assessment of a bino differs from someone else's, all it takes is to always assume that folks have the best of intentions and to word your replies to them accordingly.

Did you notice that Dennis came up with a great observation? He was talking about SF but it applies to all binos and he said we should appreciate them for what they are and not get obsessed with what they aren't. This is sage advice because for sure, no bino is perfect.

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Old Saturday 18th November 2017, 09:00   #45
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I am considering to buy my first top class binos. The new Zeiss is one of the possibilities. Is in this high quality range a 10x better than a 8x for birding?

I use it very often to watch bird migration. Less in woodlands. I always feel the necessity to see as much details of birds to identify them.
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Old Saturday 18th November 2017, 09:18   #46
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SB

This is one reason why the Forum has over 250,000 registered members and is the biggest of its kind in the world.

Lee
Under "How to cancel an account" it is stated that "There is normally no need to cancel a Birdforum account. If you expect not to need to post at Birdforum, you can simply stop visiting our site. There is nothing you need us to do.", so the 250,00 figure probably over estimates the number o active members.
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Old Saturday 18th November 2017, 09:32   #47
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I am considering to buy my first top class binos. The new Zeiss is one of the possibilities. Is in this high quality range a 10x better than a 8x for birding?

I use it very often to watch bird migration. Less in woodlands. I always feel the necessity to see as much details of birds to identify them.
Opinions differ on this aspect.
Some want the extra detail the 10x provides, other feel they get a more comfortably stable view in the 8x. The SF has a wider than usual FoV, so the 10x image is not as restricted as most 10x glasses, which is easier on the eyes for some.
Given the expense of the glass, you probably need to test them out side by side to be sure of your choice. Bird fairs are usually pretty good places for that kind of research, unless you have a very accommodating shop nearby.
The other option is to order both from Amazon and send back the one you don't want.
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Old Saturday 18th November 2017, 10:01   #48
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Under "How to cancel an account" it is stated that "There is normally no need to cancel a Birdforum account. If you expect not to need to post at Birdforum, you can simply stop visiting our site. There is nothing you need us to do.", so the 250,00 figure probably over estimates the number o active members.
Yes it does. But members become inactive for many different reasons and some return after a gap of weeks, months and years. And of course some folks pass away too. On the other hand you don't have to be a member to visit the site and read all the different forums and contributions including everything that takes place on the bino forum. As a non-member you can't post but then the vast majority of visitors don't post anyway. For example PeterPS's review of a GPO has had more than 9,000 hits but only 78 posts, and one of my old reviews had about 25 members posting on it but had over 12,000 hits the last time I looked.

So yes the number of 'active' registered members is less than 250,000 but this is undoubtedly augmented by many regular visitors who aren't registered because they don't wish to post.

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Old Saturday 18th November 2017, 16:00   #49
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I am considering to buy my first top class binos. The new Zeiss is one of the possibilities. Is in this high quality range a 10x better than a 8x for birding?

I use it very often to watch bird migration. Less in woodlands. I always feel the necessity to see as much details of birds to identify them.
I would try them both but if you are ordering try the 8x first. It will give you a bigger FOV , more DOF, easier eye placement and most importantly it will be easier to hold steady than the 10x. 10x can be hard to hold steady and any detail advantage it gives you can be lost to shaking unless you have IS.(Image Stabilization). IMO 8x42 is the ideal birding binocular.
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Old Saturday 18th November 2017, 16:15   #50
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Slipymor

Dennis is right about the details that are revealed by 10x magnification can be lost due to the unsteadiness of the image. Remember that this 'bino-shake' can be caused by both your own unsteadiness and by the wind shaking and buffeting your arms and body, and, if you have had to run or climb a steep hill even your heartbeat can add to this.

I find I can hold Zeiss SF steadier than some other 10x but other brands can be as steady. Do give 10x a good trial before you buy.

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