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Rock climbers respect notice not to climb in sensitive area (1 Viewer)

T

trw

Well-known member
We are very fortunate round here to have several breeding Peregrine Falcon pairs and I see them regularly, coming down to hunt on the nearby estuary. Last week I saw two adults feeding side by side on the estuary in exactly the same spot two days running.
Yesterday I took a walk near a huge cliff-face. At the beginning of the path, there's a sign asking rock climbers not to climb in the area, due to the possibility of disturbing breeding birds.
As far as I'm aware the request is respected. I've yet to see anyone rock climbing there.
Peregrine Falcons have been here for years and yesterday I saw an adult and juvenile on the cliff face.
 
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delia todd said:
Let's hope so Pratincol.

Back in 2011 I was at Warton Crag, in the breeding season, and two guys were climbing the rock. Couldn't believe what they were up to. See my post here: https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?p=2207104#post2207104
Click to expand...
Very sad.
I'm not sure what restrictions there are at Warton Crag or if there are any signs about rock climbing.
I've always been pleasantly surprised that rock climbers have taken heed at the site I'm talking about.
There's another place locally which I don't visit that often, with a sign requesting people not to climb during the breeding season. One of the rock climbers, instrumental in installing the sign, asked me if it was being obeyed.
I told her that whenever I'd been there I'd not seen anyone climbing the rock face.
 
I wish photographers would follow the same standards for respect, non-intrusion, and non-disturbance of peregrines, other raptors, and all manner of birds.

I am just seeing an explosion of shots all over the Web which are obviously invading birds territories - sometimes coinciding with the breeding cycle, and otherwise just getting so close to birds as to scare them off perches or provoke territorial responses - all leading to a wasted calorific effort.

And my other pet peeve - obviously "baited" birds in order to get 'close ups' ..... from kites to sea eagles - cannot stand the people who then pat themselves on the back for their great shots all at the expense of the poor bird's right to unaffected natural behaviors. Grrrr :storm:

After watching the "Life in the Air: Master of the Sky" episode, it is clear that peregrines view all manner of intruders as a disturbing threat. https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=368711




Chosun :gh:
 
Chosun Juan said:
I wish photographers would follow the same standards for respect, non-intrusion, and non-disturbance of peregrines, other raptors, and all manner of birds.

I am just seeing an explosion of shots all over the Web which are obviously invading birds territories - sometimes coinciding with the breeding cycle, and otherwise just getting so close to birds as to scare them off perches or provoke territorial responses - all leading to a wasted calorific effort.

And my other pet peeve - obviously "baited" birds in order to get 'close ups' ..... from kites to sea eagles - cannot stand the people who then pat themselves on the back for their great shots all at the expense of the poor bird's right to unaffected natural behaviors. Grrrr :storm:

After watching the "Life in the Air: Master of the Sky" episode, it is clear that peregrines view all manner of intruders as a disturbing threat. https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=368711




Chosun :gh:
Click to expand...

I assume you don't have a bird table and have never photographed birds in your garden, planted particular things to attract butterflies and moths etc.... basically, food for photos is a fair swap.

John
 
Farnboro John said:
I assume you don't have a bird table and have never photographed birds in your garden, planted particular things to attract butterflies and moths etc.... basically, food for photos is a fair swap.

John
Click to expand...
No bird table (whatever that is ! :) - do you mean feeder? ugh .... But I'm all for restoring your plot to indigenous native composition and structure, including water elements as appropriate and size allowing (streams, ponds, marshes, etc), along with other native, or the odd non-invasive exotic plants. I'm also all for accelerated old growth augmentation - natural hollows (aerial and terrestrial) etc.

Do all that, and you'll have birds feeding, sheltering, nesting, migrating, etc, at your place all year round. I make no comment on places that are snow bound etc during winter - I imagine some supplimentary feeding there may be prudent .... I'm sure folks here in those particular areas have thrashed that one to death already :)

98% of the photos I have taken (garden and elsewhere), the subject was never aware - the other 2% I have kicked myself over and endeavored to do better. Much much better - even if it means no photo.

I have never deliberately set out to artificially entice subjects - frozen mullet (or whatever) on the water.

I will admit though to involuntarily providing the odd seagull with a hot chip - but I assure you no photographs were taken ! :) :-O




Chosun :gh:
 
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Farnboro John said:
I assume you don't have a bird table and have never photographed birds in your garden, planted particular things to attract butterflies and moths etc.... basically, food for photos is a fair swap.

John
Click to expand...

John, are you saying you support "baiting" for raptor photos? I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone support that, especially in the case of owls (e.g Great Gray).

I will say that I feed birds in winter and enjoy it very much. I don't see a problem with feeding songbirds or with the occasional seabird chumming, but I'm not convinced that baiting raptors is a good idea.
 
Chosun Juan said:
I wish photographers would follow the same standards for respect, non-intrusion, and non-disturbance of peregrines, other raptors, and all manner of birds.
Click to expand...
I'm afraid bird photograpy has attracted a lof of people with a mostly hunting/competitive mindset rather than appreciation for the environment.

Three years ago I visited Monfragüe and there were several photomaniacs in the group. It was funny to see them in the bus, preparing their equipment. It was like a Rambo movie with detail shots of a knife sharpening, tightening boot laces, etc.

And their behavior was really disgusting. Running and getting in front of the line of scopes, even disturbing vegetation while people with scopes stayed at a respectful distance, and so on.
 
Chosun Juan said:
No bird table (whatever that is ! :) - do you mean feeder? ugh .... But I'm all for restoring your plot to indigenous native composition and structure, including water elements as appropriate and size allowing (streams, ponds, marshes, etc), along with other native, or the odd non-invasive exotic plants. I'm also all for accelerated old growth augmentation - natural hollows (aerial and terrestrial) etc.

Do all that, and you'll have birds feeding, sheltering, nesting, migrating, etc, at your place all year round. I make no comment on places that are snow bound etc during winter - I imagine some supplimentary feeding there may be prudent .... I'm sure folks here in those particular areas have thrashed that one to death already :)

98% of the photos I have taken (garden and elsewhere), the subject was never aware - the other 2% I have kicked myself over and endeavored to do better. Much much better - even if it means no photo.

I have never deliberately set out to artificially entice subjects - frozen mullet (or whatever) on the water.

I will admit though to involuntarily providing the odd seagull with a hot chip - but I assure you no photographs were taken ! :) :-O

Chosun :gh:
Click to expand...

Your comments suggest a very limited appreciation of the heavily populated anthropogenic landscapes in the British Isles and many parts of north west Europe, at least. What you describe might well be great advice for somebody who owns a few thousand hectares of Australian bush, but when your plot is a microscopic suburban garden of a few square metres, "water elements" tend to be more along the lines of upturned dustbin lids rather than streams and marshes, "old-growth" a manky privet hedge, and bird feeders / tables (I'm sure you can guess...) provide a valuable source of food for many species.

Assuming birds aren't exposed to harm or disturbance, I find it quite bizarre that anybody objects to the practice of attracting birds with food or water, either for photography or simply the pleasure of seeing them in your garden. Certainly the birds don't.

As for rock climbing, as a former climber myself, I think it's fair to say that most climbers are quite environmentally aware, and readily appreciate the need to avoid disturbing cliff-nesting birds. If nothing else, there is an element of self-interest in voluntary seasonal bans, as they reduce the risk of permanent year-round bans being imposed.

Of course, as with any activity, there will always be a few selfish idiots, but I think it's a very small minority of climbers, and they are quite likely to be dealt with by other climbers if word gets out.
 
Chosun Juan said:
.... But I'm all for restoring your plot to indigenous native composition and structure, including water elements as appropriate and size allowing (streams, ponds, marshes, etc), along with other native, or the odd non-invasive exotic plants. I'm also all for accelerated old growth augmentation - natural hollows (aerial and terrestrial) etc.

Do all that, and you'll have birds feeding, sheltering, nesting, migrating, etc, at your place all year round. I make no comment on places that are snow bound etc during winter - I imagine some supplimentary feeding there may be prudent .... I'm sure folks here in those particular areas have thrashed that one to death already :)
Click to expand...
DMW said:
Your comments suggest a very limited appreciation of the heavily populated anthropogenic landscapes in the British Isles and many parts of north west Europe, at least. What you describe might well be great advice for somebody who owns a few thousand hectares of Australian bush, but when your plot is a microscopic suburban garden of a few square metres, "water elements" tend to be more along the lines of upturned dustbin lids rather than streams and marshes, "old-growth" a manky privet hedge, and bird feeders / tables (I'm sure you can guess...) provide a valuable source of food for many species.

Assuming birds aren't exposed to harm or disturbance, I find it quite bizarre that anybody objects to the practice of attracting birds with food or water, either for photography or simply the pleasure of seeing them in your garden. Certainly the birds don't.

As for rock climbing, as a former climber myself, I think it's fair to say that most climbers are quite environmentally aware, and readily appreciate the need to avoid disturbing cliff-nesting birds. If nothing else, there is an element of self-interest in voluntary seasonal bans, as they reduce the risk of permanent year-round bans being imposed.

Of course, as with any activity, there will always be a few selfish idiots, but I think it's a very small minority of climbers, and they are quite likely to be dealt with by other climbers if word gets out.
Click to expand...

Garrrrggggh ! where to begin ?

I'd suggest the only limits to my appreciation are the assumptions you make about them from the misunderstandings of your comprehension. Though I will admit that I'm a bit puzzled sometimes as to the seemingly adversarial nature of British inhabitants. I have highlighted in bold the relevant parts for the acreage challenged.

For the record I spent about a decade rehabilitating a small property of ~25 acres which had latitude for creeks, marshes, ephemeral wetlands etc. I recorded over ~150 species there including a Brolga which visited for a sum total of ~3 hrs in the entire decade, one morning after a flood event. I currently reside on a 1/4 acre suburban fringe block which I have rewilded - I have nesting Satin Bowerbirds, Eastern Whipbirds, bl**dy possums in the roof, and have seen a 6ft goanna casually strolling through the back yard which freaked the neighbours out no end. I have transformed several of these 1/4 acre plots which saw 100's of honeyeaters make pitstops there on their northerly migrations.

I am well aware of the number of folk living on land half that size, 1/16th of an acre or even 1/32nd. There is no reason that 2,4,8, or more neighbour's couldn't band together to provide a more natural landscape. If you've only got 2 square yds then so be it - bird feeder and upturned dustbin lid it might be [the etc] :)

I realize that tree hollows might not be as essential in other countries as they are here, but there's lots of other nesting materials you can provide, bee hotels etc, and plantings to support the entire web of life. The only point I was making is that a wilder landscape beyond your experience (or even imagination for some) is possible, and such a natural diet is always preferable.

Glad the rock climbing community provides a degree of self policing.




Chosun :gh:
 
Chosun Juan said:
Garrrrggggh ! where to begin ?

I'd suggest the only limits to my appreciation are the assumptions you make about them from the misunderstandings of your comprehension. Though I will admit that I'm a bit puzzled sometimes as to the seemingly adversarial nature of British inhabitants. I have highlighted in bold the relevant parts for the acreage challenged.

For the record I spent about a decade rehabilitating a small property of ~25 acres which had latitude for creeks, marshes, ephemeral wetlands etc. I recorded over ~150 species there including a Brolga which visited for a sum total of ~3 hrs in the entire decade, one morning after a flood event. I currently reside on a 1/4 acre suburban fringe block which I have rewilded - I have nesting Satin Bowerbirds, Eastern Whipbirds, bl**dy possums in the roof, and have seen a 6ft goanna casually strolling through the back yard which freaked the neighbours out no end. I have transformed several of these 1/4 acre plots which saw 100's of honeyeaters make pitstops there on their northerly migrations.

I am well aware of the number of folk living on land half that size, 1/16th of an acre or even 1/32nd. There is no reason that 2,4,8, or more neighbour's couldn't band together to provide a more natural landscape. If you've only got 2 square yds then so be it - bird feeder and upturned dustbin lid it might be [the etc] :)

I realize that tree hollows might not be as essential in other countries as they are here, but there's lots of other nesting materials you can provide, bee hotels etc, and plantings to support the entire web of life. The only point I was making is that a wilder landscape beyond your experience (or even imagination for some) is possible, and such a natural diet is always preferable.

Glad the rock climbing community provides a degree of self policing.




Chosun :gh:
Click to expand...

You clearly have no idea at all of the difference between your continent and our crowded island, or for that matter the people who live here.

My garden is 40 feet by 20 feet. Outside it stands a large weeping willow - dead. It was alive till a couple of years ago when the idle hands of children peeled all the bark off its base with the efficiency of a bored horse for no better reason than it was there and they were sitting in its shade. Its ghost will not be allowed to hollow out and provide tree holes lest it drop a revengeful limb on a human and injure or kill them. Needless to say, these are the children of my neighbours.... such is urban living in Britain. I haven't told the council it's dead so I may squeeze a few years of it providing perches yet before they remove it.

Within my bounds, the destructive youth being kept at bay by a six foot brick shed and stout wooden gate, is a large Buddleia that the local insects love and the local birds use as a feeding station (feeding on the insects). Holly berries grow from the trees along the right hand fence, prickly branches blocking access over it or passage along it by the local cats.

It's safe enough from the locals to run a moth trap overnight. Those insects attracted but not in the trap get nobbled by the local birds before I'm even up, which seems fair enough for them.

Out the front I have damn-all space: a six foot by twelve foot brick-edged raised bed and then council grass - for fifteen feet out to the flagstones and tarmac of the communal paths between the terraced houses - that is mowed regularly by them from a quad-bike mower (I am a freeholder in a council estate). At least that gives me a clear space and field of fire to feed and photograph my local foxes: the neighbours are amusedly tolerant since most British citizens actually like foxes - certainly our neighbours do as we have had to deal with occasional rat incursions from the brook behind the houses, and the foxes as well as the local cats help to keep them down. (The worst rat explosion was caused by a pleasant but old and not totally with it couple putting out far too much birdfood: it took us over a year to deal with it completely).

I don't have a bird feeder at all. I haven't got a big enough place to put one far enough away from all the places a cat can pounce from.

But the idea of the neighbours "joining together" for nature - these are lager drinking football watchers running white van businesses from home. Forget it! I am thankful they treat me as a sort of mascot eccentric of the street and tolerate the things I can do with the space.

This is not atypical. Many many square miles of Britain are like this (and with similar inhabitants) or even worse: and new developments pay no more than lip service to the concept of gardens and green spaces, as the island becomes more and more crammed.

For which reason, those of us with access to reserve feeders, bait sites, vulture restaurants, chumming boats, seed put down for rarities etc, take full advantage. Photos for food is a fair swap.

Reading this back it does come across a bit polemical, like. But you really ought to find out a bit more about Britain before holding forth about what's possible and what isn't. Come here and you'll quickly realise you're not in Kansas any more.

John
 
Jos Stratford said:
Ever thought of moving John?
Click to expand...

Frequently, if you mean within Britain - though the lottery numbers remain elusive - but unlike you, I remain of the opinion that abroad is a nice place to visit rather than dwell. I maintain the Englishman's right to moan about everything from Government to weather, but this is my home, I love it dearly and here I stay. :t:

John
 
Farnboro John said:
You clearly have no idea at all of the difference between your continent and our crowded island, or for that matter the people who live here.

My garden is 40 feet by 20 feet. Outside it stands a large weeping willow - dead. It was alive till a couple of years ago when the idle hands of children peeled all the bark off its base with the efficiency of a bored horse for no better reason than it was there and they were sitting in its shade. Its ghost will not be allowed to hollow out and provide tree holes lest it drop a revengeful limb on a human and injure or kill them. Needless to say, these are the children of my neighbours.... such is urban living in Britain. I haven't told the council it's dead so I may squeeze a few years of it providing perches yet before they remove it.

Within my bounds, the destructive youth being kept at bay by a six foot brick shed and stout wooden gate, is a large Buddleia that the local insects love and the local birds use as a feeding station (feeding on the insects). Holly berries grow from the trees along the right hand fence, prickly branches blocking access over it or passage along it by the local cats.

It's safe enough from the locals to run a moth trap overnight. Those insects attracted but not in the trap get nobbled by the local birds before I'm even up, which seems fair enough for them.

Out the front I have damn-all space: a six foot by twelve foot brick-edged raised bed and then council grass - for fifteen feet out to the flagstones and tarmac of the communal paths between the terraced houses - that is mowed regularly by them from a quad-bike mower (I am a freeholder in a council estate). At least that gives me a clear space and field of fire to feed and photograph my local foxes: the neighbours are amusedly tolerant since most British citizens actually like foxes - certainly our neighbours do as we have had to deal with occasional rat incursions from the brook behind the houses, and the foxes as well as the local cats help to keep them down. (The worst rat explosion was caused by a pleasant but old and not totally with it couple putting out far too much birdfood: it took us over a year to deal with it completely).

I don't have a bird feeder at all. I haven't got a big enough place to put one far enough away from all the places a cat can pounce from.

But the idea of the neighbours "joining together" for nature - these are lager drinking football watchers running white van businesses from home. Forget it! I am thankful they treat me as a sort of mascot eccentric of the street and tolerate the things I can do with the space.

This is not atypical. Many many square miles of Britain are like this (and with similar inhabitants) or even worse: and new developments pay no more than lip service to the concept of gardens and green spaces, as the island becomes more and more crammed.

For which reason, those of us with access to reserve feeders, bait sites, vulture restaurants, chumming boats, seed put down for rarities etc, take full advantage. Photos for food is a fair swap.

Reading this back it does come across a bit polemical, like. But you really ought to find out a bit more about Britain before holding forth about what's possible and what isn't. Come here and you'll quickly realise you're not in Kansas any more.

John
Click to expand...
LOL ! :-O That was actually very funny :)

Obviously the terraces are a challenging environment in any country, and I assure you I understand that particular urban landform well. As I do the inhabitants of your crowded island (their ancestors came here and stole this country - remember? introducing a "wonderful" array of new wildlife such as your beloved foxes, rats, and cats, etc, as well as a few other "helpful" practices such as clearing woodlands, draining wetlands, building terraced housing etc, etc ........ :(

40ft x 20ft is plenty - if you are going to be a "mascot eccentric" then you might as well go all the way! :)

Somebody has got to start somewhere, unless you mob are happy with more of the same ..... ?

If you can't co-opt the neighbours (perhaps host a beer and birdlife day :) and inspire n edukat the local yoof, then you may have to install "feral" proof fencing to keep them and the cats away !

Should I ever need a holiday from "Kansas" and want to see your wonderful wildlife - foxes, rats, cats, and vulture restaurants, etc - I'll be sure to pop over ! :-O




Chosun :gh:
 
Paul Chapman said:
I've certainly heard that supported:-

http://finnature.com/articles/how-to-photograph-a-hunting-hawk-owl/

By the way, Finnature do an exceptional amount of habitat management, nest box provision, monitoring, etc.

All the best
Click to expand...

Wow! Very interesting and thanks for posting, Paul. Can't say I'm a fan of it, but I'm glad to hear of all their helpful work.

And I would like to reiterate that having a nearly wild yard in a suburban area with neighbors all around is very challenging, unless you're fine with being on bad terms with a good number of them.
 
Chosun Juan said:
Should I ever need a holiday from "Kansas" and want to see your wonderful wildlife - foxes, rats, cats, and vulture restaurants, etc - I'll be sure to pop over ! :-O




Chosun :gh:
Click to expand...

You will be very welcome and I will try to show you some of the worthwhile bits we have left in between the urban sprawl. You could even "Meet the Foxes"! :t:

John
 
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